How to convert your liberal friends (to win next election)

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Despite all this rhetoric about how "we" lost this election no serious attempt at gun control has come from congress or the executive branch.

I personally am not to worried.

It appears the Democrats did learn something from 1994.
The gun control gremlins have been plenty busy since 1994. Just because they have held off for the last 11 months only means they are political pros. As we have seen, they have much bigger policy fish to fry before they commit political suicide by resurrecting gun control. When Obama becomes a lame duck and has nothing to lose, watch out. It could happen if the Dems lose big in the midterms and the writing is on the wall for him in 2011/12. Or it could happen later in his second term if he is reelected.

Don't be naive and think the likes of Pres. Obama, Sens. Feinstein, Schumer and Rep Pelosi have suddenly gotten 2A religion and are all for RKBA. They are just biding their time until it is politically expedient.

BTW-I don't understand how self-professed liberals in this thread can ignore the 2A by saying they have other issues of equal importance they consider in the voting booth. Personally, 2A is my litmus test. I will always vote for the candidate who is stronger on 2A regardless of party affiliation. If both candidates are equal on that subject then I start to look at the other issues.
 
In order to win the next election, we have to do more than just preach to the choir. We have to convert our liberal friends.

OK, if you say so....although I think your liberal friends are going to vote for liberal politicians regardless of the 2nd Amendment; conversly stated, they will vote for liberal anti-gun politicians with little (if any) regard for the 2nd Amendment. Those liberal politicians are anti-gun. They will not be converted to anything other than "reasonable" and "common-sense" "gun safety" "regulations". Because you don't "need" semi-auto handguns, assault weapons, etc. for hunting.

Personally, I think that it is a tremendous waste of resources and an exercise in futility. Put the resources into convincing independents to vote for pro-gun politicians. Well, pro-gun politicians who will actually do something to stimulate the economy other than tax, spend, and borrow from the Chinese. Independents will vote from thier own pocketbooks first. JMHO. I'm not trying to make anyone angry.
 
The gun control gremlins have been plenty busy since 1994. Just because they have held off for the last 11 months only means they are political pros. As we have seen, they have much bigger policy fish to fry before they commit political suicide by resurrecting gun control. When Obama becomes a lame duck and has nothing to lose, watch out. It could happen if the Dems lose big in the midterms and the writing is on the wall for him in 2011/12. Or it could happen later in his second term if he is reelected

Don't be naive and think the likes of Pres. Obama, Sens. Feinstein, Schumer and Rep Pelosi have suddenly gotten 2A religion and are all for RKBA. They are just biding their time until it is politically expedient.

I am sure that they would like to restrict RKBA, but they all know they dont have the votes to do it. Pelosi recently killed a bill introduced by the anti's, she didnt even allow it to get to the floor of the house.

I remain vigilant, but to me just because the Democrats are in control doesnt mean our rights are any more secure, there are alot of anti Republcians too.

BTW-I don't understand how self-professed liberals in this thread can ignore the 2A by saying they have other issues of equal importance they consider in the voting booth. Personally, 2A is my litmus test. I will always vote for the candidate who is stronger on 2A regardless of party affiliation. If both candidates are equal on that subject then I start to look at the other issues. .

So if Hitler/Mao/Stalin made a baby and he was pro-gun, you would vote for him even if he shredded all other rights and went on a purge?

To me RKBA is just one issue among many that I weigh.
 
We need to redefine our tent as "RKBA Supporters" rather than DEMs v. GOP, red vs. blue, liberal vs. conservative.

That would work if we didn't have the majority of one political party consistently working against the 2A and the majority of another political party defending it.

Sorry, but I calls 'em as I sees 'em.
 
"I'm opposed to guns, but in this case, I think she should get one. Although most guns are used in crime and suicides, I think that in this situation, the benefits outweigh the risks."

Ask her politely where she got this information. If in fact "most guns are used in crimes and suicides" then the gun deaths in the USA would be in the millions each year... considering that there are almost 400 million privately owned guns out there.

