One of my neighbors shot by burglars last week

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Dirty Bob

Dirty Bob

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One of my neighbors responded to a phone ping at 4am on Friday night. He discovered his car (parked in front of one of his neighbors' houses for unknown reason) was being burgled by two "yoots." He went out front and yelled at them. They left, but as they were leaving, one turned and fired, hitting the vehicle owner. He was taken to the hospital with a non-life threatening gunshot wound.

https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2023/08/11/man-shot-after-interrupting-car-burglary-outside-neighbors-home-police-say/

Look, I know that auto burglary and auto theft seem to be spiraling upward, but I would not have gone out, even though the police will likely not show up in time to prevent the burglars' escape, if they come at all. My thoughts:

Your car is not a holster, not a bank account, not a laptop case. No valuables in your parked car. I keep maybe $20-25 in cash hidden away, some sunglasses (out of sight), and some CDs (I'm old school) in my car.

Park inside a garage, if at all possible. These yoots are going around, trying car doors. It mostly seems a "low hanging fruit" type of crime. It seems a lot of these are happening in apartment complexes around here. Makes sense: lots of outdoor cars in a small area.

Lock your vehicle doors and remove/hide any valuables, or not-so-valuables (see item above).

It isn't worth it to confront auto burglars, nor auto thieves. Hospital bills--or legal bills--will likely exceed the cost of what you stood to lose. Best of all is to park inside the garage--if available, even if it means getting rid of some old junk to make room for your vehicle...

If I open the door into the garage and find burglars have broken in and are right there, all bets are off. I'm afraid for my life at that point.

If they try to kick in the door from the garage into the house, or any other door into the house, invoke Rule 556. Your choice of rule may vary.

Conclusion
I wish my neighbor hadn't tried to confront the two burglars. I just don't see much chance of the confrontation ending well. Another person a few miles away followed the car of some auto burglars in his truck. They reportedly mag-dumped a pistol into his truck. One round reportedly went through the windshield, hitting no one.

Any thoughts? I'm not a coward, just trying to be realistic about risks and costs.

Respectfully,
Dirty Bob
 
Atavar said:
Pretty close when you know they will not arrive in time.
Click to expand...
It’s 2023. The world we live in isn’t what we’d like it to be. What is inside your car is worth a life? Yours or the thief’s? Our society puts as high a value on the life of the thief as it places on yours. We aren’t going to discuss if that is right. The only thing that matters in this forum is the reality of society placing an equal value on the life of the thief.

So you go out and confront the thief and get shot for your trouble. Even if you survive, gunshot wounds are serious. In real life they are serious medical problems that will change your lifestyle, maybe for the rest of your life. Is the change in your cup holder worth all of the medical bills, the pain, the loss of income while you recover?

Scenario two: You confront the thief, beat him to the draw and kill him. Real life isn’t like a western movie. Your neighbor’s ring camera isn’t going to say; “It was a fair fight the car burglar drew first.” You’re going to be investigated, even in a castle doctrine or stand your ground case, you will want to hire an attorney who specializes in self defense cases to advise you throughout the process even if the shooting is ruled justified. I don’t know what kind of retainer you’re going to have to pay up front these days but it’s probably going to be a few thousand dollars.

Is the change in your cup holder worth that?

We don’t have to like that society and the legal system is tthe way it is. We just have to live with it.
 
It's well past time to restore the common law re property theft. Remove criminal and civil liability from deadly force in defense of home and chattel. Until that happens though, no deadly force to protect property.
 
Whether you choose to confront someone on your property stealing from you - is entirely up to you (at least that's my take on it). Some advise extreme caution others advise the opposite.. I won't comment on either side of that proposition - but there is something to be said for the tactics involved if you do attempt to interfere...

Most armed citizens are not intending things to get out of hand - but the other side of the equation may not share your standards at all... If you do choose to intervene - standing out in the open where you're a very easy target would not be my first choice at all... I'll allow others to complete this critique -but I can say with some certainty that in my world we trained our young officers to protect themselves at all times - by using sound tactics when approaching or involved in a possible armed situation. That specifically involved using all available cover on the approach and giving yourself the best position possible while placing any potential opponent in the worst possible position if things go south... Something to consider..

