How the 6.5 Creedmoor Changed shooting forever!

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horsemen61

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Hello Everyone :)


I am making this thread to discuss what/when/were/Why/how

The 6.5 Creedmoor changed the Landscape of shooting forever!

a little backstory I didn’t get into shooting much till the middleish of the last decade. I hunted I knew some about most deer rounds not enough.

In doing my research it seems that the 6.5 Creedmoor caught on from the beginning with the target shooting crowd and slowly has grown into the Awesome all around cartridge it is today to include but not limited to
Target shooting
Hunting
Plinking
First deer rifle
Elk rifle

So my question to y’all is how in your opinion has the 6.5 Creedmoor changed the shooting landscape forever?
 
I think the creedmoor may be the first cartridge that EVERYONE in the industry got behind. Rifle makers, ammo makers, competitive shooters and hunters. When every brand will build one, and they all shoot, it makes sense that it got popular. And it may be one of the best designed cartridges ever for it's platform. It was thought out to push the extremes when designed, unlike its predecessor the 260 rem. All in all, it doesn't do any one thing new, but it does almost everything right. Its just well balanced, and that doesn't require a nitch. I don't own one yet, but I will probably end up with one later on just because of market saturation.
 
I have that caliber in a RAR predator. I could get by with it as my only hunting rifle, and I would if I wasn't so attached to my 243.
 
Reproducing the ballistics of a 100 year old cartridge in a slightly shorter case so that it can then be used frequently in heavy, long range bench and otherwise rested rifles?

Great marketing for sure.

No marketing involved at all. The round has NEVER been advertised. It is selling strictly by word of mouth. This was a case where shooters went to Hornady and laid out what they needed. In fact had been doing with customized rifles and ammo in 260. They asked Hornady to make it happen with off the shelf ammo that could be used in off the shelf rifles.

The problem with the 6.5X55 which you refer to has to do with non standard dimensions and barrels in a 100+ year old cartridge and poor performance from factory loads. The 6.5X55 COULD match 6.5 CM, but only with custom built rifles shooting non standard handloads.

I think it is the most balanced cartridge to come out in my lifetime. Sure, the 260 and 6.5X55 are capable of similar performance, but as stated above, not with off the shelf rifles and ammo. Being able to walk into a store and pick up a sub $400 rifle and a $15 box of factory loads and do anything you can do with a 270 in the hunting fields with 1/3 less recoil will appeal to hunters. Then use the same rifle and a $30 box of match ammo and compete at 1000 yards.

And in 2020 the number of hunters has declined sharply, most new shooters are using their rifles to shoot at targets. Even those who still hunt are using the same rifles to shoot more than ever before during the off hunting season. I can't think of any cartridge that will do so much for so little cost and recoil.
 
Still not gonna give up my .243. I was struck by the ads in 1955 where they told how even at 500 yards it still had 500 ft.lb of energy.
Just joking. Nah, not.
I'll stick with my old stuff, blued M70 with walnut stock, Weaver K4 steel scope, and the old, outdated, useless 30-06. I have no practical use for any of these as I live in a state that mandates slugs for deer and we only have a bear every five or years or so. Fun to watch the newest shiny thing grow and grow. Why I remember the wonder 9, and the do it all 223.
What will "revolutionize" shooting next?
 
No marketing involved at all.

Now that's just silly. We have been bombarded with 6.5 CM PR and marketing for a decade. To suggest it hasn't been marketed is just silly.

The problem with the 6.5X55 which you refer to has to do with non standard dimensions and barrels in a 100+ year old cartridge and poor performance from factory loads. The 6.5X55 COULD match 6.5 CM, but only with custom built rifles shooting non standard handloads.

Other than the piss poor factory loads, which you rightly note, this is silly, again. Non-standard dimensions? Whatever are you talking about? The Swede can, and has been, chambered in standard actions since it was first offered in a commercial rifle. Non-standard barrels? What are these? The whole idea of the 6.5 CM was to make it shoot VLD bullets in a short action - presumably for weight savings, as the 1/2" difference in bolt throw is utterly immaterial. Then, it is chambered in heavy, long range rifles with 26" heavy barrels and monster scopes. So, the weight "savings" is utterly immaterial unless you are shooting a mountain rifle (the case for which is undermined by your references to declining hunting and increased target shooting). The 6.5 CM has no ballistic advantage over the Swede. Because science. It has the very real advantage of being very well marketed at the right time and filling the desires, whether organic or induced, of people with disposable income.

