Home Defense Firearm For A Woman

[BlueHeelerFl]

Revolver is much better than a semi-auto for a new shooter. No slide to rack, happily fires regardless of how you hold it, does not have to be disassembled to clean, shoots just fine if you have to stick it right into BG's torso...

But if this is for home defense, hardening the house is at least as important as getting a firearm.

An older S&W model 10 would be a great choice. Simple to use, typically has a super smooth trigger pull, heavy enough to absorb some recoil but not that heavy

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

A couple of women in my community asked me about having a gun for protection, they live alone. (neither had any experience at all with firearms)
I had them over and spent the first 45 minutes on safety, proper handling and storage. One was fine with my P365, the other couldn't rack the slide on
the P365 or even my tiny KelTec .32, I've suggested a .38 Spl revolver for her. She asked about a shotgun because she was able to use the slide without difficulty, however, I explained the recoil may be a problem for her. I suggested she go to a range and take an introductory course and try both a revolver and perhaps the S&W MP EZ. Thoughts?

I used to delve into this quite a bit, but over the years I've noticed an aggravating issue. Namely that many of these people tend to treat a firearm as the be-all in and of itself without any actual investment of time and effort on their own part. "I want a firearm for protection" becomes "I have a firearm, I'm done now."

HAVING a firearm is only the start. LEARNING HOW TO USE the firearm is a process that begins and ends with the user. Without a personal dedication towards learning on the part of the user, all a firearm will end up being is an expensive paperweight in a drawer somewhere.

Most of us have a tendency to focus on what I'll call the "technical" aspects of firearms. Things like size, fit, caliber, ease of operation, recoil, concealability, function, safety, etc.

And all of that stuff IS important, don't get me wrong. Vitally important, in fact.

But to a novice, and as a rule female novices, "technical" rapidly becomes "boring". (No slight to women here...I'm speaking in generalities with the understanding that there's a full spectrum with both sexes on interest levels on every subject under the sun. As a rule, there are fewer women involved in shooting sports and fewer women interested in defensive use of firearms when compared to men.)

I see this with Cub Scouts all the time (and that includes both boys and girls) as a Rangemaster teaching them how to shoot BB guns. My goal is to get them past the "boring" part to the "fun" part as quickly as I safely can, or I lose their interest...potentially for years to come.


So my approach for any novice to the concept of a firearm for protection, and especially for women, is to start off the conversation on what THEY think about the subject and go from there. Find out what's important to them and why.

From there, using some of my own firearms, I cover the basics on safety and function. In general, it doesn't matter what the firearm is...just don't be stupid about it. There's a big difference between a large frame 9mm like a full sized 9mm Beretta 92SF shooting 115 gr. factory loads and a S&W .500 Magnum shooting 440 gr. hot loads. A full sized 9mm may not fit their grip well and feel a bit unwieldy, but shooting it isn't going to be a potentially dangerous, traumatic event.


Then it's range time. And at the range I have two rules (beyond safety, of course):

1. The novice shooter WILL be able to put holes in the target. Distance and size of the target will be adjusted to ensure this, because few things are more frustrating, embarrassing, of self-destructive to ego and personal drive for a novice than not being able to hit what they're shooting at.

2. Shooting WILL be fun. If it's fun, they're interested and focused. If it's not fun, it's a chore, it's painful, it's something they don't want to do.


It doesn't matter if they can't rack the slide on the gun without help. They're having fun.

It doesn't matter if the gun they're using is heavier than they'd like. They're having fun.

It doesn't matter if the gun they're shooting doesn't fit their grip all that well. They're having fun.


Once it becomes "fun", there's now more of a desire to learn the technical parts that would otherwise be "boring". At this point, systematically feed them the technical stuff bit by bit and allow them the fun range time to put it into practice themselves.

Potentially scary "mystery" fades into the background and exciting wonder starts to replace it.

While doing this, they are more likely to discover a variety of things about themselves that they didn't realize before. Some will discover they're stronger than they thought and things they had difficulty with before will be easier than they realized. Some will discover that the work they put into these fun activities will actually give them the strength and techniques to overcome prior limitations, which engenders a sense of achievement. The possibilities are boundless.

The hunt for a firearm they like that fits their needs, desires, and physical limitations simply becomes part of this process at that point. Something THEY had an active part in choosing for themselves instead of someone like me telling them "what's best for them". We facilitate this by working on the basics, what's important, discussions of personal preferences, pros and cons, etc. They explore a range of options themselves and use their new found knowledge and experience to make a choice for themselves.


