It happened again today. A member on the line took a pistol out of the case, pointed it to the left and up at the head of the person next to him while he slid the plastic bag off of it. Slide was closed and mag in gun. (I've previously been on the muzzle end of someone doing the same think while locking the slide back on a just uncased 1911.) I did the usual. I immediately let him know what I observed. The man to his left did not notice (they were both uncasing guns). I advised the range officer who will identify him, also talk to him, and notify our chief safety officer. I left, because I did not feel safe. Beyond that I'm not certain what will occur, but I intend to check on it, because it happens all too often. This time and the last time it was experienced shooters (70's and 80's of age). This should be second nature to a seasoned shooter but apparently it is not. After one incident, a new member replied "it's not loaded". He quickly came to realize that was the wrong answer. I estimate that I've had guns pointed at me at least a half dozen times in 5 years, all at the same club. Does anyone else's experience approach that number?
How does your club deal with negligent gun handling?
- Status
CoRoMo
Member
No way. Never seen anything remotely like it.
Anyone at our club would be tossed right out for that stuff. Ours is an outside, non-staffed range, but most all members have a very strict pride about the place. Almost every member I've dealt with would have taken photos of the offenders' license plate numbers and attended the next board meeting in which the individuals in question were brought before a hearing of the incident. There would be no second chances for that extreme of behavior either.
Anyone at our club would be tossed right out for that stuff. Ours is an outside, non-staffed range, but most all members have a very strict pride about the place. Almost every member I've dealt with would have taken photos of the offenders' license plate numbers and attended the next board meeting in which the individuals in question were brought before a hearing of the incident. There would be no second chances for that extreme of behavior either.
First of all, age is no way to identify someone's skill or experience with a gun. Who's to say they didn't buy their first gun yesterday?
I've had more than a few unsafe instances at the range over the years. Each one has been addressed firmly but politely. If they don't get the general idea at that point, I pack up and go with a word to the RSO (if any) on the way out. To date, I have decided to leave on just one or two occasions.
In my experience, the average person at the range being unsafe has no idea they are so doing until it's pointed out to them.
I've had more than a few unsafe instances at the range over the years. Each one has been addressed firmly but politely. If they don't get the general idea at that point, I pack up and go with a word to the RSO (if any) on the way out. To date, I have decided to leave on just one or two occasions.
In my experience, the average person at the range being unsafe has no idea they are so doing until it's pointed out to them.
rskent
Member
Six times in five years. That's pretty good. The club I shoot at, probably most clubs, have a lot of new shooters.
They often don't fully understand the safety rules. Generally all it takes is a friendly word to get them to tighten up.
They often don't fully understand the safety rules. Generally all it takes is a friendly word to get them to tighten up.
lilguy
Member
Summer of 2014 a shooter at my club fired a 12 gauge blast into the cement floor of our club house. Thought he'd put a snap cap in the chamber. 4 people injured. Got media play. I was not there but it unnerved me. They ban snap caps now, shooter had to deal with police and lawyers. Not sure his club status.
SSN Vet
Member
The club I belong to does not usually have a range officer present, and each member is responsible to correct and/or report unsafe practices.
There is generous counter top space at each firing station, with room for your range bag, ammo and a pad to set your handguns on, so people are not usually handling their firearms unless they are standing at the firing line with their belly to the counter. This makes it very easy to keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.
Every once in a while, I'll get flagged by someone inspecting their handgun, (i.e. inspecting the barrel for leading), but if they have the mag dropped, chamber empty and slide locked back while they do so, I personally think it's a forgivable offense and might simply comment "let's keep em pointed down range fellas"
I'm fortunate to never have witnessed anyone commit an egregious safety violation (though I'm sure they happen), nor have I ever had anyone be impolite or snarky.
It's a great club and I consider myself lucky to only live 3 miles down the road from it.
There is generous counter top space at each firing station, with room for your range bag, ammo and a pad to set your handguns on, so people are not usually handling their firearms unless they are standing at the firing line with their belly to the counter. This makes it very easy to keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.
Every once in a while, I'll get flagged by someone inspecting their handgun, (i.e. inspecting the barrel for leading), but if they have the mag dropped, chamber empty and slide locked back while they do so, I personally think it's a forgivable offense and might simply comment "let's keep em pointed down range fellas"
I'm fortunate to never have witnessed anyone commit an egregious safety violation (though I'm sure they happen), nor have I ever had anyone be impolite or snarky.
