How would rebarreling my garand affect it's worth?

[scythefwd]

I am considering having a Kreiger barrel made for my 1945 IH garand. It is not correct. It is a rack grade at best. It might have been reparked in the past, stock has been replaced, trigger is SA, barrel is correct type, but maybe not year for an IH receiver. It would be standard profile, but match tolerances. I don't expect it to mess with the value too much since the rifle is already a parts mix master but I would like some confirmation (or contrary points of view) to that fact.

 

[shootr]

I did the same thing only with a CMP Criterion barrel, a collection of parts and a CMP stock set. I was a trend-setter - now, the CMP does the same thing and sells them for $995.

Doesn't sound like you're planning to alter an historically significant artifact and regardless, it's your rifle.

 

[Orlando]

If barrel is correct I might not change it, if correct it will detract fromvalue .Guess it all depends what you want, a shooter or a collector. Something is wrong though in your post as noIHC's were manufactured in 1945, they are all Post War

 

[Jim Watson]

You could keep the GI barrel to reinstall when somebody offered you a lot of money for the rig in as-was configuration.

 

[scythefwd]

Orlando - Ill have to go back and check. I know it's an IH, so I must be wrong about the year. I looked it up a while ago, but my long term memory is fuzzy. I don't collect guns. It's fine with me if other people do but I see a gun that isn't shot as a waste of gun.

Jim, I'm not selling it. it was my grandfathers (not a bring back, just his).

 

[wideym]

If it were a Service grade of better I would say keep it, but rebarreling a rack grade shouldn't detract from it's value. If anything it should increase in value and accuracy. Like Jim Watson wrote, just keep the old barrel if you plan on reselling it at a later date.

 

[Orlando]

Check and see what is marked on the barrel. Why do you think it needs a rebarrel? Is accuracy suffering? Lack of accuracy may not be from the barrel, have you measured muzzle wear? Stick a M2 Ball rd in the muzzle and see how much of the brass is showing between the rd case and muzzle. Its not accurate way to measure MW but will give a idea

"If" the barrel is correct to the receiver and the barrel isnt pitted, just worn it is still worth more to a collecotr in original configuration than with a commercial barrel

 

[Jim Watson]

I'm not selling it. it was my grandfathers

Then I don't understand the hangup on dollar value. If it is not shooting satisfactorily, fix it so it will and you can enjoy Grandpa's rifle.

 

[scythefwd]

Orlando - the boyds (or so I was told) presentation stock with missing placard will do a way with some of that value.

It does have a LMR barrel if I remember right. Now I have to go through and check numbers to see how off it is. IH used LMR barrels, so that may be right. The SA trigger group probably isn't. The stock IS NOT original, or anywhere near. The one that shipped on it was severely damaged on a possible double charge before I inherited it. The gun checks out and is sound though, just stock damage. I'm pretty sure the "lead 86" engraved with a hand held rotary engraver probably dropped it down to rack grade if it was service grade. I don't have a throat or muzzle gauge, so I don't know how worn it is. I just assumed that a match barrel would be more accurate than the USGI barrel.

 

[scythefwd]

Jim, I also keep track of the value of my cars even though I intend to drive them till the wheels fall off. I like to know the effects of my actions, even if they aren't really applicable to me at that time. Anybody can get laid off or fired. If that happens, I don't want to be scrambling around trying to find values of the things I can get rid of to eat.

 

[Orlando]

The electric pencil LEAD engraving on the receiver leg means it was rebuilt at Letterkenny Arsenal . Are you sure it says 86 ? I would think it would have been rebuilt in the 1960's
Again, why are you thinking of rebarreling?? Sounds to me that you have a nice rebuild Garand
Those late rebulds are usually in good condition and are collectable in themselves
LMR barels were used on IHC's

 

[jdowney]

I don't think it would have a negative effect, as you say the rifle is mixed in any case. Might just improve it a bit too....

 

[scythefwd]

Orlando - it does 5 inch groups from a rest at 100y. That is why I am considering a rebarrel. It might be 68, the gun isn't in front of me and I haven't done a detailed stripping of it in 6 months.

 

[rattletrap1970]

You might just want to try a re-crown before rebarreling. That often improves accuracy dramatically.

