Holding drills for Bullseye pistol?

[Laphroaig]

^Many good posts. Exercise, mechanics, dry firing can only make you better. Bullseye is a tough sport.

Like all sports, some people are better at it than others. I've been shooting in a league for about 10 years. The top shooter when I started is the top shooter today. The second and third guys are still that. We had a new guy start about 5 years ago, and he quickly became a good shooter. The rest of us flounder in our mediocrity. We've had 3 new young guys start this year, 2 of which are good rifle shooters. I'm anxious to see how they progress.

Every once in a while I get a good score which keeps me coming back.

I started using one of these recently:

https://www.amazon.com/NSD-Essential-Spinner-Strengthener-Exerciser/dp/B007GGCLGW?th=1

 

[Buck13]

Nice. When you've perfected that and are looking for a new challenge, try balancing the nickel on edge, then try to cycle the action (letting the trigger return before the hammer falls). It's do-able, but takes practice (and a smooth action). It's tough to just get & keep the coin balanced, so it's more of a stability and trigger control drill than it is a "sight picture" drill.

I remember you posted a video doing that somewhere a "few" years ago.

My hands twitch enough that I can barely get the flat coin to stay on the rib without pulling the trigger! Or at least that is my memory of the one embarrassing time I tried it.

 

[MrBorland]

I remember you posted a video doing that somewhere a "few" years ago.

Yeah, it's been a while - the videos are still on YouTube. As I recall, I was stuck at home recovering from back surgery.

 

[243winxb]

Try this.

Use iron sights. Hold @6 Oclock. Focuse eye on front sight. When in wobble area, start squeeze & dont stop till shot breaks. All done in less then 4 seconds. Slow fire.
Call each shot fired, before looking thru spotting scope. When the shot breaks, you should have a good idea of where the bullet will be on target. (If looking at front sight)

Timmed & rapid requires a cadence/timing of the trigger. Got to get all 5 fired in 10 seconds.
Mostly like the continuing pulling of the trigger.

Keep the thumb OFF the grips/gun, when firing.
Do shoot a NMC for practice. . 10 each, slow, timed, rapid.
A 2700 match will be mostly timed & rapid. There are classifications for us less capable shooters. Cant be all High Masters.

For weekly small shoots, this system works.


https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?media/bullseye-pistol-handicap-system.488/

 

[Soupy44]

After your dry fire practice, the idea is to do your shot process in a match, but that's a very abstract idea.

During a match, I'd have a goal of where to keep shots inside. My first goal was all on paper, than all in the scoring rings.

I've been working on all on the repair center for a while. I have about 2 dozen shots that require pasters right now. The vast majority of my shots are 9s, 10s, and Xs, but those other shots cost me a lot of points.

And I'm sorry I took so long to say make sure to have fun! I've been shooting 22 and CF with revolvers for about a year now. The last match last year I shot revolvers for everything. Why? BECAUSE! I even shot a 22 EIC match with a revolver. Rapid fire is a lot slower in my head after starting from low ready and thumb cocking!

 

[DMW1116]

I generally do a regular bit of dry firing. 2 or 3 sessions a week plus shooting. I don’t do any special exercises beyond just regular stuff. I do regularly go through Dr Kirsch’s shoulder routine for rotator cuff maintenance. That might be good for this. It’s full range light dumbbell lifts front side and back and hanging from my pull-up bar.

I’ve been concentrating on slow fire lately. It’s been giving me fits. I’ll pull a slow fire shot before I do the others.

 

[.38 Special]

I’ve been concentrating on slow fire lately. It’s been giving me fits. I’ll pull a slow fire shot before I do the others.

"Timed" was always my best stage. "Rapid" was too much time pressure, and "Slow" gave me too much time to think. Twenty seconds for ten shots is/was just enough time to allow me to get it done without feeling rushed, and not enough time for me to really screw things up.

 

[1KPerDay]

I started riding in the wool/leather era. Still have my Protog shorts somewhere. At some point, local pros were coming home from Europe showing off their new lycra shorts. Hardshell helmets and clipless pedals came soon after. I recently donated my Colnago Super (decked out in Campy Super Record & 36-spoke tubulars) to a local collector. It's heavy by today's standards, but rides like a dream. I designed my current (steel) frame around that Colnago's geometry, so it's a modernized version of it, and (on the occasion when I actually have time now to ride) it rides like a dream as well.



