Horizontal carry and the four rules

[mljdeckard]

I got another safety briefing before a range last weekend (They are actually getting better) and the NCOIC made a comment that I had heard before, but it made me think about it in a different context. Something to the effect of: "You are responsible for your muzzle even when the weapon is cased or holstered."

I didn't say anything, but I have thought about this for a long time. My preferred carry rig is a 1911 in a Miami Classic horizontal holster. Any time I turn around, I'm probably flagging someone. The difference is, (OR SO I HAVE ALWAYS FELT,) is that the four rules apply to weapons actually being handled. When it's holstered, especially with a thumb break under the hammer, it is not a handling issue. I don't get the willies if I see someone else with the same setup turn their muzzle past me. I know some soldiers downrange keep shoulder holsters for convenience, but most of the ones I saw were vertical, not horizontal, and I could certainly see a local policy requiring ONLY vertical holsters. The range I shoot at only allows practice with shoulder holsters with specific written permission from management.

Bottom line, is horizontal carry a violation of safety rules?

 

[markk]

Bottom line, is horizontal carry a violation of safety rules?

No.
If you bend over at the waist and the pistol holstered on your hip points at something you are not willing to kill or destroy, is this a rules violation?
Of course not.

Is a holstered pistol in your nightstand which may or may not be pointing at something you are not willing to kill or destroy a rules violation?
Of course not.

Intelligent application of the rules trumps rote memorization and/or mindless repetition.

 

[Claymore1500]

I have actually noticed that SOME (notice I said SOME) people can be quite anal about where the muzzle is pointing, You can here them say that a gun cannot go off by it's self, someone has to pull the trigger, but then they see a horizontal shoulder holster and say OH my heart, your muzzle is pointing at everyone that gets behind you.

My take on it is this, you stop at a traffic light, your car is running, In gear and there are people in the crosswalk in front of you, do you then get the same feeling? I think not.

If you keep your guns in a gun cabinet "downstairs", do you put traffic cones "upstairs to keep people from inadvertantly getting over the muzzle? I think not.

You put the handgun in the glove box in your car, As you drive down the road, your muzzle is "flagging" everyone on the side walk, what's a person to do?

While some ranges may have a policy against shoulder holsters, and if you shoot there you have to follow thier rules, but as far as the 4 comandments I personally feel that you are safe.

 

[lesjones]

Carrying in the horizontal position isn't a safety violation per se. The four rules are for handling the gun.

In addition to the examples above, think about the glass pistol case at the gun shop. Each one of those guns has to point at someone as they pass by.

However, once your hand goes to the gun there is the issue that you may be sweeping someone with the muzzle. It ain't a deal killer, but it's something to think about.

 

[Loosedhorse]

As anyone who regularly carries in a horizontal shoulder-rig knows, it is possible to draw the weapon with the gun always pointing downrange once your hand touches it, without crossing your other arm.

Having said that, I have seen instructors place a right-handed shoulder-rig-user on the left-most position on the firing line, and pay A LOT of attention to that position.

What your instructor said is silly. However, if what he MEANT was, "Your gun must be pointed in a safe direction anytime your hand is on it--EVEN if it's still in the holster, even if it's still in the case," then I agree. Any "sweeping" of someone with the muzzle of a handled gun is going to get you bounced from the firing line, no excuses.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

As mentioned, the safety rules only come into play when the gun is being handled or fired. Also, just breaking one rule is not usually sufficient to cause an inadvertent discharge; more often you have to break two or more.

When you draw the gun from a horizontal/diagonal shoulder holster and violate the rules, it is possible to shoot your own arm or even someone behind you, whereas a belt holster will direct the shot into the ground (or your leg or foot, but not usually into a bystander). Quite a few ranges and training classes prohibit them for this reason. You can limit the amount of muzzle "sweeping" by keeping hand and arm movements to a minimum.

 

[Weedmonk]

Personally, I have never liked shoulder holsters from both a safety and weapon presentation perspective. To be very clear, my concern has nothing to do with the direction of the muzzle while holstered. It is about the arc that the weapon moves through when presenting the weapon to the target. This is not the case when presenting from strong side belt, IWB, or even ankle carry. The only other carry mode that is close to the "deadly arc" of a shoulder holster is the cross draw. Also, from a "lead on target" perspective, it is very easy to move the weapon past the target in the horizontal arc required by the shoulder holster. The use of a strong side holster produces more target area for the shooter when the weapon moves up from the feet, to the body, to the head.