How would y'all handle this one...

Status
Not open for further replies.
L

LawDog

Moderator Emeritus cum Laude
Joined
Dec 20, 2002
Messages
2,101
You are visiting whatever large city you frequent when the fast-food burrito you had for lunch might have had a few more beaks than the Health Department regulations call for.

As a result, you wind up contemplating your navel in a mall (or chain supermarket) restroom.

Abruptly, your ruminations are interrupted by a teenage malcontent of whichever gender won't draw attention sliding under the stall door, grabbing your ankles and attempting to drag you off the throne, thereby causing you to strike your head on the porcelain on the way out of the stall, rendering you semi-, or un-, conscious and in no position to resist as the teenagers' compadres empty your pockets and/or lift your purse and exit, stage left.*

Unfortunately for this critter, he (or she) has failed to notice the slickness of the floor and has consequently slid into the stall with you.

So. Here you are. Caught with your trousers down - with the attendant CCW difficulties, looking down at one highly surprised teenage social malcontent with his (her) paws grasping your ankles and hearing two of his (her) buddies milling about outside the stall.

Solve the problem -- now.

LawDog

*Based on actual M.O. of local street gang.
 
Whenever I'm using a public toilet for #2, I use the handicap stall. My weapon is placed on the top of the TP dispenser or in the pocket of my jacket, which is hanging from the door. If the above scenario occured I would attempt to do as much damage to the individual in front of me (knee meets chin, box the ears, et cetera), unceremoniously hike up trow and obtain my weapon.

To tell you the truth, I don't think I'd stand much of a chance if surprised in this manner, especially if my head hit the commode on the way down.
 
You need to control that kid in the stall with you. Beat his head on the floor, kick him, knee drop, brown him out, whatever you got. Get on commode and brace door for his buddies. Scream loudly while pulling up your pants. Grab concealed pistol if you got it and peak over stall. If they are coming at you, contemplate escalation of force.
 
Since it is not yet a deadly force encounter and it is a situation where you can respond immediately: use physical force. Palm their face, kick them in the chest, grab their ear, elbow them, etc. Then pull pants up, button quickly. At this point it is time to evaluate ASAP what the rest of the BGs are doing. It is highly unlikely that the punks are going to all rush the stall to assault you. What is far more likely is that they will run away after seeing their maimed friend. But if they don't, I would probably draw and put my gun in retention position. If I were not in a position to carry, I would draw my knife. If I don't even have a knife, I would get into a fighting stance. At this point it is important to protect your face in case they kick the door open. From here on out it is hard to say exactly what would happen. If they are standing sufficiently away from the stall, you may want to exit the stall since that is a disadvantaged place to be. If they are not sufficiently away from the stall, figure out how to get them away. It could be simple as screaming at them or you could stab at one of their feet with your blade. Hard to say...

After action I would call 911 as well as El Tejon.
 
Punk has your ankles in his grasp and has "caught you with your pants down" at least around your knees if not your ankles and has slid into the stall with you instead of yanking you off the throne and banging your head. I don't see opportunity for a kick or stomp so a drop knee from seated to the zyphoid process/sternum would seem natural. Follow with a hammer fist or phoenix eye to the temple/mastoid and drop the other knee to his throat. Avoid the teeth at all costs. That should get his grip loosened enough to regain your feet and up your drawers. That should allow you to access other tools (No, not that one:uhoh: ) to deal with the problem. You could then assume that the BG will be dragged out by his buds or they will abandon him. Exit the stall as if the whole gang were still out there and haul ??? out of the toilet facilities.
 
On the rare occasions that I defecate in public restrooms, I hold my pistol. This keeps the weight of it from dragging my pants down into the little puddle of urine that inevitably is on the floor in front of the commode. So, it's simple. I shoot him.
 
I was rudely introduced to this method of relieving the reliever of whatever in 79; Germany. Pay n public terlit.

Arm came in from the side and startled the whey out of me. Hand grabbed ankle and I grabbed wrist...jerked upward very hard and got my far side hand into the mix whilst his arm was on the way up. Probably either broke or otherwise mangled his arm against the divider edge. Lots of non German, non English complaint and sounds of fleeing.

