Hi All - New 1858 Owner Questions

[Springbok_Rider]

Hi,

I've been doing a lot of research over the last few weeks and finally purchased my first black powder revolver - a Pietta 1858 (blued steel with ivory grips). This forum has helped many so thought I'd sign up to ask questions and one day pass the buck. I'll try not to ask any questions that can be found through research. However, I do have a couple:

1) When pulling the hammer to half cock, and then proceeding to full cock there is a moment of friction like the hammer is catching on a bur or something before it goes to full cock. It's not too obvious and may just be the way the mechanism is designed - is this normal? When going straight to full cock there is no friction other than the usual clicks.

2) I've wiped down the gun as it came pretty oiled up - removed any gunk from the nipples and cylinder, sprayed with ballistol and wiped down, and also put oil on the nipple threads before putting them back into the cylinder. Are there any recommended first gun steps to ensure smooth operation - i.e. removing all the mechanism parts and using an emory cloth to remove burs and such? If there is a known guide that would be helpful.

3) Is there a good way to check the timing of the cylinder, and make sure the barrel and cyclinder line up perfectly. Visually it seems fine - waiting on Swiss and PNF black powder in the post so haven't fired it yet.

4) Lastly, I've ordered a powder tube with a 30 grain measuring spout. Is it generally considered a bad idea to pour straight into the cyclinders from the flask? Seems to be a split consensus with most people saying it's primarily just an issue for loading rifles.

Thanks,
Antony

 

[rodwha]

Repros can have burrs and such. My Pietta needed the hand and stop smoothed a bit as it was eating into my cylinder. The hammer doesn't fit solidly into the safety notches either so I filed the hammer a bit to fit much better.

Anti sieze for spark plugs works great on the nipples. I'm not sure oil is a long term good solution.

You may want to try out Olde Eynsford by Goex as it's a domestic powder created to give Swiss a run for the money and is much cheaper with similar results. I like it.

I, too, have heard loading from the flask is more of a rifle issue, but I'd say it's probably best to be safer. I use an adjustable powder measure.

 

[D. Buck Stopshere]

Welcome to the Forum, first of all.

I've sold Remington repro revolvers since 1972, and I always instructed my customers to shoot a hundred rounds through it before making any major refinements. New guns are like new shoes; they need a "breaking in period". That may cover questions number one and two.

It's important to know the functionality of the firearm before considering polishing or removing metal from parts. If you take too much off a part, such as the hand, (pushes the cylinder around), it screws up the timing of the revolver.

The trigger, hammer, bolt, hand, hand spring, bolt spring, mainspring are all interdependent upon each other to bring the gun into firing position. Mess one up and the gun stops "delivering the goods".

Get with a gunsmith familiar with single action revolvers, to ask for advice before doing the work yourself. There is a reason for him to charge $50 and up to smooth the action on a SA revolver.

For instance, the hand is the last part to be removed to have any metal removed. So after taking a little off, the entire revolver has to be reassembled to determine if the work was successful. If not, the gun must be completely disassembled again, and the process is repeated. It's not unusual for a gunsmith to have to disassemble and reassemble a revolver a half dozen times(or more) to accurately time a revolver.

For question number 3, it's easy to take a small flashlight and shine it down the barrel into each cylinder chamber to notice the nipple hole is centered for proper alignment. Others here may have a better method for alignment.

There's little danger of pouring powder from a flask, although serious competition shooters like myself will always ensure safety by pouring powder from a flask or powder can, fitted with a pour spout/valve, into an adjustable powder measure. Then pour the powder from the measure into the cylinder, which has been removed from the revolver.

Using a cylinder press from Powder,Inc (www.powderinc.com), powder is poured from the measure, cream of wheat is measured in next, then the ball is pressed in, then grease added to the top of the ball, and the cylinder is returned, loaded, to the frame to add the caps.

For superior accuracy at 25 & 50 yards, the best load will be between 15 and 22 grains of 3fg black powder. Because the plunger on the loading lever cannot fully seat the ball on the powder, serious shooters will use a filler, like cream of wheat, to seat the ball as close to the face of the cylinder as they can without preventing rotation of the cylinder. After seating the ball, grease is smeared over the ball to keep the fouling soft in the barrel, so each ball will push fouling out and leave a fresh trail of it for the next ball.

For hitting the X-Ring at 50 yards with my Remington Deluxe Model made by Pietta and sold by Navy Arms Company in the '80's & '90's, I use 18 grains of Schuetzen (German) 3FG black powder, cream of wheat filler, a .457 RB ( you'll be using either .451 or .454 RB), and axle grease on top.

There is another forum geared primarily to the 1858 Remington revolver. Go to www.1858remington.com/ On the home page, look at "1858 Remington Discussions" and click on, "1858 Remington Revolvers", then click on "Competition Remingtons".