Nice. When you've perfected that and are looking for a new challenge, try balancing the nickel on edge, then try to cycle the action (letting the trigger return before the hammer falls). It's do-able, but takes practice (and a smooth action). It's tough to just get & keep the coin balanced, so it's more of a stability and trigger control drill than it is a "sight picture" drill.

I can’t picture this and it sounds impossible. Can you video it or describe what’s actually happening further? How do you let the trigger return before the hammer falls???

 

[mavracer]

Hang a modest weight (about the same as your handgun, start lighter if needed) from the center on a string. Hold the stick in both hands with your arms straight out in front of you and smoothly roll the weight up and back down. Good for arms and hand and keeping your hands agile.

Loved the movie Hannie Caulder.
That's a great exercise to build strength for shooting.

 

[MrBorland]

try balancing the nickel on edge, then try to cycle the action (letting the trigger return before the hammer falls)

I can’t picture this and it sounds impossible. Can you video it or describe what’s actually happening further? How do you let the trigger return before the hammer falls???

Go to 1:00 here. It's possible to fully cycle with action if the hammer's über-light hammer.

 

[1KPerDay]

Go to 1:00 here. It's possible to fully cycle with action if the hammer's über-light hammer.

Thank you. I was picturing a semi-auto and was like

 

[Slamfire]

I do want to say, I do dry fire. I enjoy dry firing. And I can squeeze that trigger, have it break, and not change the sight picture during follow through.

If I could only do this consistently round after round firing a live cartridge, I would be a High Master. However, I find in a real match, with real 45 ACP rounds, the first couple of shots go where I call them. But as the round count goes up, the red dot starts moving like a bee, and that is when I know, my flinch has kicked in.

Maybe the best Bullseye shooters are Zoombies because they don't feel pain, and are so brain dead that they don't think about it. It's a could be.

 

[Russ57]

Okay. So what ammo are you shooting? Are you reloading your own? I'll admit to shooting better scores with a .22 LR. Maybe I'm kidding myself but I always thought that was because it is cheaper/easier to have an accurate .22 LR than a .45 Acp.

Are you "positive" some level of physical or eye fatigue isn't a factor? Is the difference in shooting scores as the round counts go up significantly different between 45 and 22? Granted you are shooting the 22 for 1/3rd of the match and the 45 for 2/3.

 

[Slamfire]

Okay. So what ammo are you shooting? Are you reloading your own? I'll admit to shooting better scores with a .22 LR. Maybe I'm kidding myself but I always thought that was because it is cheaper/easier to have an accurate .22 LR than a .45 Acp.

Are you "positive" some level of physical or eye fatigue isn't a factor? Is the difference in shooting scores as the round counts go up significantly different between 45 and 22? Granted you are shooting the 22 for 1/3rd of the match and the 45 for 2/3.

My load in the 45 ACP is a 200 LSWC with 4.1 grains Bullseye. With this lot of Bullseye powder I am using 4.1 which ensures reliable feed and extraction. And I am quite sure what is causing my problems with the 45 ACP is a flinch. When I go to the range and shoot my other 1911's, I can tell I am flinching. If the 1911 goes click, but not bang, I see movement of the 1911. Often pushing, sometimes twisting, sometimes a push down. A flinch is a very hard thing to control as it is involuntary. I have much less of this with the 22lr. And the longer the match goes on, the greater the flinch. The body just does not like it, and stops listening to the brain driving the train!

 

[MrBorland]

Has there ever been serious discussion about modifying the .45ACP requirement?

Call me a heretic (but then again, I can be since I've never shot BE), but I've long-question the continued required use of .45ACP in BE. Sure, it's a rich tradition based on, I suppose, what was a service round, but given the aging demographics of the sport, the general decline in participation, the unnecessary recoil, cost of ammo, length of matches, and the popularity of 9mm, it would seem to make sense to just limit it to rimfire and a single centerfire (the latter with a Power Factor floor of, say 120k-ish). Maybe leave the NRA version as is, and modify CMP matches? Or, like HP Rifle, have separate "vintage" matches for those who opt for longer matches which use the .45ACP. Flamesuit on...

 

[DMW1116]

Is 45 AARP required? I thought it was just 45 caliber.

 

[243winxb]

45 acp in auto or revolver, fun guns with target loads. It's possible to score higher points with the 45 then the 22. The big hole cuts the next higher point scoring ring.
There was 1 match in the 70's where hard ball ammo was supplied free. Almost every one shot it for the free brass.