Its funny how these ignorant anti's are so painfully misinformed. They focus on the few thousand times per year that guns are used to do bad things, and totally disregard the MILLIONS of times they are used to do good, and the even more MILLIONS of times they are not used at all (except for fun).

Ask her politely how many millions of disarmed people have to be victims of violent perps so that they can "save just one life".
 
Ask her politely where she got this information. If in fact "most guns are used in crimes and suicides" then the gun deaths in the USA would be in the millions each year... considering that there are almost 400 million privately owned guns out there.

Its funny how these ignorant anti's are so painfully misinformed. They focus on the few thousand times per year that guns are used to do bad things, and totally disregard the MILLIONS of times they are used to do good, and the even more MILLIONS of times they are not used at all (except for fun).

Ask her politely how many millions of disarmed people have to be victims of violent perps so that they can "save just one life".
You can't ask the last question without being patronizing. Being patronizing doesn't really help the cause as most people will react to how you are talking to them rather than what you are saying.

I would also like to say that I have had a lot more people come shoot with me after stating my point in an inclusive manner rather than an "us v the anti's" sort of diatribe. This is not directed at the poster I have quoted but rather a comment on the debate in general.

A lot of so called "anti's" see it as black and white as a lot of you do and this makes them feel as if being ok with guns will change their entire value system. This should not be the case in a country that prides itself on having free thought. They aren't all anti's, more like unacquainted with the truth about firearms.

This is why I can never see myself voting on a party line as I agree and disagree with them all on firearms, rights and other issues.
 
And I guess you do have to try and convince people that guns shouldn't be banned and not just give up, so I thought some more about it. I suppose I wouldn't try and convert someone or to make some kind of an argument. Instead, maybe inform someone how much fun recreational shooting is, and let them try shooting a .22LR or an air gun. Just about everyone has fun popping cans with those! :) Perhaps a change of perspective is better accomplished by having fun.
 
And I guess you do have to try and convince people that guns shouldn't be banned and not just give up, so I thought some more about it. I suppose I wouldn't try and convert someone or to make some kind of an argument. Instead, maybe inform someone how much fun recreational shooting is, and let them try shooting a .22LR or an air gun. Just about everyone has fun popping cans with those! :) Perhaps a change of perspective is better accomplished by having fun.
My Ruger 22/45 is basically my "outreach" program. If someone can't have fun with one of those, they just can't have fun.
 
Took my flaming liberal brother, and his inner-city "little brother" not only to the range during Thanksgiving, but had both of them try their hand a reloading! They had a great time.

The 16-year old thought the 22LR semi-auto pistol was a blast. He loved to load up 10 rounds and fire through them lickety-split. (So do I!)

The 52-year old thought the recoil from the 20ga shotgun was a bit much, but he LOVED the 9mm semi-auto pistol. And he was a pretty good shot with it also.

After having them get frustrated trying to hit a target at increasing distances with a handgun, we moved to the rifle range, set up a Savage 12FV on bipod and bag, with handloaded ammunition, and put the first shot through the bullseye of a 100-yard target. They were amazed.

I agree. With the women, work on getting them to see how it would benefit THEM or other women. With the men, get them some trigger time. By the end of the afternoon (I spent an hour on gun safety previous night, had them handle every weapon unloaded, practice clearing, practice carrying etc) they were completely at ease with shotgun, rifle, pistol and revolver.

Done.
 
May come as a shock to some here, but many leftist Democrats I know have taken advantage of the "Appleseed" program, and have greatly improved their skills.

I learned to shoot in that uniformed, paramilitary organization, the Cub Scouts, over 50 years ago,later got a marksmanship merit badge in Boy Scouts. I don't know if they even do that stuff anymore.

This came in very handy in the Army later in life.

mark
 
I'm less concerned with converting liberals, whom I think are in the minority anyway, than I am to getting the rest of the voters to wake up.
 
9 months for a CHL!!

NYC is easier than that - just have to be a friend of the mayors, a celeb, radio talk show host or a millionair - bingo - your license in a few days!!

me - a working class joe - i am screwed - but hey - my mayor knows what is best for me!!

