How important do you rate a Heavy barrel over a Lite barrel for target shooting?

[Al LaVodka]

Yeah, a yellow Chevette is about as fast as a red Chevette, but not as accurate as my Cooper Arms with a medium heavy Shilen barrel. Know what I mean?

Go crazy and stop buying the cheapest and get Federal Gold Medal Match for about $11 a box (of 50) or Ultra Match, which is our Olympic Gold and Silver Medal award winning ammo, for about $18 a box. And stop whining -- compare these to decent CENTERFIRE cartridge prices! Even try the Match grade Aguila which is twice the price of the cheapest type, but, so what -- se what your gun can REALLY DO!!!

Al

 

[DasFriek]

Yeah, a yellow Chevette is about as fast as a red Chevette, but not as accurate as my Cooper Arms with a medium heavy Shilen barrel.
Know what I mean?
Al

Unfortunately im on a Chevette budget so not a bad comparison on that one.
But i may be able to upgrade to a Cavalier/CZ if im lucky.

Of course a more expensive rifle will shoot better than a lesser one, But it has diminishing returns. And for me a novice just getting into benchrest shooting i don't need a Corvette for my 16th birthday.

At 50 yards and great ammo your gonna need someone really good at measuring and math to show me a difference between the two guns, Am i wrong?

 

[Al LaVodka]

No u r not! Buy QUALITY, not QUANTITY in ammo. Same as gun -- best can reasonably afford. And shoot for REAL friend!

But if its a used 10/22 and WInchester 555 .22 packs. have fun!

Al

 

[DasFriek]

You know, I live on a low fixed income.
This is my 1 hobby i spend every spare cent on so i can enjoy it to the fullest.
But I WILL NOT just throw money around for the sake of it.

I want to have fun, Not eat Ramen everyday and walk to the range since my car would have no gas.
I think many people will agree a Savage or CZ will turn in more than respectful results with Wolf ME or Aguila MR

I need the best bang for the buck, Not the biggest buck for a perfect bang. WOW that sounds kinda raunchy in a way! lol

What im saying is i need to be smart and cautious and not make mistakes i cant afford.

I posted this in the other thread i have here, But this is what im looking for.
This is my Savage 93BTV .17hmr at 50 yards. Im extremely happy with its results.



Maybe you can beat that with some super uber expensive gun/ammo combo, But if i can do this with a .22lr ill be perfectly happy.

 

[DasFriek]

Update to this thread:
I decided to trade in my Savage 93BTV .17HMR for a few reasons, Mainly it wouldn't get used much anymore once i got a very accurate .22lr. And the price of ammo was a big detriment.

The gun i picked out and put in layaway, Which ill explain in a second is the
CZ452 Ultra Lux with 28" barrel.
This pic shows the stock on the gun im getting, As the one on CZ's site has a lump on the end of the stock which mine don't.
http://cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-452-ultra-lux/




Its in layaway since the NICS background check was delayed for some FN'n reason and the store im buying from makes you wait 8 days for an answer.
Ive bought over 12-15 guns in the last year, So many ive lost count as i sell and trade also. Plus i have my CCW license which means nothing in Ohio.
So at a maximum ill be waiting 8 days to get the gun, Luckily the outdoor range i use is open that day!

Im excited and mad all at the same time.
But thanks to this thread i chose this gun with a lite barrel over the Savage MKIIBTV .22lr they had used for $299.
Prior i would have chose the Savage due to the barrel and i really do like the thumb hole stocks. But the CZ Ultra Lux just looks like it could shoot bulls all day long even with junk bulk ammo with that barrel.

I got a Decent deal, $399 with $15 off and a free set of $30 scope rings. So $355 +tax isnt bad for such a nice gun.

 

[M1key]

EDIT: good choice ^^^

Quality made barrel with match chamber

Clean, crisp trigger

Quality scope with sharp optics and repeatable adjustments or quality iron sights

Quality, consistent match-grade ammo

Competent shooter with good eyes

All the above are more important than a heavy barrel

 

[DasFriek]

Well on the things i can control i think ill be making good choices also.
I have two scope, A Nikon Buckmasters 3-9x40 and a CenterPoint 4-16x40 and i honestly like the CP better. The Nikon only beats it in eye relief and eye position forgiveness. The CP wins with better magnification, great parallax adjustment and easier to dial in with its large exposed knobs, But not only that the Nikon is a Nikoplex crosshair and the CP has mil-dot reticles. Either way i have good optics to put on it.

As to ammo I and a friend who has an Anschutz tried some Aguila Match rifle i use and he liked it in his gun as well as Wolf ME. But ill be buying decent consistent mid priced target ammo. And trying as many as i can.

For shear accuracy im buying a good benchrest and try and get away from my sand bags ive been using. As for my eyes they aren't the greatest, But since im near sighted the scope corrects that so i see at 20/20 threw a scope.

I use rimfirecentral alot already so ill be digging into the CZ section and learning everything i can and what may need polished and if the trigger needs lightened.

Ill miss the sexy look of the BTV Savage, And its even possible the one they had in .22lr for $299 may have shot just as good as this CZ. But odds are it wouldn't so i felt spending the extra money on the right tool was the best decision.