In my early years on the street we were poorly trained (understatement) and most of us gave little thought to exactly how to minimize the risks we faced - while still doing the job.. About eight or nine years later we finally got smart and started changing how we acted in bad situations to make it much more likely that our officers would survive a shooting incident. I greatly approve of the armed citizen movement (in my era it did not exist by and large here in Florida...) but I worry a bit about the emphasis on ordinary citizens going armed - but lacking the tactics that might be so important in a real life threatening confrontation...
 
Link in OP doesn’t work for me.

There is nothing in my vehicle worth getting shot (either one of us) but if you are in one of them when I am at home, you have already broken and entered a structure you shouldn’t be in, just to get to one of them.
 
If looking for the (brief) story in the media, try Sugar Pine San Antonio shooting

The problem I see is that the world has changed. In the old days, in the small town where I grew up, the thieves would have beaten feet out of there the moment a porch light came on, or the someone yelled at them, etc. Carrying a pistol while committing a petty burglary would have raised the penalties they'd suffer if caught by the police, so they'd simply take off running if confronted. It makes sense, from a risk/reward point of view. I remember that the ones arrested for car burglaries were usually teenagers. This was also before so many broken homes, so the thieves probably faced heavy punishments at home,

Now, with fewer police on the street, longer response times, etc., it seems that at least some car burglars are armed. I don't think my neighbor had that possibility in mind when he went outside.

Neither did another local person who followed some car burglars in his truck. He received a bullet through the windshield. It didn't hit him, but I'm pretty sure it surprised him. He was lucky.

Jeff White is 100% right. We may not like things the way they are, but it's the world we're living in.

I've spoken with some nearby neighbors about this situation. Some of them go for early morning walks, especially in summer, and I didn't want them surprising a burglar. Marc "Animal" MacYoung wrote extensively about awareness and avoidance back in the 1990s, but it makes even more sense now.

I'm not getting into a physical (or ballistic) confrontation with somebody over something in my car. Even if I "win," and by some miracle don't have criminal or civil penalties for the incident, it would be something I'd have to carry with me for the rest of my life. It's not worth it.

Respectfully,
Dirty Bob
 
Going outside to tell a car burglar to leave is extremely foolish.

Going outside when criminal activity is take place out there is a terribly risky thing to do.

This morning before dawn, men entered a car in a driveway to burgle it in University City, mO. The resident opened his door and was fired upon by men in a passing car.

If there is criminal activity going on out doors, one wants to remain indoors and out of sight.
 
Good points in this: https://ccwsafe.com/news/in-self-defense-podcast-117-tom-givens-on-home-defense-part-2/

Talks about going outside.

Years ago, in San Antonio, a car was getting broken into - the owner took his hunting bow and went outside. He must have thought he was Green Arrow. Well, he was shot.

BTW, get a loud an obnoxious car alarm. Also, press your key fob alarm. For TX, BTW, the reason for a garage is keep a Wrath of God hailstorm from destroying your car. Been there.
 
""you will want to hire an attorney who specializes in self-defense cases to advise you throughout the process even if the shooting is ruled justified. I don’t know what kind of retainer you’re going to have to pay up front these days but it’s probably going to be a few thousand dollars.""

For those who this is a concern, here's a link to one of many companies that offer legal self-defense expenses:

USCCA

uscca.deltadefense.com uscca.deltadefense.com

""No valuables in your parked car.""
""just keep valuables out of your vehicle and always lock it.""
""Is that really so difficult?""
How do you take your cat. converter off your car and inside??

Yes, just put your key fob remote outside your front door and activate the panic button.
There's no risk doing that...
jmo,
.
 
Tilos said:
For those who this is a concern, here's a link to one of many companies that offer legal self-defense expenses:
Click to expand...
Good idea, but that does not eliminate the risks of an undesirable aftermath.
Tilos said:
Yes, just put your key fob remote outside your front door and activate the panic button.
There's no risk doing that...
Click to expand...
Oh yes there is--a person at the door is a target.
 