My gun club is loaded with young women learning to shoot - guess they relize the police will not magically appear at their door when they need help!!
 
I've probably converted two dozen liberals to become gun owners over the years simply by taking them to the gun range. Works wonders. Those who would violate our rights don't care what our political outlook is; more than a few liberals understand that.

The liberal anti-gun thing hasn't been an accurate guide for quite a while anyway. It's more about regional differences, e.g. San Francisco vs. Butte. California's R governor is the one who just made an ammunition purchase registry; Montana's D governor is supporting a lawsuit to exempt Montana from having to follow federal gun laws. Do your research & keep the individual in mind when you go to the polls.
 
I got to say this.

Now their certainly is folks who are the very definition of the stereotypes as described by "Right Wing/ Conservative" or "Left Wing/ Liberal".

Those folks in a great many cases are the enemy of freedom as well as reason.

BUT

To simplify how you see other citizens of this grand nation as being such is a disservice to what the word American means.

Divide and conquer is an axiom employed by tyrants everywhere now and throughout history. Cool heads and common ground are where true strength in numbers comes from.

The one thing I think most of us can agree on is that our government no longer works for us, they work for the highest bidder.
 
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Okay, this is where you lose those of us on the left. When you start claiming that we're mentally diseased because we don't agree with you politically. When you start saying things that essentially boil down to "Lefties are vegetarians! You know who else was a vegetarian? HITLER, THAT'S WHO!". Screaming about the authoritarianism of one side while ignoring that of your own wins you no converts. How many of you know what the Mulford Act is? How many of you know that Nazi Germany didn't ban the possession of firearms for anyone but Jews and other "enemies of the state" and in fact relaxed the draconian firearms laws imposed on them by the League of Nations? I don't blame most people for believing that one really. It's probably a lot more comforting to believe in a completely disarmed populace, helpless against the machinations of the Third Reich and forced to stand by and do nothing while millions were slaughtered than it is to contemplate an armed populace standing by and doing nothing and complicit in the slaughter of millions of their countrymen.

That's an unpleasant thought, isn't it: the idea that the people of an entire nation, able to be reasonably well-armed under the laws of their government, might sit by and do nothing while that same government engages in mass murder. They weren't helpless. They weren't inhuman monsters. They were regular people who nevertheless turned a blind eye to the abuses and atrocities perpetrated by their own government because that government figured out how to sell it to them. This is not a new phenomenon. But it works. It worked in Hitler's Germany. It worked in Stalin's Russia. It worked in Mao's China. And don't delude yourself for a moment that it couldn't work here. What did it take? A minority of the population, singled out as the enemy within, as the cause of every ill, working against the perfection of a nation because of their inherent evil. That's it. You'll be hard pressed to find a nation, having descended into totalitarianism, that didn't end up there by following that path, by chasing the enemies authority gives them.

This is why, in any society, the right to bear arms is worthless without the full compliment of freedoms we're all born deserving. Without the other rights enumerated by the founders of this nation, the right to bear arms is nothing more than a super-tacticool rifle hanging on the wall in a house that's all ready been looted and picked clean. And that's why you lose people on the Left. You focus solely on the right to bear arms as inviolable while disparaging or ignoring the other rights due all of us. We see support for warrantless wiretaps, for torture, for police brutality, for all sorts of government abuses as long as it's directed against the right people.

I offer this as a Left-wing gun owner. Want us on your side, so we too can help convince our less-rational and fear-motivated political peers that gun ownership is not solely the province of racist, sexist, homophobic and reflexively violent thugs? Don't revel in acting like you are, even if you aren't, just because of some childish impulse to upset the people on the other side of the aisle. Ask yourself if putting a thumb in their eye over affirmative action or global warming or same-sex marriage is worth sacrificing your right to defend yourself, your family and those around you. If you're going to be ambassadors for firearms culture, act like it. You'd be surprised how many people you won't alienate by simply laying out the case for responsible firearms ownership and self-defense instead of railing about how Obama is the new Hitler.

