45-70-500 underrated as a hunting round

[Jackrabbit1957]

So true Ugly Sauce, so true, been shooting mine for quite some time now, when the range gets out past about 250 yards I start looking for the range finder. Other side of the coin, don't ya love it when someone thinks 100 yards is equivalent to a quarter mile?

 

[dickydalton]

Actually, the problem is not trajectory, it is range estimation. Very very very few people can judge range even halfway well. Sighted a bit high at 100, the .45-70 will work out to 200 very well, IF, if if if if you can actually tell the difference between 200 yards and 300 yards. Most people can't.

I was using a range finder, but carry on.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

A range-finder makes all the difference. But I was not suggesting anyone here was poor at estimating range, I was referring to people in general. If that was what you thought. ??

 

[Slamfire]

You have to shoot the thing and then back up, to understand just how much a 45/70 bullet, going at blackpowder velocities, drops. I shot offhand on my gong target at 100 yards, backed up fifty yards and the 405 grain bullet had dropped about 12 inches. A ballistic calculator shows with a 100 yd zero, the bullet drops 25" drop at 200 yds, 82" drop at 300 yds. Range estimation has to be really on beyond 100 yards. That is possible with modern range finders, but on game, does anyone have the time to measure distance, then figure out how many MOA to put on the rear sights?

 

[Ugly Sauce]

You have to shoot the thing and then back up, to understand just how much a 45/70 bullet, going at blackpowder velocities, drops. I shot offhand on my gong target at 100 yards, backed up fifty yards and the 405 grain bullet had dropped about 12 inches. A ballistic calculator shows with a 100 yd zero, the bullet drops 25" drop at 200 yds, 82" drop at 300 yds. Range estimation has to be really on beyond 100 yards. That is possible with modern range finders, but on game, does anyone have the time to measure distance, then figure out how many MOA to put on the rear sights?

I think, but could be wrong, that a good cool shooter, with the rifle sighted high at 100, who remembered to shoot low at 100 or closer, could do that. To consider that shot in the first place the game would not be aware of you, and be standing or grazing, so I think one could get out the range finder and get a fix. Then if one was not in a hurry to make the shot, set your sights, get a good rest, I think that would/could work. Personally I would not even want to shoot at something over 200 yards. I'd like to think I'm sneaky enough to get within 200 at least. For those times you can't, hey, let it go. Hunt it another day. Or next year. Just say: "dagnabbit, almost got him!".

And of course, to make 200 yard killing shots on game with any rifle, you have to actually shoot it at 200 yards. Many shooters cannot hit (or keep all their shots) (on) a paper plate at 200 no matter how accurate or flat shooting the rifle is. Let alone a .45-70.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Sauce, you make an excellent point, practice, practice, practice. I was shooting Jackrabbits regularly with a pistol in Nevada and making some really decent shots, the population died off and there was nothing to shoot at. Now 3 years later I can't hit the side of a barn from inside. I just don't have the time to get out on a regular basis so no practice sessions.

 

[Snidely70431]

Sauce, you make an excellent point, practice, practice, practice. I was shooting Jackrabbits regularly with a pistol in Nevada and making some really decent shots, the population died off and there was nothing to shoot at. Now 3 years later I can't hit the side of a barn from inside. I just don't have the time to get out on a regular basis so no practice sessions.

40 years ago I was on a National Guard pistol team. They issued me two accurized 1911A1's, a .38 S&W and a .22 target pistol and all the ammo I cared to shoot. Since then I have not shot much, but I do not have any problem hitting what I aim at when I do go out. Once a person has the fundamentals of proper sight picture, grip and trigger pull, one does need to not lose them. I do not have the physical ability to shoot as well as I once did, but for all practical purposes I do not need it.

 

[Slamfire]

And of course, to make 200 yard killing shots on game with any rifle, you have to actually shoot it at 200 yards. Many shooters cannot hit (or keep all their shots) (on) a paper plate at 200 no matter how accurate or flat shooting the rifle is. Let alone a .45-70.

You have to talk to the Range Masters at CMP Talladega and hear their stories. Guys show up with very expensive rigs, because they have "learned" in the popular press, that you can compensate for a lack of shooting skills by spending money. And these unfortunates can't group their shots. Lever action shooters, you have to have all your shots in the black at 200 yards, before they let you shoot your lever action at 300 yards. And then, no one gets to shoot their lever actions at the 600 yard target, because of all the damage lever gun shooters have caused to the target frames.

And, the big ass boomers, such as those tyrannosaurus cartridges, they are banned. Sure the cartridges are capable of excellent accuracy, if only the shooters had their eyes open, and were not bucking like a broc, before they broke the trigger!

I do want to say, I cannot shoot my 35 Whelen as well as my 30-06 or lesser recoiling rifles. Less than a magazine in, shooting a 225 or 250 grain bullet going 2500 to 2700 fps, and I have a severe flinch that will not go away.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I used to be able to shoot about four good groups with my .338WM before the groups would mysteriously begin to "open up".

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Sauce, you make an excellent point, practice, practice, practice. I was shooting Jackrabbits regularly with a pistol in Nevada and making some really decent shots, the population died off and there was nothing to shoot at. Now 3 years later I can't hit the side of a barn from inside. I just don't have the time to get out on a regular basis so no practice sessions.

Dang it Jackrabbit! Shooting your namesake? Now I wonder why that population died off?? Back in Southern Cal when I was a wee teenager, my friends and I all got Hi-power rifles, (Mausers, .30-30's, etc., I had a 7X57mm) and we'd go out in the desert and shoot them Jackrabbits. That is some good moving target practice, and we got fairly good at it I think. It sure was fun and kept us out of real trouble. (we weren't always "safe", but no one ever got any body parts shot off, or worse)

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

I was only partially responsible for reducing the jackrabbit population, they go through a cycle of population explosion then a big die off about every 7 to 8 years. When I first moved to northeast Nevada they were at the peak of population. Darned things were everywhere, state wanted them gone so you didn't need a hunting license or need to be a resident to hunt them. Then about 3 years ago they suddenly died off, you couldn't find one if your life depended on it. I shot em with .22 s, shotgun, then switched to black powder revolvers and rifles. That's the only thing I really miss about Nevada.