If you want to keep loading simple and plink with it, use your flask to measure 30 grains, place a felt wad in next, and seat a .454 RB (1st choice) and you're ready to pull the trigger after adding #10 caps (1st choice) or #11 caps (usually have to pinch the caps to stay on) using your fingers or better yet a Cash mfg straight-line capper. If you use a felt wad, no grease is necessary on top of the ball.

Hope this helps.

 

[Springbok_Rider]

Hi,

Thanks for the responses. I've read that people have had a lot of different experiences with the powder measure and accuracy, although I'll have to experiment to see what works.

I've been saving tin cans, so really just looking to have some fun with a relic from the past that makes a big bang and a bit of smoke, and hopefully be accurate out of the box (the latter is partly why I got an 1858 instead of a Colt - although hoping I won't be on here looking at how to adjust the sights).

I've just moved to the South of France and there seems to only be two black powder options with Swiss being held in high regard. I'll try both and see as the Swiss is a little more expensive. From the research I've done, I'll be going - black powder (30 grains initially), lubed felt wad and a 0.454 ball. I've fired it with Remington No10 caps to clear the nipples and to get a feel for putting them on - no issues there. I also bought a cheap capper which kind of does the job although I have to use the back of the capper to carefully push them on more snuggly.

I thought anti sieze sounded a little bit over the top, but it's clearly an issue for some people so I'll give that a go - I've got some copper grease if that would work?

Fair play on firing the gun 100+ times and then make adjustments from there. I don't speak the lingo here so would prefer to do anything myself, although if I find a good gunsmith I'll be sending it to them to get it done properly.

Will order myself a powder measure and check out the competition thread.

Thanks again,
Antony

 

[BCRider]

My normal method is to just load from the flask. But I don't use felt wads or any fillers. If I did I think I'd worry more about any particles of the felt or filler stuck to the side and still smoldering. So if I used such fillers or wads I'd switch from direct flask measuring to a separate measure. I don't want the powder to flash back into a full flask.

My cap and ball gun play is primarily for use in cowboy action Frontiersman shooting. So I've not bothered to find the optimum load for accuracy. But even with a direct 30gns of 3fg and the ball pushed down onto that charge the guns are surprisingly accurate.

I would not discount the accuracy potential of the Colt 1860 guns either. After making and installing taller front sight blades and filing out the rear hammer notch to a more useable "U" shape instead of the hint of a "v" it started with I found I could group with my 1860's as well as I could with my S&W's shooting my best target loads.

 

[Crawdad1]

the latter is partly why I got an 1858 instead of a Colt

The Colt's sights can be adjusted as opposed to the fixed sighted Remingtons and can shoot as or more accurately then all but the "Matched" grade Remingtons.

 

[Springbok_Rider]

Hi,

Yeah, I've read the Colt is a great revolver. I've also read that it often fires high wheras the 1858 is more dead on straight out the box. Not a problem for most as you can just alter the sights - but again, this is my first revolver of it's kind and I didn't want to tinker more than needed. I'll be getting a Colt at some point anyway, but tried to go for the more sensible first choice.

Fair point on the felt wads. I'll get a powder measure as a precaution and to experiment with different loads.

Any thoughts on if the copper grease can be used as anti sieze for the nipples?

Regards,
Antony

 

[DD4lifeusmc]

copper grease

you can use regular antiseize. never tried the copper.
Also milk of magnesia works if really needed.
You don't want to use very much of anything though.

 

[Crawdad1]

but again, this is my first revolver of it's kind and I didn't want to tinker more than needed

I agree there, the Colt does take a little more work. But an adjustable powder measure is best for safety and what happens if YOUR revolver doesn't take to kindly to 30 grains of powder?? Then you're stuck. Invest in an adjustable powder measure. Some are made specifically for revolvers.


But, most importantly, good luck with your Remington it sounds like a real nice one with those grips on it.

And post some results we like to see how she shoots!!!

 

[EljaySL]

You definitely want to play with the powder load. My .44 revolvers all seem to have some sweet spot where they're obviously more accurate that ranges all over the map. You don't necessarily have to test every possible grain or whatever but if you test 20, 25, 30, 35 grains and see what's going on - that's something you can pretty much do the second time you shoot it (assume the first time you're just getting used to it) and at least you'll have a good starting point. Maybe on the next trip if there's a tie between say 25 and 30 shoot some groups at 25, 27.5, and 30. Maybe if it's most accurate at 25 try 22.5, 25, 27.5 just to be sure there are no surprises and to convince yourself that you're more or less centered on the sweet spot.

I don't see this as being a chore, you're shooting groups anyway, might as well just play with the measure and make sure you're in the middle of what seems like a good range for that gun.

In terms of using a spout only - I don't find that the measure slows things down enough to notice and my range actually doesn't allow direct loading from the flask so it's kind of a moot point.

 

[Crawdad1]

Maybe if it's most accurate at 25 try 22.5, 25, 25.5 just to be sure there are no surprises and to convince yourself that you're more or less centered on the sweet spot.

