What Would it Take to Get YOU out to a Bullseye ("Conventional Pistol" Event?

[Grump]

If you answer would be different for a club event vs. an actual NRA Approved (or Registered) match, please say what's different and why.

Anyway, I tagged along with my Dad (and often Mom too) for a number of regular bullseye pistol matches when I was a kid and there used to be a LOT of participation. Two different clubs within 20 miles of home had turning targets back then (both ranges are gone now, but one of the two clubs is still around).

It's a tough accuracy-centered game, with the same target (black bull out to the 8 ring instead of the 9) at 50 yards slow fire as for the 25-yard timed and rapid fire stages.

The times are generous, 10 minutes for a 10-shot slow fire string of 10 shots, 20 seconds per 5-round string timed fire at 25 yards (two strings), and the same drill in rapid fire except 10 seconds per 5 round string. That's nothing compared to the "splits" in IPSC and IDPA of anywhere from a slow .8 second between shots to the blistering (to me) splits of .18 second.

But it's done with a 3.something inch 10-ring and one-handed.

It IS hard, but is also IS the "National Match Course" for pistol.

And a typical match has one done with a .22, another with any safe centerfire (certain size and other limits apply), then finally with a .45. That's 900 points for a short match. Big matches are "2700"s, with three targets done with each gun at each stage.

Even if just to try it out, what would it take to get YOU to one of these precision accuracy events???

 

[rockhopper46038]

I'd try it if one of my local clubs put one on.

 

[Grump]

Cool.

How far would you drive and consider a club "local"???

 

[rockhopper46038]

I'd drive a hour, but would really prefer to keep it within 30 min of me to call it "local". If I tried it and loved it, I'd probably drive 2 hours to a regularly scheduled event.

 

[Centurian22]

I would love to participate in something like this if it were available in my area. As far as I know there are no pistol competitions at any club within an hour or so.

 

[btg3]

The OP acknowledges "a LOT of participation" a generation ago. Also, I've seen the "bullseye era" mentioned elsewhere.

What happened?
While there may be an increase in sales of guns, ammo, and carry permits, overall we choose to do things other than shooting with our recreational time and dollars.

For the shooting that does go on, bullseye must compete for those shooters. Most young shooters today have played video games with action type shooting. Is there a video version of bullseye shooting? I doubt that it sells nearly as well as the action games. Any wonder that actual bullseye competition has a significant marketing challenge? How are you going to sell it? This leads back to the OPs question of "what would it take to get you to participate?"

Rather than invite me to show up at a match in a sport that I know little about, invite me to learn about bullseye shooting":
1. Equip me. Share your guns. They do not look like the guns I have.
2. Coach me. Help me to develop skill and proper technique.
3. In time, suggest that we shoot together at a match.

And be honest. Whether you feel that participation in various shooting sports develops a better shooter, or if you feel that a shooter should not focus on too many disciplines, be open to discussion and support the objectives of fellow shooters.

 

[tuj]

make it so a 2700 doesn't take all day long.

 

[Sam1911]

Honestly, I'd love to do it. Bit I only have so much time and so little money and it is already devoted to other shooting pursuits more in line with what I see handguns to be, or to be for. My one "luxury" seems to be Service Rifle matches and even that is a once or twice a year thing.

If my dream comes true and I really can retire someday with plenty of ammo, I'll pick up bullseye along with IMHSA and SASS and BPCR and F-class and all the other disciplines I can't spear myself over today.

 

[Hangingrock]

Forty years of my age!

 

[ljnowell]

I do shoot Bullseye. We shoot the National Match course, however, we only have 5 minutes for the 10 shots of slow fire. Very challenging, very rewarding. My high score is a 281, my index is a 274. Thats with a revolver, btw.

 

[ljnowell]

The OP acknowledges "a LOT of participation" a generation ago. Also, I've seen the "bullseye era" mentioned elsewhere.

What happened?
While there may be an increase in sales of guns, ammo, and carry permits, overall we choose to do things other than shooting with our recreational time and dollars.

For the shooting that does go on, bullseye must compete for those shooters. Most young shooters today have played video games with action type shooting. Is there a video version of bullseye shooting? I doubt that it sells nearly as well as the action games. Any wonder that actual bullseye competition has a significant marketing challenge? How are you going to sell it? This leads back to the OPs question of "what would it take to get you to participate?"

Rather than invite me to show up at a match in a sport that I know little about, invite me to learn about bullseye shooting":
1. Equip me. Share your guns. They do not look like the guns I have.
2. Coach me. Help me to develop skill and proper technique.
3. In time, suggest that we shoot together at a match.