I stayed put till my partner came to see why I was taking so long.
Didn't want to wander out into the arms of any irate buddys.

Worked once. No bets on second try and if front attack could be a bugger to combat unless really on ones toes.

Sam
 
I use a SmartCarry holster. When "sitting," the whole thing gets hiked up to about the rib line. Gun is nice and available.

Also, in your scenario, my feet are close to his head. And legs are generally stronger than his arms. Good stompin' possibilities!

One thing to note: As Joel Rosenberg points out in his book, Everything You Need to Know About (Legally) Carrying a Handgun in Minnesota:

One obvious way...is to hang the holster...on the hook of the stall.

It's obvious, but it's a bad idea, for several reasons. ...Thieves have been known to reach over the top of restroom stalls to steal purses and other bags....
Click to expand...

He recommends, for belt holsters, arranging your trousers so as to hide the gun from nearlby stalls, keeping it in a bag between your feet, or holding the gun in your lap.

Matt
 
Wow is that a weird attack! I think that because of how the attacker is at a big positional disadvantage (despite your pants being down) and taking another risk without scoping out the stall interior first -- that you are not holding something sharp, heavy, or otherwise dangerous.

Like other posters, if the arms are not completely inside my stall, I would probably bang them against the wall bottom. If his head was available a general pummeling would ensue, escalating into eye gouging and stomping if I could.

Now you're giving me the willies and I might just have to sit there next time with a knife in my hand while I'm "busy." Hmmm...
 
'Dawg, upon reflection, something appropriate for the setting described, I'm wondering if this sort of attack actually occurs or if it doesn't fit into the urban legend category. Reaching across from the side certainly makes sense (C. R. Sam has experienced this, but I wonder if the shapely appearance of his ankles didn't result in a different form of covetousness than the motive under consideration), but it's a long reach from the door of many stalls to the ankles of a preoccupied person. Considering the ease with which you can kick a stall door open I was moved to ask.
 
Suddenly things are a bit clearer.
When fems form a restroom team, they aren't doing so for social reasons. They're setting up a defensive perimeter and standing watch for each other.

Anyone consider using the SWS maneuver?
Stomp. (buy time)
Wipe. (accumulate bio-weaponry - use of one-time applicator preferred, but whatever works.)
Smear. (apply)

After their resulting outburst, you can reply with utter accuracy: "Precisely."
Makes 'em easier to spot (or smell) afterwards too.

Once initial threat dealt with, obtain cell-phone (if available) and call for assistance while assuming defensive posture with whatever weapons I have available.
 
Well, the BG already is reaching down, right? well if you're fast enough, and can keep your balance, grab his arms and pull them under the door, hopefully smashing his head on the door. Pull your pants up, draw, and hold the gun on him till the cops arrive.
 
I can't imagine anyone quick enough to pull me off balance that way. What's he use for leverage? What you describe is an indefensible and very awkward position on his part. Assault me by prostrating yourself at my feet??? I keep an eye on what's going on outside the door through the cracks. I can't be caught offguard and sliding under my door would only earn somebody a quick nap.

Compadres to his rescue? If their focus is dragging him back out from under the door, they can have him, but they'd better be ignoring me bigtime and hi-tailing it ASAP or I'll plead disparity of force. Too bad, so sad, I am no play toy for evil predators and I don't perceive those stall walls as much of a barrier to penetration.

I have no idea what kind of neighborhoods I am stopping in along my travels. I stop every 100 miles for fuel and I ride through the night. This often does a number on my stomach (I drink the water) so I am very familiar with public toilets. I've seen a lot of strangeness at rest stops and gas stations but I've never been confronted. Big guys like me dressed in black leather don't appear to be on the bad guy's menu.

Still, these stops are always condition orange for me. Odds are I will be fondling my gun while sitting on the privy regardless of company in attendance. I'd go into high alert if a gang of guys entered the room. No worries until I have to leave the restroom as long as they know how to mind their own business.
 