It's a great club and I consider myself lucky to only live 3 miles down the road from it.
oneounceload
member
If you have ever been to a decent gun show, you've most likely been inadvertently swept hundreds of times in one day. Swept is one thing; someone firing rounds downrange when you are down there changing targets is not something I want to go through again - and I was wearing a blaze orange hunting coat at the time. Most respond better to kindness than some over-the-top hamhandiness. A little politeness might make you some new friends next time
My experience is in line with others. Safety violations are often from those we might assume would know better, but don't for whatever reason. Typically a firm but polite exchange will remedy the issue, with them coming away learning better habits and me feeling safer. Come to think of it, I've never gotten any other reaction in the 5-7 times in ten years that I've had such conversations.
Boomerang
Member
I have had to take a gun from someone by gently snatching it away when they were monkeying with it while people were downrange. Other shooters are to be behind the red line when people are downrange, and this guy stepped forward and started showing his guest and I had to step in. No big deal, but it's a violation and we don't have range officers. If you are a member of the club, you must say something if someone is acting in an unsafe way. The guy used the "what's the big deal? It's not loaded" phrase, which didn't work.
I had to tell a couple of police that they cannot handle guns behind the line and they were perfectly polite and thankful.
I'm not the authoritarian type and I find it difficult to step up and say something, but most people understand that safety is so important that there really is no legitimate argument when people are taken to point.
I had to tell a couple of police that they cannot handle guns behind the line and they were perfectly polite and thankful.
I'm not the authoritarian type and I find it difficult to step up and say something, but most people understand that safety is so important that there really is no legitimate argument when people are taken to point.
I am not against a loud "watch you muzzle!" for a violation, as the embarrassment factor can serve to reinforce the lesson. IMO. Additionally, we are not always within arms length or able to step out of the way, or another party may be in danger.
The Alaskan
member
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2015
- Messages
- 477
Nice topic. You guys are fortunate that people either handle guns safely and/or respond to correction.
I have to deal with the "I'm an Alaskan and I do what I want-F you" mentality. As well as the "gun safety takes the fun our of shooting" mentality.
Our range has one RO for 2-3 ranges, and he hangs out in the heated office and calls cease fires with an intercom system. He never actually comes out on to the range unless it's VERY busy.
I had a guy with his 6-7 yr old son walk down range without calling a cease fire, without notifying anyone-I was still shooting.
People pointing guns every which way is a norm. People handling guns at the line during a cease fire, with shooters downrange changing targets is a norm. (People leaving magazines in guns and bolts closed during a cease fire is not uncommon, either.)
It's a free for all. I'm actually afraid to correct anyone. Complain to the RO? What for? The usual reply is "No on has ever gotten hurt here." I hate going there and avoid it as much as I can.
I have to deal with the "I'm an Alaskan and I do what I want-F you" mentality. As well as the "gun safety takes the fun our of shooting" mentality.
Our range has one RO for 2-3 ranges, and he hangs out in the heated office and calls cease fires with an intercom system. He never actually comes out on to the range unless it's VERY busy.
I had a guy with his 6-7 yr old son walk down range without calling a cease fire, without notifying anyone-I was still shooting.
People pointing guns every which way is a norm. People handling guns at the line during a cease fire, with shooters downrange changing targets is a norm. (People leaving magazines in guns and bolts closed during a cease fire is not uncommon, either.)
It's a free for all. I'm actually afraid to correct anyone. Complain to the RO? What for? The usual reply is "No on has ever gotten hurt here." I hate going there and avoid it as much as I can.
CoalTrain49
Member
Someone would lodge a complaint with the e board. Member would be asked to attend an e board meeting. The charge would then be explained to him, negligent endangerment of other members. If we get another one you're OUT-A-HERE. They need more member openings anyway.
Howard Roark
Member
My club only allows experienced competitive shooters to become members. Range safety protocols that we all automatically follow during matches is required to be carried over when practicing.
Since we instituted this change we've had a safer environment and range abuse/destruction has been eliminated. No more shot up trash cans and flag poles.
Since we instituted this change we've had a safer environment and range abuse/destruction has been eliminated. No more shot up trash cans and flag poles.
jonnyc
Member
My range is usually pretty good at self-policing. I find most issues are with members' guests, and the once-a-year shooters who show up just before hunting season. A good stern, loud "notification" is usually enough. If it goes beyond that the club officers are very good about sanctions and revoking membership.
Quote: "Someone would lodge a complaint with the e board. Member would be asked to attend an e board meeting. The charge would then be explained to him, negligent endangerment of other members. If we get another one you're OUT-A-HERE. They need more member openings anyway."
That's no-nonsense.
That's no-nonsense.
orionengnr
Member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2005
- Messages
- 5,713
I'm not a member of a club.
I do frequent (and I mean several times per month) a number of local indoor and outdoor DFW ranges, and have for over ten years.