Eventually they have a firearm of their own that they have a vested interest in. It's far less likely to be a dusty paperweight sitting on a pile of papers in a drawer somewhere.

 

[doubleh]

I would not recommend a 357 for most women. In our younger years when my wife had no problems with her hands and used a 30-06 for her deer rifle I purchased a Dan Wesson 15-2 VH 8. She shot exactly one cylinder of rounds and handed it back to me with the words, "that is enough" and has never fired it again in all the years that have passed.although she was fine with her S&W model 60, not the most pleasant 38 special I have ever shot. I own other 357 revolvers and the DW is the most pleasant one of them to shoot for me. I am sure some women would be OK with a 357 but think it would be a small number that are.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Yes, as Jeff Cooper put it, owning a firearm no more makes you a shooter than owning a violin makes you a violinist.

 

[KnightHawk]

My wife has been shooting a Charter Arms 44 Bulldog for 30 plus years now. She shoots it very well. But ask her if she likes it and as we age, both in our 70’s, her answer is no it’s not fun.
She also shoots a Savage 99 in 308 and is familiar with recoil.
But now that we are both retired we will have the time for recreational shooting. But she said not the Bulldog. My intentions was some target shooting with our K frames 38’s. I’m putting together some target loads for fun and practice.
My point is my wife is very familiar with firearms, but things change. We also have 2 357’s in strategic spots and she shoots the Ruger Security Six 4” 357 very well. These are stuffed with solid point 158 357’s in the summer and 38 158 HP loads in the winter.
We also keep a couple rifles behind the doors for furry critters with claws and possibly any two legged aggressive miscreant.
But to the subject of this thread I’m a wheel gun guy and so is my wife.
The simplicity of a double action revolver is a major point to be considered. I know I’m old school but younger people assume that there is nothing out there except bottom feeding guns.
The need for what I consider excessive fire power is very rare, generally 2 to 3 rounds are the norm. Obviously there are sometimes the need, but in general confrontations in home it is not needed.
I do own a couple 9mm semi automatic pistols. I’m warming up to them, but the wheel gun is my comfort zone.
The AR is an easy tool to master and I’m going to get my wife to try one out next summer once I get her over the dislike of black guns. The 3” Ruger SP 101 357/38 is a good compact pistol with some heft to it.
The new Smith M&P FPC 9mm carbine is of interest to me. It folds down to 17 inches and has an adjustable butt stock as the standard AR. Looks simple and easy to use which I would think is a great home defense firearm that anyone could master.

 

[old lady new shooter]

There is no reason a new shooter could not use a 357 if they are okay with the recoil. It adds desirable stopping power.

It takes a lot longer to get back on target between shots.

 

[.308 Norma]

My point is my wife is very familiar with firearms, but things change.

They absolutely do! As I've posted several times before, back in the '80s, my wife was one of the top IHMSA competitors in the state with her 10.5" Ruger "Super Silhouette" 44 Magnum revolver. Her answer to handling the recoil was, "Just let it kick."
Things have changed. I'm 75 now, my wife is not far behind, and she has arthritis in her right thumb joint (probably the result of thousands of full house 44 Magnum loads fired in IHMSA competitions and practice for) in the '80s. The fact is, on Sunday I posted about how on our way home from church on Sunday, we stopped at a gun range and ran 70 or 80 rounds through my new Kahr PM9. It's a little sub-compact job, it's hard to hang on to, and yesterday (Monday) morning my wife's right thumb joint was all swollen and red.
She won't shoot "that thing" (as she called it) ever again! Yet she carries a Smith .380 EZ, and shoots her Sig P239 (a larger, heavier gun) 9mm really well.
She also has a Smith snubby 38 Special that she shoots okay. She has some large grips on it though, and she sure doesn't run +P ammo in it.
At any rate, my wife too is very familiar with guns, shooting and recoil (including rifle recoil). And it kind of surprised me when the OP in this thread wrote that "a couple of women" asked him about guns for home protection. If there's one thing I've noticed in the last 10 years or so, it's that women wanting to learn about guns and shooting always ask my wife - not me. And that's in spite of the fact that I'm the one that taught my wife about guns and shooting in the first place! Of course, that was 50+ years ago. Times change.

