Another How would y'all handle this one...

[sm]

Apologies to Lawdog for Subject title.

Ok this used to occur around here quite often, usually with an increase around the holidays. Reminded of this the other day by Lawdog's thread.

You are in a crowded parking lot, maybe your vehicle is in employee lot , doesn't matter. Time of day or night is not really important. Maybe you and others walked to each others vehicles...yes they or you are only a few steps away from respective vehicles.

As you insert your key into door lock, your ankles are grabbed by an assailant hiding under your car. Pulled sharply you are leveraged against your vehicle and down you go. Your head either hits the pavement or the vehicle parked next to yours. Was that your hip you feel break? Writhing in pain, not sure what has happened assailant #2 whom has lain in wait goes for your wallet/purse...or worse your skirt is being pushed up as you are pinned to the pavement.

How do you handle?

 

[Horsesense]

Kick, roll, claw, scream! No time fore pain. Fight your way back out to the open!

 

[444]

I have electronic door locks. I would realize that something was amiss because my cute little Rottweiler who goes pretty much everywhere I go would be on the offensive in the truck. Since I would know something was up and I didn't see obvious reason for it, I would probably sqat down to see if a cat was under the truck. When I saw what was up I would unleash the hound. He would lay waste to them and I would drive away.

At least that is similar to what happened the last time someone broke into my truck. I wasn't there but the open door and the massive amount of blood pretty much told the story. Not exactly the same other than the outcome.

 

[CWL]

If all that has already happened, I'd say it's already over, you are completely at their mercy. Concussion? Broken hip? Not much left to do, probably won't have a clear enough head to reach for SD weapons, call for help or much else.

Best thing is to not let that happen. Situational awareness is key. I look around, inside and under my car as I approach. Most modern cars have remotely activated door locks which will also light up the interior so you can see inside. Where is BG #2 hiding? I'd notice him I think.

Do you have any examples of this being a real MO anywhere?

I personally doubt that anyone would hide under a car and ambush you this way. How long do they wait? How do they know when you will be back? What if you are bigger than he/she and stomp his fingers into pulp, or kick his head in? Won't others notice some guy hiding under a car and call police/security? This is not a position to quickly escape from.
Is it possible to get enough leverage & motion to topple you from underneath the car? Anyone strong enough to do this from such a bad angle would probably just likely run up from behind and crack you over the head, or go for the straight strongarm robbery/carjacking. Even easier, why not just break your window and steal the stereo & CDs with no risk?

 

[sm]

Thread was to make us think.
Shopping season is upon you folks.

Parking decks, Mall shopping centers, employee parking lots. Seems to take spurts, some punks hear about, and think they discovered a new MO, much like kids have discovered the Beatles, again, today.

Couple of things came out. Sometimes a victim is spotted, elderly are real good choices, cute gal for assault, the old man counting his money before leaving his vehicle, or followed from ATM...you get the Idea. Lay in wait until victim comes back.

During the hoidays the police give the heads up about not leaving gifts in plain site, they also give advice to look into vehicle and check back seat before getting in...Most people do not look at vehicle until they are ready to unlock door.

MO, yep its real. In AR ,( central) malls, state offices parking lots hopital parking decks. NW same deal, malls,mfg parking lots. Dallas Renuion Arena, Leows Anatole...etc.

Mom's best friend, known for 60 yrs, assaulted this way, no one heard her screams, no one offered to help. Someone found her between 2 cars, purse stolen . Reciept shows ~ 45 min from time her purchase made and time she was found. She parked out of the way, didn't want her car getting dinged. Died of complications 1 week later. Yeah this stuff really happens. Be a bit uncouth to scan the funeral bulletin, had too much respect for her.

Think like a thief.

Lawdog, Jeff White ...what say you professionals?

 

[Penforhire]

Wow, another spooky situation!

Well, my car's only 3" off the ground and only a two-seater so I'm not afraid of anything that could fit under it or out of sight in it but I know the attack could still come from a 4x4 parked next to me. Good one to remind us of awareness.

Keyless remotes reduce the amount of focus required to enter your car. Many (including mine) also turn on lights inside and outside the car. Another tip might be to cover the panic button on the remote (yet another nice feature) as you approach.

 

[El Tejon]

Draw and perform the indicated response.

 

[sm]

In the case of my mom, whom naturally was shaken up, and does not carry concealed, this is what I suggested:

For one when time came for her to get a handicap parking , I insisted she NOT get the license plate,just advertises she is vulnerable. Someone sees her at bank,out and about, it is not advertised as much. Instead she uses a hang tag which is allowed here.

When possible allow the carry out guy to accompany to vehicle if shopping alone. I do stress that she and her friends run errands together, car pool, shop have lunch, she has a right to not be a prisoner of age, health etc.

Use the darn handicap tag , forget the pride getting hurt due to heath, park up front where less chance of being a victim.

Look under the car before you get there, scan the lot, walk assertive, heads up, keys in hand...and mom you have no reason to be out at night ( other than church -ok) park in a lighted area.

Use the dang OC on key ring. Heavens if my mom could carry a switch...I know what she can do with one of those...

Still gonna get her a cane...she can just raise cain all she wants.

Hard-headed...must be where I get it...

 

[DMK]

A person can't fit under my car (lowered ) and if they try it on my Jeep, it's high enough that they won't be very concealed.

 

[bogie]

I'm 6'2", and of this morning I weighed 286. Things would become decidedly rodeo.