I just can't see how somebody could get down to prone position in front of your stall and slide under without you noticing unless you are in complete condition white(out). When I'm in a stall, I pay attention to what is going on outside of it. I immediately notice when somebody enters the bathroom, and when they walk in front of my stall, I get very attentive.

I say that as soon as you see somebody stop in front of your stall, get prepared for action(because we here know about this particular M.O.) and if two people enter stalls on either side at the same time, something bad is definately going on.

First, get control of your weapon! Then, when hands reach under, stomp them, hard! If head pokes under, it's time for whack a creep with shoe to head.

It seems to me that the little punk is putting himself in a very vulnerable position by trapping himself under the door so he can't stand up, but you can. He only has his arms to fight with, but you have the much stronger leg and thigh muscles, plus you are in a position above him. Stand, Kick and Stomp!

Oh yea, never let you pants go down around your ankles if nothing else, at least for the reason Golgo-13 mentioned. Keep them at least up to around your knees.
 
If available, use pen, stylus or unopened folder as fistload device and smash down on small bones of BGs hands or head. Opened knife could be drawn across backs of hand, forehead, inside arm, neck, throat, etc. For me, a neck knife would most likely be available as well. firearm would not likely be available for me in this instance, at best, one would be deep in pocket holster.

If no expedient weapon available, heel-fist strikes to BG's temple and jaw-hinge. Surprised BG would likely have head turned sideways and upwards in a silly look at you -perfect opening for your strikes. Land a couple extra strikes just in case.

Jump up, possibly stomp the downed BG one last time for insurance, pull up pants as best as possible, then brace one leg against the door while putting back against the wall -this should buy you some time to properly button/zip pants while preventing extra BGs from kicking-in the stall door.
Arm yourself properly, call 911 if cellphone handy and prepare for second assault.
 
My folding knife always stays on my pant waist band at 2 o'clock. In this situation the'position' would make it easily accessible. I would cut anything that grabbed my leg from underneath the stall door. I don't know if this is use of excessive force, but considering how vulnerable I would be (literally caught with my pants down) I wouldn't hesitate. If I wasn't paranoid enough already this is one to really think about. But my SA is always up to yellow-to-orange when I'm doing my business, you can usually see someone close from underneath or though the gap in the door.
 
A good point made about women going together. How many have accompanied a youngster, even if just outside the door, we do our ladyfriends, GFs and Spouses...I do anyway. Maybe we guys need to ,when can, think to at least keep tabs on one another. Forget macho, in this case we are against a gang.

I think Sam's method would work, then again one would have to adapt to one's particular event. I know I have used one of the handicap stalls, for a bit of distance. My CCW is handy, so is knife, being as we aren't to that point yet...Sam's method, worked once, probably would again.
 
For those that would drop a knee on them. This could work, but for the men this leaves a very sensitive area open to their hands to grab. If you KNEW you could hit them hard on the first knee drop then do it, but I wouldn't trust my package to my ability to drop the knee accurately. A glancing blow wouldn't work, it would have to be a direct hit with a lot of power to incapacitate him.

Jeff
 
Without a firearm....

MA restricts my class A to target & hunting, so I have to do this without a gun.

This was (and is) a VERY real threat for people like me that spend alot of time on the
road and in airports. Usually though the threat was from people trying to steal a laptop
or carry bag -esp from the airport. My resolutions were:

First, I avoid public hoppers whenver possible.

Second carry hidden weapons. I have steel toed sneakers and boots I wear in all but
the hottest weather. Also I have 2 small knives (one is a 'swiss army card' the other is
a 'Gerber' money clip). I keep them both scalpel sharp with woodworking ceramic
honing stones. Once the pants go down, the blade comes out....:D

Third, Situational Awareness. You all know the drill.

In the post 9/11 world, carrying sharp objects during travel is pretty hard and I don't
want to risk going to jail over a small blade. So I improvise with dual-use weapons of minor
destruction (sharp pencils, etc). I still keep the steel toes!

Happy trails
-p
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

S
  • Locked
Another How would y'all handle this one...
Replies
16
Views
804
Dr.Rob
Dr.Rob
Back
Top