 

[Jim Watson]

Anecdote Alert, stop me if you have heard these:

The revolver training SMEs would say that a mild wadcutter is the best revolver round for someone who isn't dedicated. They would also say train, train, train!

A novice with a full bore 357 is NOT a good idea.

FLG and I were on the range shooting in a gun he had worked on for me. We saw a couple in action. He was shooting a H&K P7 "the Porsche of pistols" and had considerately armed his wife with a Ruger SP101 and all the Magnumb ammo she cared to shoot, which wasn't much. I caught him looking the other way and gave her a box of wadcutters. After a few shots she realized it didn't have to hurt and started enjoying herself. She could shoot pretty well when she wasn't being kicked around, I think better than him.

I know two other women who were provided revolvers by Hubby and Dad. Not being dumb bunnies, they soon figured out that you didn't HAVE to haul that 12 lb trigger back an inch, that if you pulled the hammer back until it clicked, it was a lot easier to shoot. Unfortunately, they both chose to check out a bump in the night with cocked revolver in hand. One was startled by the cat and shot the water bed, fortunately not penetrating the chamber, the other, having cleared the house, shot the floor while attempting to decock.

Two other women, armed with DA/SA automatics - as one said, "the salesman showed me where it said "Ladysmith" right on the side" - had determined that it was a lot easier to crank off that first shot with both forefingers on the trigger.

Still another, kindly equipped with an Airweight .38 by Hub, fell into bad company (Me) and after shooting this and that, gravitated to a Glock 34. She does have a nasty little Ruger .380 for concealment; but better than that 5 shooter.

Namely that many of these people tend to treat a firearm as the be-all in and of itself without any actual investment of time and effort on their own part. "I want a firearm for protection" becomes "I have a firearm, I'm done now."

My neighbor is like that. He is a conspiracy theorist who says there are at least two islamoterrorist training facilities in each state. He wanted to upgrade from his snubby and .30-30 and so bought an entry level AR15. I took him to the range, demonstrated its operation and got him shooting it for a while. When I suggested a refresher, he assured me he know all about it.

 

[md7]

My advice is the same for anyone that’s a new shooter, regardless of age or sex.

If you’re able, then a Glock 19 is a simple, reliable solution and one that’s kind of an easy button choice for many.

If physical limitations or diminishing motor skills prohibit using a Glock 19, then they may wish to consider something like an EZ S&W or a 357 magnum revolver (it could be loaded with 38, if needed). Not a j frame! I’m thinking along the lines of a 686 or GP100 in 3” or 4” variety.

Having access to a range and using a variety of rentals would be helpful in the decision making process, if available.

And regardless of their choice everyone needs to commit enough trigger time to gain and maintain proficiency.

Off the cuff, that’s my .02 and would emphasize trying rentals if at all possible. They’ll figure it out from there

 

[doubleh]

For years my answer was "just let it kick". No biggie ror what I was doing and time back on target was no factor either. My thumb is still fine but my wrist has played out. Full house 357 is still doable fro a time but I don't really enjoy it now and 44 magnum Is a no-no. Just a couple of rounds and I am going to regret it for a couple of days. I have enough day to day pain so am not going to induce any I absolutely don't have to. The heavy Super Blackhawks do make excellent 44 special shooters though. I got off track for what to recommend for a woman but it does point out that heavy calibers are not great for most women. Shooting a gun should be enjoyable, not a painful experience, and you will shoot better.

 

[GEM]

For years my answer was "just let it kick". No biggie ror what I was doing and time back on target was no factor either. My thumb is still fine but my wrist has played out. Full house 357 is still doable fro a time but I don't really enjoy it now and 44 magnum Is a no-no. Just a couple of rounds and I am going to regret it for a couple of days. I have enough day to day pain so am not going to induce any I absolutely don't have to. The heavy Super Blackhawks do make excellent 44 special shooters though. I got off track for what to recommend for a woman but it does point out that heavy calibers are not great for most women. Shooting a gun should be enjoyable, not a painful experience, and you will shoot better.

If you want a revolver horror story, some guys in TX, near Bastrop, give a young boy a 454 Casull to shoot. The barrel recoiled back into his head and killed him due to what happened under his skull from the impact.

I think we all get (good comments) that the stopping power uber alles recommendations for beginners borders on malpractice in gun advice. Same with the typical shotgun 'enuf said' mantra. You need to know how to run these. Yep, a double barrel shotty. One might try an exercise of fighting through a house with one and more than one opponents. It's exciting - reload fun. I ended up butt stroking a pop up 3D humanoid target when it appeared after I shot two of them in a 3D live fire shoot house. The refs said that was legit as anything goes to get out of there alive.