I couldn't agree more. A lot of people give up way to early then with just a little tweaking find out just how accurate these things can be.

Some even say this thing is the best shooting revolver I got.

 

[OYE]

Cream of wheat

serious shooters will use a filler, like cream of wheat

I'd hate to waste good "cream of wheat" that way. I have fond childhood memories of staring at a bowl of cream of wheat, malt o meal, or plain old mush, till it was cold, wishing it would just go away, then having to gag it down so I could leave the table. Are there any other options ? OYE

 

[ZVP]

I always use a powder measure.
I view thw flask as a 3/4# handgrenade that could kll ya with one ember setting it off!
SAFETY FIRST!
I too prefer felt wads, they make loading neater and faster. Did you ever shoot with just a wad over the powder? No kick! Just a big boom!

 

[Springbok_Rider]

Thanks for the responses all. I purchased this one here:

Will go ahead with a powder measure and thanks for the tips on experimenting with different loads. I'll definitely have a go without the lead ball at some point! To be fair the big bang is what attracts me most about these guns.

May only be next week before the rest of the gear arrives in the post - need a damn trunk for all the bp accessories. Will definitely be back to let you know the results as I'm looking forward to shooting it.

Antony

P.S. There is something about the metallic clicks of cocking and decocking this gun that makes me not want to put it down.

 

[Crawdad1]

Holy smokes!!! That is one fancy shootin iron. I especially like the grips and the full fluted cylinder sets that Remmy off real nice. You did good Springbok, real good!!!

 

[EljaySL]

When you buy a tool chest or whatever to put your BP stuff in... get a bigger one than you think. It's amazing how many odds and ends you can end up with.

 

[Armored farmer]

get a bigger one than you think. It's amazing how many odds and ends you can end up with.

thats for sure!
more revolvers seem to find their way in there too.

 

[Kaeto]

I use Kopr-Shield™ as an anti seize for the nipples and the lug bolts on my car. My dad was an electrician and he gave me a BIG jar of it that I have been using since 1995.

 

[Springbok_Rider]

Lol, thanks for that.

While I'm still waiting on the powder measure, flask, and lubed wads in the post - I did receive the black powder today (PNF), so thought I'd test it out.

I should have waited for the powder measure at least, but was impatient as usual. After some research to be safe, I just filled one cylinder (left the others empty) with enough space to seat the ball and test fired it that way.

The gun works as advertised and makes a big bang with the cowboy loads. It wasn't as accurate as I hoped and seems to shoot to the left, although I'm hoping this is down to the large and inconsistent black powder loads I was using.

I've created a large wooden frame that I'll use paper targets with, and test out the accuracy when loading it properly next week.

I do have a couple of questions though:

My straightline capper doesn't fit the nipples. I guess I'll need to get a file and trim off some of the brass. I just put the caps on by hand today and seated them with the back of the capper.

Just wondering if instead of the capper I could use tweezers and a dowel or something just to push them on carefully. They're Remington No10's and fit well. Otherwise if anyone can recommend a good capper for the 1858 please let me know.

In the same respect, is it okay (once the powder/wads/ball have been seated) to put the caps on while the cylinder is on the table - and then install the cylinder when I'm ready to fire it? Is there a risk of setting off the caps when installing the cylinder?

Thanks,
Antony

 

[BCRider]

Thanks for the responses all. I purchased this one here:

<head nods slowly up and down while drawling out>... pimpin'......



The copper stuff is supposed to work better where hot gases are present. Like with spark plugs and cylinder nipples. It also works well on regular room temperature stuff. And if I recall correctly it's supposed to work better where steel and aluminium are in contact. Us home users won't use enough in a lifetime to worry about the cost of the copper stuff over the cheaper silvery stuff. So just buy a little tube or can of the copper stuff and use it on anything where it's needed.

 

[damoc]

sounds like you had a pretty stout load and that could sure be affecting your accuracy
when i get above about 35 grains the rifleing is stripped of the ball and very bad leading.

some other guys here could tell you what loads they use for accuracy i think most stick to around 20 when chasing best scores.

 

[damoc]

as far as capping cyl on the bench it is very dangerous but some people do it

 

[DD4lifeusmc]

capper fit

A lot of different style cappers out there and yes a lot of them need tweaking

The newer ones have black spring steel clips on the ends. The really old ones didn't and fit better.
some times need to use a dremel and dress the nipple cavity a bit.

 

[72coupe]

Some people even modify the openings on the cylinder around the nipples so the capper works better.

 

[DD4lifeusmc]

pricing

This may be a little bit off topic for this thread, but I been in PM with Spring bok.
I decided to go do some price research.
Seems all the big boys (Dixie, possibleshop, Track of Wolf) are apparently running Christmas pricing on many things.
But that still don't mean they have the best pricing, so it may be worth it to shop around. Some lesser known shops might be better.