And be honest. Whether you feel that participation in various shooting sports develops a better shooter, or if you feel that a shooter should not focus on too many disciplines, be open to discussion and support the objectives of fellow shooters.

Thats the issue, there isnt enough "action" for people nowadays. The fact is its much more difficult than any other pistol sport I have ever tried. You cannot shoot fast enough to win.

As far as people trying to get people to shoot, I see people loaning people equipment all the time to try the sport. We advertise it. We do everything we can. We certainly dont have the money to pay to have a video game made to get lazy kids off the couch though

 

[Old Fuff]

Been there, done that... All the way to Camp Perry and beyond.

Of course all that happened during the past century. It was a great experience, and I enjoyed every minute of it. More important I learned about and perfected handgun markmanship long before the double-tap generation came along.

The challange is to be able to repeatedly hit inside a small scoring ring at distances that are now thought by many to be impossible. Also to be able to accomplish it while only using one hand.

It takes time and practice, but once you have it down you can go on with any other handgun shooting game and master it in a relatively short time.

Because you've already mastered the basics in the first place.

 

[twofifty]

Action shooting (or practical shooting) draws people of all ages, but mostly over 40s. We could recruit a few more of those video-addled kids though. ;-)

 

[crazyjennyblack]

What would it take? Not sure!

My problems:
1. I would have to look up what it actually is, and what it costs. I know little about it!
2. I'm a very informal person. It sounds awfully formal to me. I hate registering for
anything, and I don't much like commitment. 50/50 chance on any given day that I
would have to cancel because my life is nuts.
3. I'm not a people person. More than 10 people in a room and I don't want to be there
anymore. The very idea of having to go to a club to shoot is the antithesis of my
personality, and I never liked indoor ranges. I shoot with one or two friends out in
the wide open country for a good reason.

What seems interesting about it:
1. It seems like you use multiple weapons and then have an overall proficiency score.
2. You get to see how well other people are doing compared to you.
3. Maybe a chance to make a new friend? (Not good at this.)
4. Might be fun if I took friends with me.

What are my needs?
1. A come-as-you are basis. Show up or not, no money lost and nobody offended.
2. Someone I already know and trust to go with me. I don't go anywhere new alone.
3. An event that doesn't take all day - 4 hrs at most, and not a lot of standing/waiting.
4. Online scheduling and a site where I can see what events are close by and what
weapons and ammo are required to attend.
5. Something within 30-45 minutes of me, and not always on a weekend because I work
a LOT of weekends.
6. Something that isn't attended mostly by old men. That's who I see out at gun shops
and ranges. I get along with some, but I've run into a lot of loudmouths and would
like to not be interacting with THAT type of people.

 

[waktasz]

Is there anyone under 50 years old that attends these matches? I'm young-ish and have zero desire to attend one of these matches when there is USPSA, 3 gun and IDPA to be had. I have a feeling most people in my age group(I'm 31) and younger feel the same.

 

[Centurian22]

I just turned 29 and I would be happy to compete, in any type of competition. This upcoming year I'm hoping to enter my first local factory rifle competition. If I have off from work and get my reloads dialed in by then.

 

[Grump]

make it so a 2700 doesn't take all day long.

Well, I've thought about that a lot the past few weeks, beginning with my own Service Rifle days when I was in college and for a few years afterwards.

One key I believe is to get off the everything needs to be a 2700 match. To build the sport, IMO, requires a foundation of 900-point events, largely to avoid the all-day commitment thing. Just one target for each gun.

So, would having the shooter in and out and done in no more than three hours work?

I know that when one local club started "Action Pistol" just as monthly club events with one Comstock stage, one speed stage, and one par time (= accuracy match in my mind), it morphed to 3-gun in a year or two, and then *I* quit going when it became a victim of its own success and stage design and I could no longer count on being done my noon or 1 p.m.

Alternatively, I suspect that clubs could do well by having the 900-point events be one gun per week/month/whatever interval. All .45s, then all centerfire the next time, and all .22s after that, for example. What might be nice about three targets per stage would be the chance to essentially "re-shoot" and track progress.

Yes, it's a precision event and yes, it's shot only at boring paper targets and yes, the measurement of excellence is merely a number. Those are certainly challenges for today's "markets".

Turning targets are considered essential by the Bullseye community, but the rules DO allow only audible commands. ISSF (the international disciplines that feed World Cup and the Olympics) is even MORE demanding in pistol, and they now use electronic targets and red and green lights to start and stop the strings. No one has EVER fired a perfect score at 50 meters free pistol slow fire, if I'm reading my sources correctly.

So like running, there's a number to measure performance, and the participants are all about tracking those numbers over time and building improvement.

