How tall a Creedmore sight for a Pedersoli 45-70?

[rbethune]

The Creedmore sights for the Pedersoli rifles come in three sizes - 2", 3", and 4". The two-inch sight gives you 2" of elevation, and so forth. I'm trying to decide which to get for a John Bondine rolling block in 45-70.

Black powder cartridges. 405 grain or 500 grain loads. Sight radius 34 inches.

The range where I do 95% of my shooting is limited to 100 yards. I do have access on occasion to a range that goes out to 600 yards. Someday, someway, I suppose I might attempt to shoot this black powder rifle at 1000 yards.

Do I really need the 4-inch sight? Would the 3-incher do? What about the 2-incher--what would be the maximum range?

 

[TomADC]

Unless you are looking for a high end sight, try this link there are the US distributor for Pedersoli, I just bought a replace sight for my Officers model Springfield from them, they answer emails fast and it took two days to get the replacement sight cost $75.00 plus $9.95 shipping.
Easy to deal with.
http://www.flintlocksetc.com/

This site is Pedersoli's and it where I found my sight, I got the part number and sent it flintlocksetc and they shipped right away. http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/

 

[Jim Watson]

You have to consider where it is measured from and what the drop of the stock does to the line of sight. But just to give you an idea, the Baldwin Midrange on my Winchester has 2.5" of elevation adjustment and has some remaining at 600 yards. The Soule windage drum sets it up higher than the Creedmoor style with windage at the eyepiece if at all. I would consider the 3" Pedersoli to be comparable and would get nothing shorter if you have access to 600 yards. But if you then go to 1000, there is little more frustrating on the rifle range than to run out of sight adjustment and still be hitting low.

Dick Trenk, the Pedersoli US rep says:

The adjustable "Hadley type" eye cup is code USA463 and it has 8 different pin holes sizes. This type of multi-hole eyecup is the choice of advanced shooters everywhere.

Hooded front sights accept all Pedersoli inserts cards. The card USA408 provides 12 "lollypop" type rings plus 3 posts. The card USA424 provides 11 "lollypop" type rings plus 7 posts. The card USA425 provides 12 assorted types of aiming shapes including 3 "lollypop" type rings.

For serious match target use we recommend the Soule type tang sight and the code USA426 hooded front sight which has both a spirit level and windage adjustment feature.

Other more conventional "vernier adjustable elevation" tang sights provide accuracy and quality precision which is suitable for hunting and target work out to long ranges. All Pedersoli main dealers and their sub-dealers can order from their distributors who either have the item in stock or can get it very quickly in their monthly stock orders.

Select your tang sight staff length according to the distance you expect to shoot at.

Using common ammunition velocities the following ranges are generally obtained with the staff lengths listed:

4.0 inch will allow shooting to at least 1600 yards.
3.0 inch will allow shooting to at least 1100 yards
2.5 inch will allow shooting to at least 400 yards

Which sounds kind of ambitious to me, but there it is from the company representative.

 

[Ratdog68]

Well... my thoughts on it are... you can only use what you have. If you have the 4"... you can use it all... if you have the shorter ones... you can only use what they have. Ahhh.... to be a young buck with great eyesight again !! Danged bifocals anywho. LOL

 

[sundance44s]

buy the best quaility sight you can afford ...some of the cheaper models are a pain in the arrs .....just my 2 cents from learning the hard way .

 

[rbethune]

I finally found a good picture of the Bondine rifle with a Creedmore attached at http://www.westernshootingsupplies.com/page23.htm and what really stands out for me is how much of the sight you lose becaus the tang is a good ways below the line of the barrel. So it pretty much looks to me as though the 4" sight is really the only way to go, and I think I like the Soule version better--better windage knobs--even though it's more expensive.

 

[Jim Watson]

A large majority of BPCR shooters I see use Soule sights, the big drum knob is convenient. A few use the vernier windage Hoke, some use the earlier sights with a little bit of windage at the eyepiece.

 

[rbethune]

By the way--if you're looking for a great deal on one of these rifles, Cabela's has them on sale for $999.99. No Creedmore included. Go to the Cabela's website and use the search box, set it for "Gun Library" and enter "Bondine." Or just go here:

Very long URL:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/c...EFEIWE?categoryId=SEARCH_gl&_requestid=102313

This shorter version might work:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/c...kansas_city/sale_rack/20021386_ped4570_kc.jsp

Thanks, everybody!

 

[arcticap]

To give you an idea of how the rear sight movement affects the point if impact at 600 yards, I plugged some numbers into a formula.
I hope the results are correct and I have no idea what the bullet drop actually is at 600 yards.

At 600 yards, moving the point of impact 20 feet with a sight radius of 34 inches would require that the rear sight be moved .3777 inches, or .18888 inches for 10 feet.
If the sight radius is 38 inches, then to move the point of impact 20 feet would require the rear sight to be moved .42222 inches, or .21111 inches for 10 feet.

So it does matter how high the rear sight needs to be raised to be initially zeroed, and to a lesser extent how far behind the barrel the sight is positioned. Also the height of the front sight can affect the position of the rear sight when zeroed.

 

[rbethune]

I was playing with some of those same numbers. I was a bit hindered by lack of any real information about the ballistic coefficients of typical bullets used in black powder cartridges, but I just sort of guesstimated and came up with result similar to yours. The 34-inch sight radius looks to be about what I'll end up with. I think the key factor is the amount the sight needs to come up on the ladder from the tang just to get to the line of the barrel--that and the "if' you don't have it, you can't use it" philosophy.

 

[BCRider]

Based on the 5 degree angle results in that Shiloh Sharps test thread running here just now you'll want a sight that's tall enough to allow you a 5 to 7 degree rise angle of the barrel. That'll allow you to carry out to 1000 yards and a little beyond regardless of loads. Which you select is going to then be based on the distance the mounting point will be below the top of the barrel and if the sights are measured by overall height or the max rise of the peep hole.

 

[arcticap]

If the rear sight was too short the base could be shimmed or exchanged for the taller one before the final installation.

 

[Jim Watson]

I've seen a picture of one like that, a tang sight on about a quarter inch spacer to get extra elevation. Lot simpler just to buy a tall enough sight to start with.

 

[Ratdog68]

FYI...

http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/eshop/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=A1711

 

[rbethune]

Here's the sight I've fixed my mind on. It's the Pedersoli Soule 4-incher. It's expensive, but it's made by the same people who make the gun, and I do liike that.

http://www.noosashooters.com/products_image.php?image=image_467.jpg

 

[Fairshake]

It also matters what length bbl you have. The 30 in bbl does not need near the elavation that the 34 in bbl needs. I just purchased the Soule 4 in sight shown by rbethune in the boxed set. It comes with the globe front that also has windage adjustment along with the Hadley eye cup and front inserts. Also has about eight little bubble vials of different colors for the front globe. I'm putting it on my Competition model Pedersoli 1874.