Must be lucky....the most dangerous gun-handling I've ever personally witnessed doesn't begin to cross the lines mentioned above.
I do frequent (and I mean several times per month) a number of local indoor and outdoor DFW ranges, and have for over ten years.
Must be lucky....the most dangerous gun-handling I've ever personally witnessed doesn't begin to cross the lines mentioned above.
243winxb
Member
negligent gun handling
In my 71 years, seen to many at the range to post here. I now pack my stuff and leave ASAP. Loaded guns coming into the shop, was another problem. Cant be to careful.
In my 71 years, seen to many at the range to post here. I now pack my stuff and leave ASAP. Loaded guns coming into the shop, was another problem. Cant be to careful.
Liberty1776
Member
My club is huge on safety. Every member is trained and takes turns working as RSOs. On public days, there are multiple (4-6) ROs on each range. We take it seriously...
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Me too, 71 that is.
And shooting most of my life.
I had a GI I was coaching shoot me in the leg with a .22 target pistol once.
He put a mag in the gun, aimed it at the target, and it went, snap.
So he whirled around, said 'Hey Sarge, it didn't shoot!' racked the slide, and pulled the trigger again.
It shot that time!
The whole thing happened faster then I could react, or see what was coming.
Never ever let one of those guys get an inch of footing on unsafe gun handling.
Cause sooner or later, one of those guns won't be 'unloaded'.
As for age?
Again, I'm 71 and have been shooting and Gunsmithing my whole life.
And never had an accident or ND.
But like they say, 'With familiarity comes contempt.'
I myself picked up an unloaded pistol a year ago, and with it pointing sorta at the floor between me and the guy I was showing it to, and racked the slide to double check just as I always do.
Imagine my surprise, shock, and horror when a .380 HP ejected out on the floor between us!!
No, my finger wasn't on the trigger.
But I would have bet my life that gun wasn't left loaded the last time I put it away!!
rc
And shooting most of my life.
I had a GI I was coaching shoot me in the leg with a .22 target pistol once.
He put a mag in the gun, aimed it at the target, and it went, snap.
So he whirled around, said 'Hey Sarge, it didn't shoot!' racked the slide, and pulled the trigger again.
It shot that time!
The whole thing happened faster then I could react, or see what was coming.
Never ever let one of those guys get an inch of footing on unsafe gun handling.
Cause sooner or later, one of those guns won't be 'unloaded'.
As for age?
Again, I'm 71 and have been shooting and Gunsmithing my whole life.
And never had an accident or ND.
But like they say, 'With familiarity comes contempt.'
I myself picked up an unloaded pistol a year ago, and with it pointing sorta at the floor between me and the guy I was showing it to, and racked the slide to double check just as I always do.
Imagine my surprise, shock, and horror when a .380 HP ejected out on the floor between us!!
No, my finger wasn't on the trigger.
But I would have bet my life that gun wasn't left loaded the last time I put it away!!
rc
bikemutt
Member
The range I shoot most at: go home for the day, at least. I've met many people who won't shoot there, they hate the rules. The high point of my day there is to leave under my own power, not on a stretcher, or gurney, I'm good with the rules.
entropy
Member
Our club is pretty much self-policing. (and indeed, more than a few members are LE) New members are sponsored by members, guests are there with a member. There was an ND thru the firing line roof once several years ago, it was swiftly and justly dealt with. (The guest who did it was banned, the member was on double secret probation for a while) I usually end up acting as RO when shooting there, (I was an Armorer and spent many qual/range sessions as Range NCO, as well as I'm currently a 4-H Shooting Sports Leader.) unless there's another member there with more experience at it; then I'm glad to relinquish the role.
I've shot there many times over the years; He ain't kidding......when I joined the Army, the ranges reminded me of that range; and it was good.
I've shot there many times over the years; He ain't kidding......when I joined the Army, the ranges reminded me of that range; and it was good.
Oldman1151
Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2013
- Messages
- 271
Time to find a new club.
Arkansas Paul
Member
My club is in a remote area and half the time when you go, you are the only one there. Occasionally there will be a few people there, but there is no range officer or authority figure there at all.
If that happened, I would certainly not be bashful about telling someone that I, nor others appreciate having a gun pointed at them on the line. If the officers of the club knew about it they would address the situation appropriately, but they wouldn't know about it unless it was reported via email or at a monthly club meeting.
If that happened, I would certainly not be bashful about telling someone that I, nor others appreciate having a gun pointed at them on the line. If the officers of the club knew about it they would address the situation appropriately, but they wouldn't know about it unless it was reported via email or at a monthly club meeting.
- Status