Though boring as the same course of fire all the time, that also brings what I call the "standard exercise" element, the ability to measure yourself against yourself and also against the rest of the shooters in the nation. The intense interest I see in IPSC forums on the percentage of one's hit factor on the international stage gives me another possible idea of how to increase the appeal of what the NRA still calls "Conventional Pistol".

And I've looked around and also listened to a few other people, with several of us concluding that NRA needs to do a better job of putting descriptions of the game on their website, and especially using a search data filter or something or even having pages with the words "bullseye pistol" in their titles, so newcomers can FIND info easier.

Me, here, now, I'm looking for a bit of market research from the shooting enthusiasts who populate the internet forums.

Thanks for everyone's input!

 

[rondog]

I can embarrass myself shooting all alone, I really don't relish the thought of doing it in front of strangers. But I've never been into competition of any kind, always been pretty much a loner. I'm a lot more social on internet forums than in person. Just an introvert, not unfriendly.

I'd like to watch a match, but I'm the kind of guy who'd watch the whole thing and then leave, without ever saying a word to anyone.

 

[UpTheHill]

Centurian22 depending on where in Maine you are Capital city in Augusta has BE matches and practice sessions and I believe that scarboro and hampden also runs them

http://capitolcityrpc.org/?page_id=27

 

[MrBorland]

what would it take to get YOU to one of these precision accuracy events???

Time.

When I started competing, I had to choose between "practical" (IDPA/USPSA) and "conventional" (bullseye) shooting because of time constraints. I went the "practical" route, figuring I'd work on accuracy on my own, either at the range or in my garage with a good air pistol.

I'd love to start shooting some bullseye, and have been seriously considering it, but I can't do bullseye and IDPA/USPSA. It'd be a good mental break from practical shooting, though, and it'd help round out my skillset, so the "cross training" may be worth it.

 

[btg3]

I can embarrass myself shooting all alone, I really don't relish the thought of doing it in front of strangers. But I've never been into competition of any kind, always been pretty much a loner. I'm a lot more social on internet forums than in person. Just an introvert, not unfriendly.

I'd like to watch a match, but I'm the kind of guy who'd watch the whole thing and then leave, without ever saying a word to anyone.

Rondog, your frankness speaks for an untold number of shooters.

If you haven't already watched video of many types of shooting competition on youtube, it's not a bad place to start.

At an actual match, some clubs encourage you to come prepared to participate and will make it a great first time experience... other clubs require newbies to watch a match and come back next time. Generally, the first move is up to you.

 

[bainter1212]

I actually sent out some emails to some local Bullseye shooting clubs, saying that I was interested and would like some more info.....and none of them ever replied!!!

Come on, old timers. Answer your email!!!

 

[Centurian22]

Upthehill, thanks for the info! I'm in the Bangor area. I'll look in to Augusta and Hampden. Do you know if you have to be a member of the clubs to participate in the competitions? That's where I run into problems as those clubs (to my knowledge) require attending meetings. I work away from home a month at a time then I'm only home for two weeks. That keeps me from making the minimum requirements for membership. I will look more into them and possibly call to see if they could make any exceptions for me.

Blue hill does a lot as well but I think more with the cowboy actions scene.

 

[Saleen322]

What Would it Take to Get YOU out to a Bullseye ("Conventional Pistol" Event?

I shoot some conventional and a little international pistol. Club matches get more attendance for two reasons, cost and time. A club 600 match is usually always .22 LR and costs about $3-$4 entry fee, less than $10 for quality ammo, and takes about 45 minutes to shoot a match.

Conventional participation is down (and even fewer shoot international) because it is difficult to do and fewer places offer them now. Many people now would rather shoot something that is easier and where they can hide their lack of skill under cover of time. That does not make them wrong, it is their leisure time and they enjoy that more. Few people like having their mistakes laid out on a paper target where others can see it. The gun industry sells guns accordingly. Many manufacturers sell a pistol you can shoot say IDPA with but there are fewer markets for a pistol accurate enough to shoot intermediate level conventional. I don't see it changing anytime soon at least in the places where I shoot.

 

[tuj]

actually, I think the best way is to do it the way they do up North. Shoot just the .22 in a 900 at 50' using the b2 and b3 targets, on teams, with the other team scoring targets while the first team shoots. Way faster than the good ole walk-to-the-target-with-the-guy-next-to-you, score, walk back, repeat ad-infinitum. Some of us can't walk that well (me, I'm a younger shooter but have a sports injury) and an whole day of 2700 gets old.

Plus shooting on a 50' line is a lot less intimidating for newbies than throwing them out there at 50 yards, only for them to find that only 1 or 2 of their shots hit paper.

[btw, I am ranked sharpshooter and shoot expert-level scores and would probably make expert if I could ever drag myself back out to a match]