If we are taking about the never shot but once underwear drawer gun - then a 38 SPL full sized revolver (not a snubby) with wadcutters is recommended by many but with the caveat that not training is a bad idea.

If you are going to take the time to get passed the one box at the square range - then Quality 9mms, taking into account hand size and grip, ease of racking - should run in a class or two. There are women oriented SD classes that avoid the Warrior Dude class. Cheap crap guns - pass on them. Safeties, will the untrained forget them in the extremes - it has happened. Untrained with a pump gun - screw up the rack - not uncommon - not even for trained folks when excited.

Went to a Vicki Farnam talk on how most men are full of crap when it comes to giving gun advice, esp. if they are not trained up themselves on women's issues.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Home Defense Firearm For A Woman​

How big and, more importantly, how mad is she?

 

[.308 Norma]

Home Defense Firearm For A Woman​

How big and, more importantly, how mad is she?

My wife is 5'1" and doesn't weight 120lbs soaking wet. Nevertheless, we completed the Idaho Enhanced Concealed Carry class together a couple of years ago, and when the smoke cleared after we'd each fired the required 100 rounds, the instructor (a county sheriff's deputy) looked at our two targets. His words to me were, "I wouldn't make her mad if I was you."

 

[Jim Watson]

That is a nasty crack I have heard too many times.

 

[SterlingBullet]

I suppose that's where something like a Ruger PCC Charger in 9mm could make a lot of sense, if that person can hoist a 5.5 lb. loaded firearm.

We have a PC Charger for sale at work right now. It is surprisingly heavy that throws off the balance of it. I’m guessing Ruger added weight to help with recoil. For whatever reason, it is an unwieldy pistol that just doesn’t feel right.

 

[drobs]

A lady friend of mine loves her Savage Axis 270 Winchester, that she won in a Charity drawing. She packs a Taurus Judge revolver. Last time I saw her I gave her 2 boxes of factory 200gr 45 Colt loaded to Cowboy velocities for her Judge. She also has a Ruger MK2 pistol.

She's a country girl with horses though. Horse people are crazy.
Ask a horse owner male or female, how many bones they've broken from horseback riding, and how recently.

 

[Gun-Reck]

Unless something has changed between my Bersa and that Bersa, it has a safety/decocker like a Beretta 92FS. Which means that little lever doesn't move back into the fire position automatically. The user has to make sure that lever is up when ready to fire.

Forward - is the default position.

Just use the lever to de-cock over a chambered round.

Then, moving it back forward leaves it on the 1/4-cock, double/single-action ready, like a revolver.

 

[Gun-Reck]

This past summer, an older friend of mine gave one of those Bersa 380's to his 60 something year old wife. I was out with them Jeep-ing in the National Forest, when they stopped to let her shoot it. I saw her take a 2 handed grip with her off hand thumb wrapped around behind the slide. I started waving my arms in the air yelled "STOP, STOP, STOP!!!!"

There were at least 2 other men standing right next to her with some firearms experience that were going to let her shoot that pistol that way. I told her you are going to cut your thumb / web of your hand if you fire it that way. She then said "well that's why I cut my hand on it last time!"

I then unloaded the gun and showed her a proper 2 hand grip and had her dry fire it a couple times before firing it with live ammo. There was an old car door propped up against a tree and she was able to hit it with most of the rounds in the magazine.

I don't recall seeing her work the slide on it. When I had her shoot it with live ammo, I worked the slide for her. Pretty sure her husband did the same previously.

What's the moral of this story?

You have show people how these guns work so they don't hurt themselves and... instruct them on safety.

That would go for any automatic pistol, no?

The BERSA FireStorm - has a generous beaver-tail delineating the "no-go" zone.

Have instructed several new shooters on this pistol, including a few women, to good effect.

Nothing mysterious about it.

 

[Beck]

Lots of women handle firearms better than men, and of course they all come in different shapes and sizes.

My ex was barely 5'2", very petite. A small frame "J-Frame" Taurus 5-shot Model 85 38 Special suited her perfectly. She didn't grow up around firearms like I did, but she took to it fairly quickly and with enthusiasm. For many years she loaded it with with CCI Blazer 125 gr HP +P. More recently I bought her some Hornady Critical Defense 110 gr FTX +P. She's a good shot.