 

[JpSnareGuy]

Barrel Harmonics ... "Barrel Whip" .... Look it up. there is a bit of info out there and a vid or two... But then again you are also shooting a .22. Maybe it won't matter for you you are going to be doing. Just a sugg. Maybe one reason.

 

[d2wing]

I have a CZ 452 like yours and it shoots dime size groups at 50 yards with Federal auto match ammo as well as Winchester target ammo.

 

[DasFriek]

I looked up barrel whip, Was an interesting read. Ive not read anything on how it can apply to a .22lr or not but im still looking.
I know the CZ guys at rimfirecentral.com don't see the 28" barrel being a bad thing.

d2wing- Ive been reading many people getting groups like that with HV ammo often. Not as much as Match ammo but its common none the less.

I really cant wait to try some HV ammo threw it at 100 yards since it should handle it better than SS ammo.
Its definitely gonna be hard to put the CZ down and pick anything else up at the range for a long while.

Im buying a decent benchrest with alot of adjustability, But ill also be shooting it just supported off the front and the rear on my shoulder to simulate real world shooting.

 

[M1key]

My best 100yd group was shot with that model 22 rifle. Five shot into just under 1/2 inch, at night, in a tunnel range, 3-9x scope. The ammo was Federal Gold Medal Match...

Have fun!

 

[DasFriek]

Wow, 3-9x is a little challenging even at 50 yards for me. I like 16x the best so far but that should be perfect for 100 yards also.
That ammo is some serious stuff, $20 a box here locally. I bought 2 of its cheaper brother at $7 a box and my 15-22 didn't like it since its somewhat a HV ammo right on the edge iirc.

1/2" dang thats awesome! Ill be all giggles at 50 yards with a dime group.

 

[Afy]

Barrel stiffnes is primary for accuracy.

 

[M1key]

I own the heavy barrel version of the above mentioned, the CZ 452 ZKM Varmint with 20 inch barrel. It shoots no better with the heavy barrel than the longer, thinner 28 inch barrel with the same ammo.

I do not believe the lowly 22LR at standard target velocites generates any significant barrel "whip" under most circumstances--at least enough to cause any real accuracy differences, unless we are talking about prolonged shot strings with a overheated barrel, on a hot day.

All other factors being equal, consistent quality match ammo, through a match grade barrel, with a uniform match chamber that is coaxial to the bore is more important.

 

[DasFriek]

I just picked up my CZ Ultra Lux 28" long broomstick today.
I stuck my CenterPoint 4-16x40 scope on it and have a good bore scrubbing to do yet tonight to get ready for its first shots tomorrow.
Im told CZ coats the bore heavily with preservative.

Pics will be forth coming once i can get finished with all the required work.

I have about 6 types of Match and subsonic ammo and 6 of HV ammo to try tomorrow.

 

[ms6852]

If you can get the heavy barrel get it. It will make a big difference at 100 yds and especially at 200 yds. I have the MKII gl model Savage 22lr which has a sporter barrel and a great accutrigger and is quite accurate at 100 yds but if it had a heavier barrel it would have smaller groups at 100 yds.

 

[flashhole]

"I just picked up my CZ Ultra Lux 28" long broomstick today.
I stuck my CenterPoint 4-16x40 scope on it and have a good bore scrubbing to do yet tonight to get ready for its first shots tomorrow. Im told CZ coats the bore heavily with preservative."

You were told right about the CZ bore. I have never seen so much gunk come out of a new gun barrel as I did my CZ. Clean it thoroughly and when you think you have it clean, clean it again. If you gun is typical of the CZ's I've seen you should get fine accuracy out of it.

 

[DasFriek]

ms6852- Im not so much sold on Barrel thickness as i am the quality of the barrel and chamber, Thats why i had no issue buying this 28" broomstick CZ with a somewhat thin barrel. It starts rather thick and tapers so its not so thin until the last 12 inches.

Yes, i spent double the time with a bore brush and swabs.
I also went in and lightened the trigger to about -1lb pull but i didn't shim it as it has such a short pull already i need to hunt some thinner shim stock.
Ive been nothing but impressed with the quality of the gun, You can really tell alot about a gun imo buy the stock where its been inletted and you pull it off.
They spend alot of time to even get the inside of the wood clean and no splinters and such.

Don't get me wrong, I have no issues against Savage. I loved my 93BTV. But this purchase i felt if i didn't buy the CZ id always be wanting and longing for a CZ to try. So i knew sooner or later id be buying one even if i bought the Savage this time.

Im heading to the range in about an hour and i don't think ive ever been so excited to try out a new gun for the first time.

 

[paducahrider]

CZ 452 Ultra-Lux is the right one!

Howdy.
I believe you'll be glad you got the Ultra-Lux version, rather than the "Trainer" version.
I personally like the stock shape w/cheekpiece and rounded upper buttstock with a bit of "drop".
It "works" for me, especially when shooting from a standing position.
I haven't kept up with all the CZ offerings lately, but I seem to remember that the trainer version doesn't have the adjustable trigger that the Lux does??.
CZ makes good stuff that has much less plastic than other brands, and the machine work is very good.
Their 22s and even the 527 centerfire seem like properly scaled-down Mauser-type actions, not just built-to-sell-cheaply creations.
Congratulations and enjoy!!
Thanks for your time.