Hirtenberger 7.62 NATO Battle Pack Arrived...

[Happy Trails]

Usually I shoot new Federal XM80, but PSA had a good deal a while back on Hirtenberger NATO Battle Pack of 360 rounds.

It arrive a few weeks ago and I finally got around to opening it up. The label dated it 03/83. No telling what is inside the sealed rubber package without cutting it open.

Well it was all beautiful! For 33 year old ammo I am very pleased. No busted boxes. The ones I did open had perfect rounds inside. They are much cleaner and shiny looking (don't think the shine makes a difference) than the Federal XM80.

Shot through two boxes in the M1a and am very happy. They do seem to have a bit more scoot on them. Maybe the two grains less weight than the Federal? And the groups seemed a bit higher. Could just be my shootin' that day too.

Anyone have an opinion on the Hirt and especially comparative experience with XM80?

Thanks.

 

[bannockburn]

Happy Trails

My brother bought some of that Hirtenberger in the battle pack sometime back in the mid '80s for his Springfield Armory M1A. Good ammo and that packaging did a great job of preserving the ammo til he got around to using it.

 

[Doc Samson]

Groups very nicely in my PTR-91 and considering it wasn't too much more than steel cased ammo at the time I bought it, I consider it a great deal!

 

[FOGeologist]

I put a couple hundred rounds of Hirtenbirger through an M1A that I had in another life (1997) and did not find it, or the rifle, to be capable of more than 3-5 MOA.

I didn't have the gun long enough to tell what was going on; I had to pawn the thing off for some rent money.

Never have fully recovered from that shameful bit of stupidity.

 

[Gordon]

I used thousands of rounds of that ammo in the 80s to shoot out of my tuned HK 91 in early practical rifle and after that in my Smith enterprise tuned M-1a . It shott superbly in both formats but in bolt guns it was not that hot and Lake City NM shamed it.

 

[Happy Trails]

Thanks guys. Just the info I was looking for. I'm not expecting magic from that price range, but if its good for skill building and fun, that's fine by me. Can't afford to shoot match grade all day long.

 

[sawdeanz]

Just was shooting some I got from the same deal. Seemed fine to me, but I was wondering if having the staked primers would be reloadable? I don't reload yet but is it worth saving?

 

[Happy Trails]

Hi Sawdeanz
Glad you are having fun with the Hirt as well.

Saw you had an FR8. I still have an old 1916 Span Mauser myself. Receiver is stamped 7.62 and the barrel is stamped .308 Win. Bought it about 35 years ago. I have been upgrading it lately. Put and S&K scope mount and NStar scope on it. Just bought an HK flash hider like the FR8 had. This is to hide the stub on the muzzle from removing the soldered on front sight mount. Awaiting the crown tool to make the job good and complete after trimming the muzzle back a bit. I will probably put it in a new stock later this year. It is in .308. I use the same ammo in it as my M1A. Had an 1917 Eddystone, but sent it to my son, since I was not interested in keeping a bunch of different ammo's around

 

[Doc Samson]

Just was shooting some I got from the same deal. Seemed fine to me, but I was wondering if having the staked primers would be reloadable? I don't reload yet but is it worth saving?

It is Berdan primed which makes it a bit more complicated to reload. Not too many folks think it's worth the trouble, but it can be done.

 

[Destructo6]

Used to buy those at $35 for a sealed battlepack (200 rnds) in the latter 1990s. So sad.

It was great stuff.

 

[kimberkid]

I've still got about 3.5 cases of it that I bought in the mid 90's ... $150/1000 IIRC

 

[Nature Boy]

.....It is Berdan primed.....

Are you sure about that?

edit: it looks like some of it is, and some comes boxer primed

 

[GBExpat]

... Anyone have an opinion on the Hirt and especially comparative experience with XM80? ...

I recall in the first decade that everyone seemed to think that Hirt was some of the Good Stuff.

The last time I thought about buying some at great pricing (probably a dozen years ago) I decided against the purchase because I was on the hunt for boxer-promed milsurp so that I could easily reload it.

I already had (and still have) a large stockpile of berdan-primed 7,62 and was not interested in adding to that.

 

[boom boom]

Happy Trails,
Make sure that you check your 1916 Mauser every so often with a headspace gage or have a gunsmith do it. You can also check it via Hornady's headspace gage by checking your brass before and after firing. Some report no problems, others have and as usual YMMV.