The only difference between the Swede and the 6.5CM is that someone found a way to make money by repackaging the old as new. I'm all in favor of the free market and happy to see the success around that effort. But it isn't anything new and it isn't anything special. It is a triumph of marketing and PR.
 
My perspective on (relatively) recent history in the shooting sports industry...

Hunting as a whole has lost popularity for the last few generations - nearing the point of being “unpopular.” So civilian firearms sales slumped among hunters for a while, as the population of hunters slumped. Less and less grandpas and fathers have been buying deer rifles for their sons and grandsons, such kids are growing up without a stable of firearms at home, and without a mentor above them. This effectively ended the era in which the average rifle sold was intended for hunting, but that didn’t mark the demise of the civilian firearms market.

Civilians have rekindled their love for firearms for hobby uses and defense.

Political climates, real or imagined, have pushed extreme sales growth for AR-15’s over the last few decades. Desired during the FAWB, then suddenly broadly available following. Especially so in the last decade, AR’s have flown off of shelves. Equally, we’ve seen a boom of handgun ownership, as more and more states passed concealed carry licensure laws, and even further as more and more states are passing “constitutional carry laws.” If you’ve been watching stats, these two factors have shifted tides - the average firearm sale in the past was made to a firearm owner, whereas in the modern era, the average sale is made to a first time buyer. But we’ve started to hit a relative saturation point again, and the challenge to return a customer is far smaller than the challenge of eliciting a new one.

*Of note - this trend towards increased handgun and AR ownership largely trailed behind the popularity of 3 Gun competition in the US, so that particular sporting “boom” in which 3 gun and pistol action shooting were the fastest growing shooting sports in the world was a leading edge factor, but had largely waned by the time the mass market was buying AR’s. An early influence, certainly, but not a driver for these purchases in recent years.

So all of these folks bought AR’s and handguns, and they’ve realized that blasting rounds at short range isn’t infinitely entertaining. But they enjoy shooting, and especially enjoy having a unique hobby or unique firearm many of their friends may find inspiring... So they look around for what else they can do with a firearm - maybe something outside of their 100 yard square range.

Many firearms and parts manufacturers pushed hard at the end of the AR-15 boom to “graduate” customers into AR-10’s, but most folks (surprisingly) realized the disadvantage of the heavier 10 platform in cost and weight, and sought some other option. If the point of going bigger is going longer, then going with a bolt gun made more sense. So we saw a bunch of new tactical bolt actions getting pushed to market.

Now enter the smoldering embers of popularity of long range shooting, waiting for years to finally catch fire. Military “sniping”is a relatively new affair, and has certainly garnered a certain mystique in pop culture in the last ~30yrs. Every war movie has its obligatory scene of sharpshooting, even entire film franchises have been built around the premise. Police dramas shine lights on sharpshooters, media coverage of sporting events highlight “snipers,” and it goes on and on. Multiple popular YouTube channels and social media profiles are focused on long range shooting, even airsoft soldier wannabe’s have their hero du jour “sniper” to follow online. Video games (and social media channels for their players) have entire genres of sniping opportunities, and in many cases, the “sniping” stages are the most fun and well designed of any of the gameplay - aka, received the most coding time to develop. Chris Kyle’s book and the subsequent film further bolstered the popularity of long range precision shooting.

In parallel, these political climates, domestic and international, fueled by an easy media platform, have pushed “prepping” out of the cult-culture shadows and into the light as a relatively acceptable societal norm. Folks here recognize the advantage of a longer range weapon, with light ammunition, low recoil (in case your 7 year old daughter has to lay down covering fire during a zombie incursion), high availability, and low cost.

