Homemade .410 brass shells (how??)

[41022collector]

Hey all I ran across these at Auction Arms.



"Up for bid, one box of Homemade Brass 410 shells. Don't ask me how they made them, I have no idea. They were made from 7MM mag and 264 mag brass, 9 264's and 11 7MM. Looks like some kind of paper on top of shell for wad, some have a "#5) wrote on them. Primed with a shotshell primer, not sure if 57 or 209's."


1. Does anyone know how these were made?

2. If you know, could or would you write a proceedure and process on how to make them to include, equipment and materials needed?

I am very interested in trying my hands at making these, I am just too much of a novice at reloading to know how w/o a proceedure and process instruction for them.

As you can see, they were made from rifle shells in 7mm and .264.

I would prefer to load #4, 6, Buck 00, 000 and slug, but for the process any size shot would do so I can learn.

You can write me here or at [email protected]

Regards,
Mike

 

[ranger335v]

I think the guess of what was used to make those cases is wrong. I'm not going to take time to look it up, bed time for me, but you can, I think .410 can be made from .444 Marlin.

 

[moosehunt]

Obviously, they turned the belts off in a lathe, leaving a flanged rim, then they drilled a hole for the shotgun primer, again on lathe--maybeso finished the primer pocket with an end mill, or maybeso not. Probably drilled a bigger flash hole. Then ran a neck expander in them (probably annealed first), then fireformed to smooth out. Seems like a lot of work to me! .410 cases ain't that hard to come by. Sounds like a project for someone with too much time on their hands!

When loading, crimp the overshot wad in with a .45 Colt die (others would work, that just comes to mind quickly).

 

[MMCSRET]

I load 444 cases and shoot them in single shot and double guns, won't feed in any of my repeaters.
Large rifle primer, 410 shot cup and 41 cal. gas check inverted for overshot. Loaded using 444 dies and data for 2.5" 410.
They work!!!

 

[SpamHandler]

Here's a link. http://www.endtimesreport.com/410reloading.html

 

[41022collector]

Thanks to all, this is exactly what I was looking for.

LOLOL I do have too much time on my hands actually. I am disabled from a Desert Storm wound from when I was in the Navy. Now I do Smith work, buy and sell pieces and get into the occasional impossible projects, but usually find a way to complete them on time and on budget.

For me, making some brass .410 shells and knowing how is just the ticket to keep me busy in down time and I have an honest to goodness use for them.

Regards
Mike

 

[41022collector]

Not a guess, the headstamps on the shown shells show the 7mm and .264. I am not knowledgable enough about the subject to confirm or dispute the photo, but the photo does show the two calibers on the heads.

Regards,
Mike

 

[rcmodel]

As Moosehunt correctly said, the belted mag cases were turned down in a lathe and primer pockets drilled for 209 shotgun primers.

That would not be necessary as Lg Rifle primers would work just fine in unmodified rifle cases.

These use Lg Pistol primers.
http://www.ballisticproducts.com/prodinfo.asp?number=3924165

rc

 

[moosehunt]

I don't know why, but this deal has kept my feeble mind stirring all day. Here are some more info/thoughts/ideas:
First off, just turning off the belt isn't really going to get it done. Best I can tell, a .410 case has a base diameter of about .475. Any of the belted mag cases (other than Weatherby) have a base diameter (not the belt) of about .510, or a skosh more. That means that one needs to turn down about .035 (maybeso a minimum of .025) off the basic case, at the base end. This is from the diameter, so maybeso .017 or a bit less per side. This is probably feasible, as the case thickness is fairly substancial down toward the base. If this isn't done, a belted mag case (belt removed) probably won't fit a .410 chamber.

Now, why use 7MM Mag or .264 Mag cases? If one is to go through all this BS, why not use .375 H&H cases (or 7MM STW or 8MM Mag or .416 Rem Mag or .458 LOTT). The .375 H&H would be a lot more available and cheaper than the others--not much more costly than 7MM mag cases. This gets one a lot closer to 3" (all those cases are approximately 2.85" in length), whereas the 7MM Mag or .264 Mag is only about 2.5". Also, it means a lot less neck expansion. It's not just the degree of expansion, per se, but the expansion from a .375 is going to leave one with a lot more remaining thickness in the neck than if a 7MM mag is used--and I'd wager that a lot of cases would split with this much expansion.