Spanish Mausers 93 actions (1916 actions are based on the 93 and sometimes simply repurposed 93 actions) tend toward the soft side and lug setback has been reported from firing .308 in it. FR8's are based on the large ring m43 action which does not have seem to have that problem because of more recent advances in steel. You will find a whole lot of flame wars here and on other places regarding using a 93,94, 95 actions with cartridges such as the .308. Use the search function if you want the gist of it.

 

[Merle1]

Hi Sawdeanz
Glad you are having fun with the Hirt as well.

Saw you had an FR8. I still have an old 1916 Span Mauser myself. Receiver is stamped 7.62 and the barrel is stamped .308 Win. Bought it about 35 years ago. I have been upgrading it lately. Put and S&K scope mount and NStar scope on it. Just bought an HK flash hider like the FR8 had. This is to hide the stub on the muzzle from removing the soldered on front sight mount. Awaiting the crown tool to make the job good and complete after trimming the muzzle back a bit. I will probably put it in a new stock later this year. It is in .308. I use the same ammo in it as my M1A. Had an 1917 Eddystone, but sent it to my son, since I was not interested in keeping a bunch of different ammo's around

You should look into the controversy about .308 ammo in a 1916.

 

[Happy Trails]

Merle1, boom boom and anyone else

I think I caused some confusion when I said "it's in 308" and that I feed it the same as my M1a. I was unclear. Both get 7.62 x 51 NATO even though the Mauser is barrel stamped 308 win. I have this thing about staying with battle arm ammo with battle arms.

But to fill in the picture please read:

First, I don't have a cut down 93 from two centuries ago. Mine is a Model 1916 Short Rifle manufactured in the mid 1930's. True it was originally a in 7mm. It was re-chambered to 7.62 NATO in the 1960's.

And the Span Mau community has the original Spanish documentation that this change was done for use with the real 7.62 NATO ammo and was fielded as such for over a decade with success and no published history of problems often warned about these days.

To note, the lower power CETME 7.62 was also authorized for this gun since it was in the arsenal for other reasons-like keeping the full auto CETME more controllable. This is often a misunderstood issue.

And as we all know, sure there are damaged old guns. Probably the older straight bolt handle cut down 93's more so. And I have heard of Spanish Mausers being tested to destruction. Yes, any gun blow up under extreme abuse. That is not news. And that type of use is not relevant to my use.

And yes, old guns also wear out. Chamber wear, lug set back, shot out barrels... That's not news either. With any gun. This one, and yours, someday.

Yes, its an old gun. Yes I had it checked out. Yes Samco imported and sold thousands of these. And yes, from the field, users have for decades reported great performance for the value with no significant documented history of failures any different from any other old gun not abused. With time and use they will all wear out.

Probably the early manufactured cut down 93's would be worthy of the excess caution since that is where the "worn outs" seem to come from. The 1916 Short Rifles were not cut down. They utilized the 93 pattern action, but were a different gun made much later. Mine is all matching numbers from about 1935, including the stock.

Mine is actually stamped "cal 7.62" on the receiver and "308 win" on the barrel. Although I have shot some 308 in it, and many report having done so a lot for years with success, I shoot only 7.62 NATO Fed XM80 and similar. It's an old battle arm and I want to stick with battle arm ammo.

Going back to my initial post in this thread, I stated that I usually only fire XM80.

So breathe easy. I had it gauged and it is fine. And there is no measurable lug set-back. And no, I have never had to use a hammer to open the bolt. This thing slides like butter. And the brass measures out in great shape after it is fired. I have about 10 pounds of Lake City XM80 brass looking for a happy home someday. I don't reload.

I appreciate the caution and concern. And I apologize for mis-communicating. And I mean no offense to anyone on the forum. But I have also spent lots of time sorting out fact and misinformation, and building a library of documents, as well as having my own gun checked out.

Now lets all go shooting! Safely.

 

[seasmoke]

IIRC the 1979 Hirt and earlier is Berden primed. 1980 and on is Boxer. Both flavors seem to be available at the present time.

 

[1KPerDay]

Good stuff. And the only upsetting thing I find is that you don't reload.

 

[Happy Trails]

Good stuff. And the only upsetting thing I find is that you don't reload.

Thanks for encouraging me to do so. But I have no place to set up a proper reloading room, sadly. And I also hear it's a slippery slope!

I do a lot of fly fishing as well. But I don't tie my own flies. Maybe because I don't live in a harsh winter area with nothing else to do while the world is froze up for three months.