Thanks, Lawdog...

 

[Trisha]

It's a scenario I teach, as an example of situational awareness. I was first told about it by a Denver PD who was then working Urban Street Crimes Unit.

Add, "Taser/stun gun to the exposed ankle."

The only way to defeat it is to avoid getting into that situation: In a clear area, pretend to fumble and drop your keys. Be at least 10 feet from the rear of your vehicle. You should visualize being perpendicular to the axis of the perp beneath your vehicle, minimizing your risk when you retrieve your (preferrably decoy) keys and perform a visual sweep of not only your own vehicle but those adjacent to you. If the parking area/structure doesn't have adequate lighting, sweep with pocket flashlight.

I teach that exact ankle grab (practiced on an 8" thick futon), to train one to roll at the shoulders and tuck arms/hands, bringing shoulder rig into reach while minimizing injury from the fall. The worst-case scenario involves the addition of the stun gun - you're toast.

Also - don't anticipate your attacker to be an adult. Juvenile gang-bangers slip easily under nearly any vehicle, and with high-clearance SUV's, they tuck almost into the wheel-well.

One minimally-expensive deterrant is to install lighting beneath your vehicle and link it into your remote-entry system (a simple job at any car alarm shop). Hit the remote and you get to see under your car at your discretion (but that does NOT preclude this attack from the vehicle adjacent you!).

Plan ahead. Train. Live.

Trisha

 

[Jim March]

I weigh almost 300lbs.

They try THAT trick, they'd best be pretty dang strong. Otherwise I'm gonna go "what the hell?" and then start stompin' .

 

[sm]

Umm Jim, anyone attempting to hide under your motorcycle...probably needs stomping anyway.

Trisha , I'm glad you teach this, appreciate your sharing.

Juveniles are the ones most employing this MO. They target victims, Jim for instance would not fit their criteria. Now elderly folks, think of your parents, smaller adult males, and woman...think of your sons and daughters. Not everyone in your family has a CCW if allowed in your area. Perhaps a college campus where firearms not allowed and that 21 yr old daughter has a night class. The wife whom is a teacher and doesn't /can't leave a firearm in her vehicle while on school property, but needs to run a errand on the way home.

Me. I'm 6' 170 # , I have in training/ practice lost my footing, in replication of this very MO. I felt more vulnerable after my appendectomy some yrs back. Really felt vulnerable after double knee surgery. Even after getting healed up and back to driving, I couldn't run, kick back,or stomp for a bit, Even though I'm a male with a CCW.

One fellow we had do this is in a wheelchair,now he has to wait for the automatic door to open and lower ramp on his van, quite a bit of time for someone to knock him over, he has zero use of legs. Yep, he carries two CCWs. He relies on his situational awareness first though. Real easy to pin him with his chair against the side of his van.

 

[LawDog]

There's kind of a moral behind this one:

Detective over in street crimes tells me that in the good old days this kind of attack was only seen once in our area and it was used by a stalker against the lady who was the object of his fixation.

Wasn't a bad tactical plan on his part, but Murphy tossed in a couple of oil-field roughnecks getting out of well-truck four parking places over who heard her scream and saw her get pulled down.

Apparently they spent about fifteen minutes yanking the critter out from under the car, kicking him back under the car, then repeating the process.

But I digress. This was uncommon until a little while ago when either a movie, or a TV show, or a book about urban legends came out, and this kind of attack was prominently mentioned in this movie/book/TV show.

Now, we get about four of these attacks a year - usually over at the mall, or one of the Wal-Marts - and they're aimed at strangers either for kicks, or to car-jack them.

*sigh* As if critters didn't have enough imagination to begin with, Hollywood has to help them out... :banghead:

Anyhoo, the best defense against this sort of thing is good old Condition Yellow.

Look at the ground under your vehicle as you approach it. While you may not be able to see all the way under the car, some part of the critter is going to be in your field of view.

If suspicious, don't be afraid to crouch down at a distance a give the underside a quick hairy eyeball.

LawDog

 

[toro]

When my son was a baby, I was parked at a Wal-mart. My husband went into the store and I waited outside with the baby. In those days I was not paying much attention and when a car pulled so close to my side of the vehicle I was very afraid.

The reason I was afraid is because he was so close I could not open the door. My son was in a car seat in the back. I was then thinking what can I do? He got out of his car and I was busy locking all car doors just as he headed for the driver's side of the vehicle. He had an object in his hand and I believe he would have broken the window if my husband had not appeared and yelled out WHAT ARE YOU DOING? He then ran back to his vehicle and took off. After that I always went inside with my husband.

Of course since then I have learned to shoot and I am not afraid of people doing these things. Just goes to show, you have to AWARE at all times.


Mrs. Toro


________________________________________
1 Peter 5:8,9
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour; whom resist steadfast in the faith. Knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

 

[Moparmike]

I am very situationally aware, bordering on paranoid usually. VERY observant, and ears like my beagle.

My car is too low for that anyway unless they are really really skinny, and nine years old to boot.

Get remote start. I have an alarm w/ silent arm/disarm, or siren. It also has remote start. It would be really entertaining to watch someone jump for their life when under a starting car.

Besides, I am 6'even and close to 300lbs() and they would have quite the time doing that.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Hmmm... so getting some of those running board mounted neon lights has tactical value?

I never would have guessed.

Helps you find the car keys when you drop 'em too.

Rob