Perfectly poised among these trends was the explosion of “tactical rifle” competition - now dubbed “Precision Rifle.” Long range competition from a bench with low round counts was never hugely popular, but any firearm owner can appreciate the practical nature of this long range action shooting hybridization. And flooding over social media, again, promoted a group think mentality looking for the RIGHT cartridge. Naturally, casual plinkers don’t want a barrel burning 6 creedmoor with limited ammunition availability.

So all of this hit together as the perfect storm, and the 6.5 Creedmoor found itself front and center in a market of consumers begging for it. It carries the reputation of “the European 30-06” which has been killing moose for over a hundred years, but with modern design features, less recoil than most popular American hunting cartridges, and broad market availability. So it found easy success by building upon foundations of greatness, standing on the shoulders of giants, and flooding itself into the market. What hunters among us remain have recognized the efficacy of the 243win and 7-08 for deer for a few generations already, and the 6.5 Creed steps in among them as a high performer with ease, without any masochistic, excessive recoil.

So the easier question to answer - in which shooting demograph is the 6.5 creed NOT viable? Based on this particular forum, the only answer is “aged luddites which disdain anything new”.
 
No marketing involved at all.

This is a reality most folks choose to ignore. Nobody ever received an email from “6.5 Creedmoor Corp” advertising the new round. Hornady dropped their announcement of the cartridge, a bunch of rifle manufacturers dropped their announcements of their particular models offered for it, and then everything else has passed around by social media and word of mouth.

I haven’t seen an ad for “6.5 Creedmoor” in years. Hornady doesn’t have to push it any longer. I found out about the 147 factory ammo at a rifle match, not via social media ads or other advertising by Hornady.

Frankly, companies have moved on from the 6.5 Creed. We saw announcements for the 6.5 PRC, and now the 6 GT coming to market. We saw the 300 PRC, and now the .277 Fury. But the 6.5 creed remains to hold a top spot in sales. So even though it is no longer actively marketed, and other cartridges ARE advertised, the 6.5 is holding market share by its own virtues - retaining popularity among shooters.
 
Forever? That's a long time.

Europeans have known the magic of 6.5mm bullets since smokeless powder was invented. It just took America 100+ years to get on board. 6.5 Creed is a well thought out, useful cartridge for many things. But not all things, as many will claim.
 
With nearly 70 years of hunting behind me and many centerfire rifles came and gone I’m down to just two. I can’t think of a situation that I would be involved in those 2 wouldn’t handle. If I was just starting out I’d look at the 6.5 CM very hard. But now I just yawn.
 
This is a reality most folks choose to ignore. Nobody ever received an email from “6.5 Creedmoor Corp” advertising the new round. Hornady dropped their announcement of the cartridge, a bunch of rifle manufacturers dropped their announcements of their particular models offered for it, and then everything else has passed around by social media and word of mouth.

I haven’t seen an ad for “6.5 Creedmoor” in years. Hornady doesn’t have to push it any longer. I found out about the 147 factory ammo at a rifle match, not via social media ads or other advertising by Hornady.

Do you imagine the hook and bullet rags and websites work for free? Would you call the vast amount of planted media - social and otherwise - "word of mouth"? It isn't. It's called "marketing". The suggestion that the 6.5 CM hasn't been advertised beggars belief. 1964 called and they want their version of advertising back. "But there was no little 6.5CM jingle, or a little animated cartridge mascot. The talking lizard never told me about the 6.5CM". So there was no marketing? "Look kids - it's Mr. Creedmoor, the fastest little bullet in the West. You want some speed, to draw a bead, and hit your target? Yes, indeed, it's Mr Creed".

The amount of PR/social media tribal marketing and commercial communication for the 6.5CM was remarkable. The suggestion that it was organic, ie. not paid for is either unbelievably naive or purposely misleading for some unfathomable reason.
 
I think the meteoric rise in the popularity of the caliber owes itself to the similar rise in the popularity of PRS type shooting which overlaps it's development. It was made to shoot NRA, F-class and 1000 yards, but fits the PRS role nicely as well. As noted above, an accurate rifle/ammo package can be purchased over the counter and relatively inexpensively. The other 6.5s out there take some special skills. Had the .260 or 6.5x284 been introduced by Hornady in 2008 with the same consideration for performance, I think they would have fared just as well.

