Vern Humphrey
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It's the fifth time that counts. If you go to an audiologist, you'll be shocked by the results.
How short a barrel for .243?
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.308 Norma
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I didn't know that. Was it the 660 or the 600 that was also called the "Mohawk?" That was the one my wife had.
Edited - I stand corrected. My wife's .243 was a Model 600, Mohawk. It had the rib on top of its 18.5" barrel.
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Newtosavage
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I have a slow twist 7mm-08 barrel that is basically a throw-away as it's not going to bring much more than it costs to ship it. I think I'll just lop it down to 18.5", recrown and see how it likes 120's at that length, around 2750 fps.
I guess you didn't read my posts. I have been to audiologists for over 25 years now, usually annually as required by my employer. I wasn't surprised at what she found 27 years ago actually.
Vern Humphrey
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Sorry -- but for those reading this, the point is that ONE experience that leaves your ears ringing or "temporarily" deaf means permanent damage.
Newtosavage
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I have four rifles in 308. Two have 22" barrels, one is 18" and the newest one is 20". One of the 22" barrels is consistently 25 fps faster than the other. The 18" barrel is only about 60 fps slower than the faster 22" barrel and only 30ish fps slower than the other 22" barrel. I've only had the 20" barrel for a short time, one range trip, and didn't shoot it over a chronograph.
I've seen this many times before with other rifles and cartridges. You'll quite often see a greater difference between 2 different barrels of the same length than 2" of barrel makes. I've seen over 130 fps before with ammo fired from the same box in 2 different guns with equal barrel lengths. I've seen specific 20" barrels shoot faster than a specific 22" barrel. And I've seen 22" barrels be 100 fps faster than a 20" barrel. The only numbers that are relevant are those from the same barrel as it is cut shorter. It depends on the cartridge, but 15-25 fps/inch is norm for most cartridges. Some that are overbore might be in the 25-35 fps range. I've never seen any documented case of anyone losing more than 35 fps when a barrel was cut 1" shorter.
A 243 will lose a little more speed than 7-08 or 308. But probably not nearly as much as most think. The only way to know for sure is to measure velocity from the same barrel before and after cutting. Whichever way you go It'd be nice if you could do that and report the results. I'd guess 100-150 fps with 4" less barrel in a 243.
Noise? Shooting any center fire cartridge without hearing protection will damage your hearing. Having it be a little bit louder may be more annoying, but probably no more damaging. Hearing loss usually comes in small steps. The damage is gradual and we don't notice it for a while.
I've seen this many times before with other rifles and cartridges. You'll quite often see a greater difference between 2 different barrels of the same length than 2" of barrel makes. I've seen over 130 fps before with ammo fired from the same box in 2 different guns with equal barrel lengths. I've seen specific 20" barrels shoot faster than a specific 22" barrel. And I've seen 22" barrels be 100 fps faster than a 20" barrel. The only numbers that are relevant are those from the same barrel as it is cut shorter. It depends on the cartridge, but 15-25 fps/inch is norm for most cartridges. Some that are overbore might be in the 25-35 fps range. I've never seen any documented case of anyone losing more than 35 fps when a barrel was cut 1" shorter.
A 243 will lose a little more speed than 7-08 or 308. But probably not nearly as much as most think. The only way to know for sure is to measure velocity from the same barrel before and after cutting. Whichever way you go It'd be nice if you could do that and report the results. I'd guess 100-150 fps with 4" less barrel in a 243.
Noise? Shooting any center fire cartridge without hearing protection will damage your hearing. Having it be a little bit louder may be more annoying, but probably no more damaging. Hearing loss usually comes in small steps. The damage is gradual and we don't notice it for a while.
Newtosavage
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jmr40, I'm sitting here trying to decide whether I want to cut down the 7mm-08 barrel I'm not currently using, or get a .308 barrel to cut down. Still not sure yet. But you're right about different rifles varying as much or more than different barrel lengths. That 7mm-08 barrel I'm thinking of cutting down has a tight chamber, and was routinely 50-75 fps. faster with the same exact load as my Tikka 7mm-08. I could count on it, no matter what the load was. It did however get pressure signs well before the listed max, which is why it's a good candidate for being chopped and dropped - so to speak. Dropped in the sense that I would load it down specifically for our little Southern deer.