 

[bummer7]

My load in the 45 ACP is a 200 LSWC with 4.1 grains Bullseye. With this lot of Bullseye powder I am using 4.1 which ensures reliable feed and extraction. And I am quite sure what is causing my problems with the 45 ACP is a flinch. When I go to the range and shoot my other 1911's, I can tell I am flinching. If the 1911 goes click, but not bang, I see movement of the 1911. Often pushing, sometimes twisting, sometimes a push down. A flinch is a very hard thing to control as it is involuntary. I have much less of this with the 22lr. And the longer the match goes on, the greater the flinch. The body just does not like it, and stops listening to the brain driving the train!

Not unusual as I have the same issue over the course of a match. You get tired and find yourself slipping. What I found helpful is to restart my shot plan when I find myself flinching. That is, put the gun down, take a few breaths, relax and confirm my grip and stance. You reallly don't want to continue shooting if you are flinching as this will only reinforce a bad habit.

For time or rapid fire stages, I find practicing 2, 3, and 4 shot drills help a lot in these stages.

What has really helped me with trigger control is shooting air pistol. You can actually see your front sight move if you are pushing the trigger or tightening your grip when squeezing the trigger.

What I don't do anymore is shoot a 2700. I don't have the strenght or endurance for an all day match anymore. My preference is to shoot an 1800 and call it a day.

 

[Buck13]

I generally do a regular bit of dry firing. 2 or 3 sessions a week plus shooting. I don’t do any special exercises beyond just regular stuff. I do regularly go through Dr Kirsch’s shoulder routine for rotator cuff maintenance. That might be good for this. It’s full range light dumbbell lifts front side and back and hanging from my pull-up bar.

I’ve been concentrating on slow fire lately. It’s been giving me fits. I’ll pull a slow fire shot before I do the others.

I haven’t tried my new 1911 in rapid fire, but with .22s slow fire is definitely the hardest part!

 

[DMW1116]

I haven’t tried my new 1911 in rapid fire, but with .22s slow fire is definitely the hardest part!

Maddening isn’t it? Those rings are so tiny. Also, I didn’t think you could get enough people inside a red dot sight for doubles racket ball, but that’s exactly what it looks like is happening if I hold the pistol more than about 5 seconds.

 

[Buck13]

Maddening isn’t it? Those rings are so tiny. Also, I didn’t think you could get enough people inside a red dot sight for doubles racket ball, but that’s exactly what it looks like is happening if I hold the pistol more than about 5 seconds.

Mine looks like a rat on meth in a maze pretty much all the time.

 

[bummer7]

Mine looks like a rat on meth in a maze pretty much all the time.

Sounds a lot like watching a monkey on speed race around. I shoot irons just because i don't notice the movement as much.

Yes, the front sight does wobble a bit. But you just have to trust your wobble zone.

 

[TxUplander]

By your description, you have “target panic”. I fight with the same ailment shooting a handgun or bow with sights. The fear of missing starts to control your movements and trigger the shot before you are ready. I have some very big heavy recoiling handguns. I dont fear their recoil at all and shoot well from a rest but find myself jerking the trigger (even on a 22) while shooting offhand. Target panic is 100% mental and can be overcome with lota of time and practice.

 

[LiveLife]

Welcome to THR

By your description, you have “target panic”. I fight with the same ailment shooting a handgun or bow with sights. The fear of missing starts to control your movements and trigger the shot before you are ready. I have some very big heavy recoiling handguns. I dont fear their recoil at all and shoot well from a rest but find myself jerking the trigger (even on a 22) while shooting offhand. Target panic is 100% mental and can be overcome with lota of time and practice.

And Jerry Miculek demonstrates overcoming "target panic" incorporating precise draw to grip, sight alignment and trigger control to go "bang" really fast, over and over, regardless of firearm or caliber outlined in this thread -
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/trigger-control.834737/page-2#post-11245640



Brian Zins, a 12 time NRA champion and holder of 30 shooting records talks about trigger control - "Trigger is used to maintain sight alignment and sight picture ... There are two types of trigger control ... uninterrupted and wrong."



And if there is a factor of "flinching", we addressed that to resolution several times - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...g-aid-against-flinching.912566/#post-12464404

 

[TxUplander]

Thanks for that! Great information for those of us afflicted.