The fact that it is a fine hunting cartridge, and bullets and powders have come of age to take full advantage of it's potential is a big bonus. I think the industry got behind it as it was simply a good idea.

As for the short vs. medium action (6.5Cr Vs 6.5 SKAN), most short action rifles in 'murica are built around the .308 Win parent. 6.5x55 is incopatable with this, requiring a longer action. Also to get full potential with the 6.5x55(6.5 SKAN), it must be loaded above pressure levels safe for the M96 pattern mauser which would have the lawyers licking their chops. The 6.5 CR, using modern engineering for modern components did away with these difficulties while equaling a level of performance already accepted as optimal for many purposes.
 
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Do you imagine the hook and bullet rags and websites work for free? Would you call the vast amount of planted media - social and otherwise - "word of mouth"? It isn't. It's called "marketing". The suggestion that the 6.5 CM hasn't been advertised beggars belief. 1964 called and they want their version of advertising back. "But there was no little 6.5CM jingle, or a little animated cartridge mascot. The talking lizard never told me about the 6.5CM". So there was no marketing? "Look kids - it's Mr. Creedmoor, the fastest little bullet in the West. You want some speed, to draw a bead, and hit your target? Yes, indeed, it's Mr Creed".

The amount of PR/social media tribal marketing and commercial communication for the 6.5CM was remarkable. The suggestion that it was organic, ie. not paid for is either unbelievably naive or purposely misleading for some unfathomable reason.

This is nothing but the silliest drivel of your own design. Bloggers haven’t been getting paid for marketing the 6.5 creedmoor for years. Hornady isn’t pushing it. Certainly, they may take in a new model, and they inevitably will test it in 6.5 as they had with 308 or 7RM in generations passed. But nobody is grabbing a 10 year old model with a 10 year launched cartridge and making any money on blog content - that ship has long passed.

Imagine some fictitious enemy if you like, but your unique concoction of nonsense above is exactly that.
 
This is nothing but the silliest drivel of your own design. Bloggers haven’t been getting paid for marketing the 6.5 creedmoor for years. Hornady isn’t pushing it. Certainly, they may take in a new model, and they inevitably will test it in 6.5 as they had with 308 or 7RM in generations passed. But nobody is grabbing a 10 year old model with a 10 year launched cartridge and making any money on blog content - that ship has long passed.

Imagine some fictitious enemy if you like, but your unique concoction of nonsense above is exactly that.

What’s wrong with you? You are clearly unfamiliar with modern marketing and seem butthurt that some rifle cartridge has been heavily promoted and isn’t in fact the greatest thing since sliced bread. Quite strange behavior.

“Bloggers haven’t been getting paid for marketing the 6.5CM.” Hilarious. Welcome to the 21st Century, Buttercup.
 
Hey don’t forget “
Without the 6.5 Creedmoor my main man here would be way outta place with nowhere to go! :rofl:
Jim
 

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@DocRock - who is paying them? Companies make money through advertising their products. The 6.5 creed aspect of a new rifle is not how Remington, Savage, Ruger, Seekins, Howa, Winchester, or whoever pays us bloggers for content are making money. The 6.5 creed is simply the popular round to be used. Remington and Winchester weren’t secretly sending sheckles to the Walnut growers association and profiteering on walnut stocked rifles for decades, but wood stocked rifles were popular, so every new model in the gun rags would have walnut stocks. For years, every new hunting rifle we saw would be featured in the magazines in .270win, 308win, or 7rm. Was Winchester secretly paying Remington to pay Craig Boddington to use a Rem 700 chambered in 270win in his articles? Or more likely, Remington was paying Craig to peddle their new 700 model, and .270win made sense for the chambering. Today, that would be a 6.5 creed.

There’s no profiteering to be manipulated by simply pushing 6.5 creed sales. The Creed is popular, so manufacturers will profit by offering rifles in these cartridges. Hornady isn’t kicking back Remington for advertising rifles chambered for their cartridge - there’s simply no mechanism for “marketing the 6.5 creedmoor” any longer. Hornady announced it, they offered to make it open market, and it flourished. The ball keeps rolling because customers want it.
 
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