Varminterror
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'Round about 2014, I rebuilt a Rem 700 in 243win as a lightweight, up-to-no-good, truck/quad/bike bound hunting rifle. I bought a Walmart ADL for $350, sold the barrel, stock, and trigger for $150, cut a Shilen short chambered sporter weight barrel to 16.2", threaded for a linear compensator, dropped it into a Richard's microfit stock with a timney trigger and PTG bottom metal. I put a Bushnell Elite 4200 4-16x40mm AO on top in Leupold Dual Dovetail rings and mount.
It was a beautifully wicked, light weight, fast handling dealer of song-dog death. A friend decided he wanted it more than I did, so a deal was struck.
"Efficient" only matters if you're trying to reach super long ranges. "Loud" is really only relevant if you're not wearing ear pro like you should (the linear compensator helps a LOT).
I also have a 243win Savage Striker, which is quite possibly my second favorite Specialty Pistol I've ever fired. It's a 14" with a radial port brake, it barks pretty loud, but any specialty pistol is going to bark loudly. My first 300 WSM pistol had a 15" barrel - THAT was loud, and the ball of fire swarming out of the end was remarkable, even in daylight.
WHAT TO WATCH FOR WITH A SHORT 243WIN is the barrel twist. A guy can't feed 115 Dtac's to a bobbed factory barrel with a 1:9.25" or 1:10" and expect good results. I typically run 85-90's in mine, and I'm quite happy, clear out to 1,000yrds.
It was a beautifully wicked, light weight, fast handling dealer of song-dog death. A friend decided he wanted it more than I did, so a deal was struck.
"Efficient" only matters if you're trying to reach super long ranges. "Loud" is really only relevant if you're not wearing ear pro like you should (the linear compensator helps a LOT).
I also have a 243win Savage Striker, which is quite possibly my second favorite Specialty Pistol I've ever fired. It's a 14" with a radial port brake, it barks pretty loud, but any specialty pistol is going to bark loudly. My first 300 WSM pistol had a 15" barrel - THAT was loud, and the ball of fire swarming out of the end was remarkable, even in daylight.
WHAT TO WATCH FOR WITH A SHORT 243WIN is the barrel twist. A guy can't feed 115 Dtac's to a bobbed factory barrel with a 1:9.25" or 1:10" and expect good results. I typically run 85-90's in mine, and I'm quite happy, clear out to 1,000yrds.
Art Eatman
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My Sako Forester carbine in .243 has a 19" barrel. I've tagged some two dozen bucks with it. All bang-flops.
Yeah it's loud. And at night when shooting a coyote, it lights up the world quite nicely, albeit briefly.
But it's a handy little seven-pound critter.
Yeah it's loud. And at night when shooting a coyote, it lights up the world quite nicely, albeit briefly.
But it's a handy little seven-pound critter.
Newtosavage
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I'll be shooting for 6 lbs. and 6.5 lbs. with a scope. With the reduced loads, the recoil should still be very pleasant.
I do love a short, light rifle.
I do love a short, light rifle.
someguy2800
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I was curious so I found this. A 100 grain 6mm bullet @ 2480 fps does not an interesting deer rifle make, IMHO.
https://rifleshooter.com/2016/04/243-winchester-effect-of-barrel-length-on-velocity/
https://rifleshooter.com/2016/04/243-winchester-effect-of-barrel-length-on-velocity/
I saw this a while ago in a GUNS Magazine review of the .243 Ruger American Compact (18" barrel).
The average energy of these 7 factory loads from the 18" barrel was 1,654 ft lb.
Interesting considering that a 6.8 SPC will make 1,600 ft lb from a 16" barrel.
They have the article online: http://fmgpublications.ipaperus.com/FMGPublications/GUNS/GUNS1115/?page=54
js8588
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18 inch barrel with 100 yards more effective range than you'll get from a 7.62x39?
Sounds like a 6.5 Grendel to me.
Sounds like a 6.5 Grendel to me.
Corn-Picker
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You know what’s more efficient than a 308 Win from a 20” barrel? A 358 Win from a 20” barrel Hornady sells 200 grain 358 Win ammo for $1.30/cartridge, gets ~2500 fps from a long barrel and shouldn’t lose much in a shorter barrel. Recoil might be a little stout from a lightweight rifle.
Hornady sells 200 grain 358 Win ammo for $1.30/cartridge, gets ~2500 fps from a long barrel and shouldn’t lose much in a shorter barrel. Recoil might be a little stout from a lightweight rifle.Newtosavage
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If only I could get a 6.5 Grendel barrel for my Savage for $75 like I can a .243 or .308
That's the only caliber that would make me break down and rebarrel my Savage 7.62x39.