Nice to stay friends with your ex. When you can buy your ex ammunition, load it for her and hand her the gun back, and then leave her house alive, you know you're friendship is solid.

 

[Old Hobo]

First up: Her hand size vs. frame size of handgun. If a rifle or shotgun is to be purchased, what is her arm length dimensions vs. stock dimensions? If a person is of a shorter stature, then a "youth model" stock may be called for. If a weapon doesn't fit the user. then they'll never be happy nor useful with that firearm.

Is the person adept with mechanical devices? How about hand strength? What I'm getting at is that if a person hasn't much hand strength or hasn't any real comfort with using mechanical devices, then this person is unlikely to ever be happy with nor useful with an automatic handgun.

And obviously, the recoil sensitivity issue comes up. Need I say more on the recoil topic. Never assume that she will "get used to the recoil." New gun owners often develop a flinch -- we all know this. The human nervous system is what it is.

The person's first firearm doesn't have to be their only firearm. Getting in practice is tantamount to firearms proficiency. So, why not first get this person a .22 with which to practice basic skills. At the same time or later on, acquire the service weapon of choice. Expensive, maybe; but then, we're talking about life-saving measures here and so expense might just have to take a second seat. Too, many gun shops have a range where handguns can be rented on an hourly basis. Rent a .22 for practice and for the development of "muscle memory"; later, move up to a weapon with more recoil. The person will now get more out of practicing with the service weapon purchased. All learning is incremental. Many .22 handguns come in the same frame size of higher caliber handguns. Choose a .22 whose frame matches that of the service weapon. Rimfire ammo is cheaper that centerfire = more bang for the buck (literally) = more practice.

Not practicing = danger

Ergonomics, ergonomics, ergonomics ... Again, the human nervous system is what it is and no more. We are wired / built as we are -- can't pretend to be anything else.
.

 

[skoro]

A couple of women in my community asked me about having a gun for protection, they live alone. (neither had any experience at all with firearms)
I had them over and spent the first 45 minutes on safety, proper handling and storage. One was fine with my P365, the other couldn't rack the slide on
the P365 or even my tiny KelTec .32, I've suggested a .38 Spl revolver for her. She asked about a shotgun because she was able to use the slide without difficulty, however, I explained the recoil may be a problem for her. I suggested she go to a range and take an introductory course and try both a revolver and perhaps the S&W MP EZ. Thoughts?

A S&W k-frame in 38 spl is always a good option.

 

[drobs]

That would go for any automatic pistol, no?

The BERSA FireStorm - has a generous beaver-tail delineating the "no-go" zone.

Have instructed several new shooters on this pistol, including a few women, to good effect.

Nothing mysterious about it.

There is no such thing as a "no-go zone" when the shooter has no training on how to properly hold / handle a semi-auto pistol.
My point was - new shooters, male and female, need to be instructed on the basics and safety.

 

[chicharrones]

Forward - is the default position.

Just use the lever to de-cock over a chambered round.

Then, moving it back forward leaves it on the 1/4-cock, double/single-action ready, like a revolver.

What do you mean by default? Does that mean that your Bersa has a spring loaded safety/decock lever that returns to the fire position by itself?

 

[doubleh]

Many years ago I was in a club that shot the indoor NRA 50' 22 RF course and we put on a youth training course for any kid interested. Even then we had just as many girls as boys. I quickly learned that girls listened to instructions and carried them out better than the boys did and became some of the best shots. We had, courtesy of the CMP, several heavy Remington target rifles and we also provided our personal rifles. Mine was a Winchester 69 A that I had rescued and turned into a decent rifle for the course and all the girls used it to qualify with simply because it was easier for them to shoot than the heavy Remingtons. They would line up and wait their turn to shoot it rather than use the too heavy for them guns.

The point I am trying to make is that women are just a smart as any man and don't have the male "I know how to do this so shut up" syndrome beginning in childhood. Women also exceed men in hand dexterity. Don't believe me? Try threading a needle as easily as a woman can. Strength is where the male dominates but that is only part of what makes up a skilled shooter. Let the shooter pick what they prefer, not what you do. Man or woman, we all have our preferences and abilities.

 

[Jim Watson]

OT Alert

Women also exceed men in hand dexterity. Don't believe me? Try threading a needle as easily as a woman can.

Which is why Heinlein recruited women as spaceship pilots in 'Starship Troopers'.