As to the primer, I don't see any reason to drill out to accept a shotgun primer. I'm not sure, but I wonder if one wouldn't go through the web in doing such. I would think that a large rifle magnum primer would surely suffice. I suspect that it would be desireable to drill out the flash hole to a larger diameter.
Just thoughts on this project for one with more time than they have use for.

Your thoughts, Mr. Model?

 

[SpamHandler]

From the above provided link, the suggestion is to use large pistol primers, as shotgun shells are low-pressure rounds. I'd certainly not use magnums for this endeavor.

 

[ThomasT]

In the link Spamhandler listed it talked about "waterglass" or sodium silicate for a sealer over the shot wad.

I have about 125 20ga brass shells my grandfather loaded and he sealed the overshot wads with water glass.

I looked on google but couldn't find any info on where to get this stuff. Does anyone know?

I am wanting a .410 real bad and would love to make some brass shell cases like that. I want a single shot and may send send my NEF back to have a couple of barrels fitted. One will be a 410.

 

[MMCSRET]

Go to your friendly, local pharmacist for "water glass". It comes in quart containers and is a little on the pricey side.
It has a tendency to shrink over time so don't put together a large stock of ammo for long term storage.
It does work, you'll have to experiment to get the results you're happy with.
Good shooting!!!!!

 

[ThomasT]

Thanks MMCSRET. Its funny but the shells I have from my grandfather are at least 30 years old. They might be 40 years old. No sign of any shrinking or anything else.

Someday I will shoot some and I hope the powder has held up as well as the waterglass sealer.

The info on google was pretty interesting if you get a chance to look it up. They use this stuff for all manner of things. I bet it can be found cheaper than at the pharmacy. The drive may make it not worth the hunt though. I have an Apothecary Shop in my town (Burleson Tx) and I will see if they have it.

 

[Seedtick]

I found this with google -

http://www.northlineexpress.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=5RU-146

Looks like water glass sealer can be had for about $22 per gallon.

ST

 

[MMCSRET]

I was introduced to it when I was a kid in 1949. My grandfather had a stationary engine out of a 1928 Durrant(sp) mounted on a skid that he used to run a belt for harvest and grinding feed. The water jacket had a small crack in it and he would put a new coat of "water glass" over the crack to seal it, had to do it ever so often. Never had antifreeze in it just water and it was drained out after every use in cold weather.

 

[41022collector]

LOL Moosehunt, thank you. I think I am going to go with the 444 Marlin rounds and do what is necessary to make some low power/pressure .410 shells for my American Derringer .410
Please, do not lose any more sleep on this. I have other more interesting projects to keep you up and scratching your head.

Regards,
Mike

 

[moosehunt]

I been think'in (dangerous!). There may be a reason and advantage to drilling these cases out to take shotgun primers. As I said, I think there is a good chance that one would drill through the web. I think that is no problem considering shotgun primer structure, and possibly a plus regarding my next thought. Once drilled out, one might be able to squeeze these cases down the needed .035 (that's only .0175 per side) by running them a sizer. I know the Pacific/Hornady DL-155 loaders have a sizing ring that I suspicion is carbide, but indeed may just be hardened steel. Might get the job done--worth a try I reckon. One may have to re-ream the primer pocket after the sizing.

 

[rcmodel]

Looks like water glass sealer can be had for about $22 per gallon.

A gallon of water-glass would be enough to seal the Governor of South Carolina in the state capitol building!
And also seal his zipper shut!

I used it for over-shot wad sealing years ago, and a little bitty bottle from the druggist was more then I could ever use up before it dried up.

Now, Elmer's Glue is a far better & cheaper alternative for sealing top wads in place.

rc

 

[ThomasT]

Thats funny RC.

I did use some Titebond glue the other day on some 20ga shells I loaded and it worked as well. I have used hot glue in the past. Its kinda slow though. At least it dries quick.