TN Outlaw
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Id go with the .308win.
You have the x39mm and the dirty 30 to share bullets with, they tend to lose less velocity in 18"-20" bbl's, its hard to go wrong with a 30cal for putting meat on the table well past 300yds, and id rather give the .243 & 7-08 more bbl so they can really shine with heavier bullets. It would be between the 7-08 or 308 for me and id choose 308 in your position.
You have the x39mm and the dirty 30 to share bullets with, they tend to lose less velocity in 18"-20" bbl's, its hard to go wrong with a 30cal for putting meat on the table well past 300yds, and id rather give the .243 & 7-08 more bbl so they can really shine with heavier bullets. It would be between the 7-08 or 308 for me and id choose 308 in your position.
Newtosavage
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Either the 7mm-08 or the .308 would make sense really. I already load for 7mm-08 and have no plans to ever change that. On the other hand, I use 160 FTX 30-30 bullets for my Win 94 and my bolt action 7.62x39, and have no plans to change that either. Thing is... I already have a spare 7mm-08 barrel on hand that's just begging to be cut and crowned. I suppose I could try to swap it for a .308 though.
TN Outlaw
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If that 7mm-08 is what has your attn, cut'n'crown her! No doubt it would do the trick for you. 6 one way, half dozen the other really. Theres not a critter in the woods that would know the difference. Should have a little less recoil than the 308 in most cases too.
Either one would be a handy lil gem at 18"-18 1/2". I would just prefer a 308 in a short bbl just because of how much the 7mm-08 seems to shoot above its head in a longer bbl when it can really stretch its legs.
Either one would be a handy lil gem at 18"-18 1/2". I would just prefer a 308 in a short bbl just because of how much the 7mm-08 seems to shoot above its head in a longer bbl when it can really stretch its legs.
Newtosavage
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Looking at the charts, a 120 grain Sierra coming out of that 18.5" 7mm-08 barrel at 2700 fps. would put me right where I want to be. Target amount of energy at 300, and matches the ballistic reticle in my scope. So I think that's where I'm going. Thanks!
Gordon
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IMHO of dealing with Remington 600s for 40+ years and the .243 a little longer : I would stay away from .243 barrels shorter than 20" if possible and 22" is a good short length. The .243 Win is NOT a .308 or even a 708 by any means when it comes to using short barrels, trust me. Sure they work , but you are losing quite a bit in the overbore .243 at 18" . I did NOT build my new AR10 in that caliber even tho I really wanted to as I did not want to go to the 24" barrel that really heats a .243 up. I have 3 .243s and they have 22", 24" and 26" barrels of various weights.
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Id go with the 7-08 personally, and a 20" barrel.
I cut my 6x47 down to 20" and thats about as short as i i think im inclined to go. Ive handled a couple 18.5s and a 16.5 and that feels too short to me. Weight ends up too far back also, atleast with a standard taper sporter barrel. The 16.5 was a custom built ultralite, and balanced wonderfully, but i really didnt like that short tube.
I cut my 6x47 down to 20" and thats about as short as i i think im inclined to go. Ive handled a couple 18.5s and a 16.5 and that feels too short to me. Weight ends up too far back also, atleast with a standard taper sporter barrel. The 16.5 was a custom built ultralite, and balanced wonderfully, but i really didnt like that short tube.
TN Outlaw
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Wow, i dont blame you then! That sounds like a good "critter gitter" velocity/caliber/wt combo.
I figured the 7mm-08 would lose more out of a short tube. Like down to 2500fps MV or a little more. At 2700fps you should still have enough speed at 250-300yds for the bullets to expand just fine with proper selection.
Good luck and enjoy!
Why stop at 18", wouldn't 16.5" be better if legal?
Newtosavage
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The 120 Sierra's are going 3000 fps. out of my 22" 7mm-08 barrel with a less than max load of IMR 8208 XBR. So I figure dropping a few inches off the barrel, then perhaps backing off in charge (if I even need to) should put me right at that 2700 fps. number. That's a very good number for what I'm trying to do, with that specific bullet. If I used the 120 BT's, I could go even slower but the Sierras are supremely accurate for me and their performance on deer this season is without question. What a great little bullet that is for whitetails.
I'm thinking the .243 isn't a great short-barrel cartridge. If you're building a rifle, maybe you should consider a somewhat slower cartridge that would be less-affected by short barrel length, like some of the more popular deer cartridge like .30 Rem, or .35 Rem.
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