Thanks for your time folks. We're all in this together, after all.
 
Posts missing? Leave the Hitler debate to PMs and don't hijack the thread. If you want to debate what Hitler and Nazis were or weren't, pick a different place to do it.
 
Okay, this is where you lose those of us on the left. When you start claiming that we're mentally diseased because we don't agree with you politically. When you start saying things that essentially boil down to "Lefties are vegetarians! You know who else was a vegetarian? HITLER, THAT'S WHO!". Screaming about the authoritarianism of one side while ignoring that of your own wins you no converts. How many of you know what the Mulford Act is? How many of you know that Nazi Germany didn't ban the possession of firearms for anyone but Jews and other "enemies of the state" and in fact relaxed the draconian firearms laws imposed on them by the League of Nations? I don't blame most people for believing that one really. It's probably a lot more comforting to believe in a completely disarmed populace, helpless against the machinations of the Third Reich and forced to stand by and do nothing while millions were slaughtered than it is to contemplate an armed populace standing by and doing nothing and complicit in the slaughter of millions of their countrymen.

That's an unpleasant thought, isn't it: the idea that the people of an entire nation, able to be reasonably well-armed under the laws of their government, might sit by and do nothing while that same government engages in mass murder. They weren't helpless. They weren't inhuman monsters. They were regular people who nevertheless turned a blind eye to the abuses and atrocities perpetrated by their own government because that government figured out how to sell it to them. This is not a new phenomenon. But it works. It worked in Hitler's Germany. It worked in Stalin's Russia. It worked in Mao's China. And don't delude yourself for a moment that it couldn't work here. What did it take? A minority of the population, singled out as the enemy within, as the cause of every ill, working against the perfection of a nation because of their inherent evil. That's it. You'll be hard pressed to find a nation, having descended into totalitarianism, that didn't end up there by following that path, by chasing the enemies authority gives them.

This is why, in any society, the right to bear arms is worthless without the full compliment of freedoms we're all born deserving. Without the other rights enumerated by the founders of this nation, the right to bear arms is nothing more than a super-tacticool rifle hanging on the wall in a house that's all ready been looted and picked clean. And that's why you lose people on the Left. You focus solely on the right to bear arms as inviolable while disparaging or ignoring the other rights due all of us. We see support for warrantless wiretaps, for torture, for police brutality, for all sorts of government abuses as long as it's directed against the right people.

I offer this as a Left-wing gun owner. Want us on your side, so we too can help convince our less-rational and fear-motivated political peers that gun ownership is not solely the province of racist, sexist, homophobic and reflexively violent thugs? Don't revel in acting like you are, even if you aren't, just because of some childish impulse to upset the people on the other side of the aisle. Ask yourself if putting a thumb in their eye over affirmative action or global warming or same-sex marriage is worth sacrificing your right to defend yourself, your family and those around you. If you're going to be ambassadors for firearms culture, act like it. You'd be surprised how many people you won't alienate by simply laying out the case for responsible firearms ownership and self-defense instead of railing about how Obama is the new Hitler.

Thanks for your time folks. We're all in this together, after all.
Seconded by a "Center" dwelling gun owner.
 
I'm less concerned with converting liberals, whom I think are in the minority anyway, than I am to getting the rest of the voters to wake up.

Actually in 2004 the democratic party had 72 million registered voters and the republican party only had 55 million.

And I am sure that number of Democrats has gone up proportionely since 2004.

However republicans are more politcally active and vote much more frequently.

If the Democrats actually voted as frequently as the republicans, the Democrats would blow away the republicans assuming they voted down the party line.
 
Actually in 2004 the democratic party had 72 million registered voters and the republican party only had 55 million.

And I am sure that number of Democrats has gone up proportionely since 2004.

I see Democrat and liberal/leftist as different things, just as I see republican and conservative/moderate/libertarian/rightist as different things.
I think some mistakenly see recent democratic victories as a collective victory for the left or liberalism, but I suppose time will tell.
 
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