 

[Orlando]

5 inch groups isnt terribly out of line for a Garand, althoug they can be able to shoot better than that they arent match rifles. As I said before there are other things that affect acuracy.
As I suggested stick a M2Ball rd in muzzle and report back what you find.


Stock fit can be a huge factor in accurcy
Everytime you remove the action from the stock it can take up to 40 rds for action to settle back into the stock and accurcy to return

What ammo are you using?
Is the crown of the muzzle digned up on the inside?
If shooting off a rest do not set the front handguard on the rest as it is open on the bottom and if OpRod rubs on rest it will affect accuracy
Dont take offense but it can also be shooter error, how much have you shot the Garand?

Let me know what you find out, I suspect barrel is fine

 

[ralfus]

There are many, many factors affecting accuracy in a Garand. Also check for loose gas cylinder on barrel (this means a loose front sight that can easily open up groups a few inches and is an easy fix.) Loose trigger guard on stock, loose stock fit. The LMR barrel is most likely original to the IHC and the LEAD engraving would NOT downgrade the rifle from service to rack. That is mainly barrel condition and then overall condition of rifle.

 

[Orlando]

I forgot the gas cylinder ralfus, also check the rear sight aperture, does it move side to side or is it stable?
As I said in a earlier post there are many things that can effect accuracy but I would check these first.
If they all check out OK we can go into it more indepth

Persoanlly I would love to have IHC LEAD Garand in my stable

 

[shootr]

What Orlando, rattle and ralfus said. There are a lot of things that can affect accuracy in these. LMR barrels are known for being accurate and a recrown might make a noticeable improvement.

Also, if you know someone with a gauge to check the muzzle and throat, you might be well within service grade tolerances. Hopefully, you'll find it's something real simple.

 

[RCArms.com]

Definitely more info needed. IH (International Harvester) did not make Garands until the early 50's and their early production had HEAVY Springfield Armory support with refgard to Receivers and Barrels.

If your IHC Garand is an early example with an original SA barrel, rebarrelling it will have an adverse effect on value, but not dramatically considering the balance of the parts being "incorrect".

Feel free to drop me a PM or eMail as I am a long-time collector of US Martial Arms and would have no trouble helping you determine the age and desirability of your receiver and barrel combination.

Don

 

[scythefwd]

Don - not a SA barrel.

Sights do not move, gas tube is tight. Crown looks good, bore is bright and shiny. Don't know anyone that has a muzzle and throat gauge.

Shooting LC match ammo.

 

[CZguy]

Try doing a tilt test, to see if anything is binding on wood.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlIoxbtdPXY

 

[Orlando]

For the third time, if you dont have a gauge sick a M2 Ball rd in the muzzle to check for wear. This will give you a rough idea of wear.

 

[scythefwd]

How exactly will that give you and idea other than that the lands are making contact with the round? You still don't know whether it is a 2 or a 5 unless you do that a lot using gauges and can recognize it. There is a big difference between a 2 and a 5 to the gun, but not nearly as much to my eyes.

 

[CZguy]

Then buy a gauge. They're a handy thing to have. (and substantially cheaper than a new barrel)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Muzzle-Gauge-30-Caliber-M1-Garand-M1-Carbine-etc-/320556791970?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa2ac78a2

 

[ralfus]

"How exactly will that give you and idea other than that the lands are making contact with the round? You still don't know whether it is a 2 or a 5 unless you do that a lot using gauges and can recognize it. There is a big difference between a 2 and a 5 to the gun, but not nearly as much to my eyes."

The slight taper of the the bullet's ogive can be used quite easily as a taper gauge for the muzzle. It gives you a good idea of how much muzzle wear the rifle has received from cleaning rod damage. You must use a loaded gov't M2 ball round for consistency though. Muzzles measured .2995-.302 bore diameter when new. A "service" grade exceptable reading was under .303. Gauge readings are abbreviated as 1-2-3 etc. A tight muzzle may show 1/4".

A "2" would show about 3/16" of the bullet and a "5" would be to the case mouth.

The difference is obvious in the pic below.

http://www.memorableplaces.com/m1garand/cmpprogram6.html

A tight muzzle may still have nicks or possibly an uneven spot on one side but a badly worn muzzle will be very obvious. A muzzle can still be shortened 1/4" and recrowned without effecting gas port pressure too.