Dirty Bob said:
One of my neighbors responded to a phone ping at 4am on Friday night. He discovered his car (parked in front of one of his neighbors' houses for unknown reason) was being burgled by two "yoots." He went out front and yelled at them. They left, but as they were leaving, one turned and fired, hitting the vehicle owner. He was taken to the hospital with a non-life threatening gunshot wound.

https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2023/08/11/man-shot-after-interrupting-car-burglary-outside-neighbors-home-police-say/

Look, I know that auto burglary and auto theft seem to be spiraling upward, but I would not have gone out, even though the police will likely not show up in time to prevent the burglars' escape, if they come at all. My thoughts:

Your car is not a holster, not a bank account, not a laptop case. No valuables in your parked car. I keep maybe $20-25 in cash hidden away, some sunglasses (out of sight), and some CDs (I'm old school) in my car.

Park inside a garage, if at all possible. These yoots are going around, trying car doors. It mostly seems a "low hanging fruit" type of crime. It seems a lot of these are happening in apartment complexes around here. Makes sense: lots of outdoor cars in a small area.

Lock your vehicle doors and remove/hide any valuables, or not-so-valuables (see item above).

It isn't worth it to confront auto burglars, nor auto thieves. Hospital bills--or legal bills--will likely exceed the cost of what you stood to lose. Best of all is to park inside the garage--if available, even if it means getting rid of some old junk to make room for your vehicle...

If I open the door into the garage and find burglars have broken in and are right there, all bets are off. I'm afraid for my life at that point.

If they try to kick in the door from the garage into the house, or any other door into the house, invoke Rule 556. Your choice of rule may vary.

Conclusion
I wish my neighbor hadn't tried to confront the two burglars. I just don't see much chance of the confrontation ending well. Another person a few miles away followed the car of some auto burglars in his truck. They reportedly mag-dumped a pistol into his truck. One round reportedly went through the windshield, hitting no one.

Any thoughts? I'm not a coward, just trying to be realistic about risks and costs.

Respectfully,
Dirty Bob
Click to expand...

I can honestly see ANYONE responding with anger,indignity,and testosterone !!.

I can not say that is a good idea as that was how & why your neighbor got shot.

But I make allowances as I was once young too.
 
Atavar said:
This is exactly why we need to increase the Penalties for possessing a deadly weapon during the commission of a crime. Mandatory consecutive 10 or 20 years without possibility of parole in addition to the sentence for the crime.
Click to expand...
That discussion is not within our scope.
 
4v50 Gary said:
It's well past time to restore the common law re property theft. Remove criminal and civil liability from deadly force in defense of home and chattel. Until that happens though, no deadly force to protect property.
Click to expand...
This is silly.
Property crimes aren't new.
Killing someone for a property crime is immoral all over the world.
I hope you reconsider you statements.
Your statements are ill considered evidence.
 
We don't know if it's property crime in the moment. Only in retrospect can we know what the crime actually occurred. What if it was an abduction, using your vehicle to abduct, rape and kill a young woman aftert a bank robbery? How would you feel then if you did nothing? As a former LEO I would call 911 and use the tactics I was trained for to quietly and tactfully approach the vehicle to asses the situation, with my gun drawn

Going out on the porch unarmed and yelling at perps is a bad idea. The world has changed. They will shoot at you for reason or no reason at all.
 
The whole idea that taking active action by a civilian to prevent a criminal from stealing or destroying your property is wrong has resulted in the increase of crime we see these days. The potential of being injured by a property owner while committing a crime is in itself a crime deterrent. There is no doubt that losing life or limb for stealing anything is not worth it but that responsibility was once and should still be on the criminal's shoulders not their victims. Another point is that most people are OK with LEO shooting criminals so why is a criminal's life worth less if shot by LEO instead of by a civilian protecting property?

This whole idea that the life of a criminal is too precious to take for any reason except the most extreme & specific circumstances is what prosecutors in cities where crime is out of control are saying. We see the result every day where establishments are being ransacked by gangs of criminals while the store owner stands and watches helplessly. That is not right.

I think crime would be greatly reduced if we return to the days when it was up to the criminal to decide if stealing items worth a few bucks was worth risking their life for.
 
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