One of my neighbors shot by burglars last week

[jmorris]

This whole idea that the life of a criminal is too precious to take for any reason except the most extreme & specific circumstances is what prosecutors in cities where crime is out of control are saying.

But he was in Texas and we threw out the duty to retreat in 1995.

The concepts You are talking about isn’t whats on the books here.

Sec. 9.31. SELF-DEFENSE - Texas Penal Code

(a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor against the other’s use or attempted use of unlawful force. The actor’s belief that the...

txpenalcode.com

 

[Kleanbore]

But he was in Texas and we threw out the duty to retreat in 1995.

The duty to retreat has nothing to do with this. /not having a duty to retreat does not grant one the authority to advance.

The Texas law cited refers to an occupied vehicle.

 

[Kleanbore]

The whole idea that taking active action by a civilian to prevent a criminal from stealing or destroying your property is wrong has resulted in the increase of crime we see these days.

That discussion is not within our scope--it has nothing to do with strategy, tactics, or training.

This whole idea that the life of a criminal is too precious to take for any reason except the most extreme & specific circumstances is what prosecutors in cities where crime is out of control are saying.

It is also what the learned judges said in the days of Blackstone.

 

[wayneinFL]

The whole idea that taking active action by a civilian to prevent a criminal from stealing or destroying your property is wrong has resulted in the increase of crime we see these days. The potential of being injured by a property owner while committing a crime is in itself a crime deterrent. There is no doubt that losing life or limb for stealing anything is not worth it but that responsibility was once and should still be on the criminal's shoulders not their victims. Another point is that most people are OK with LEO shooting criminals so why is a criminal's life worth less if shot by LEO instead of by a civilian protecting property?

This whole idea that the life of a criminal is too precious to take for any reason except the most extreme & specific circumstances is what prosecutors in cities where crime is out of control are saying. We see the result every day where establishments are being ransacked by gangs of criminals while the store owner stands and watches helplessly. That is not right.

I think crime would be greatly reduced if we return to the days when it was up to the criminal to decide if stealing items worth a few bucks was worth risking their life for.

You might be surprised how little of a deterrent that is for some people. I knew kids who broke into cars in the 80s. They didn't do it for a car stereo or for the money they could get for a car stereo. The fear of getting caught or getting shot at was an adrenaline rush.

 

[CoalTrain49]

The duty to retreat has nothing to do with this. /not having a duty to retreat does not grant one the authority to advance.

The Texas law cited refers to an occupied vehicle.

Same in WA.

Outside of your vehicle is no bueno. Inside the vehicle with you in it, well, the stakes go up.

 

[shafter]

I think at some point society needs to have a serious discussion about what to do about this growing problem. Law enforcement is shrinking rapidly which emboldens criminals and even when they are able to apprehend someone the courts seem unable or unwilling to convict. I don't know what the right solution is but I think it's not realistic to expect that most people will allow others to walk off with their property knowing well that they probably won't ever see it again.

 

[bdickens]

But he was in Texas and we threw out the duty to retreat in 1995.

The concepts You are talking about isn’t whats on the books here.

View attachment 1167154

Sec. 9.31. SELF-DEFENSE - Texas Penal Code

(a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor against the other’s use or attempted use of unlawful force. The actor’s belief that the...

txpenalcode.com

You need to read further :

 

[Kleanbore]

Here's the scoop on the University City shooting that I mentioned.

https://www.kmov.com/2023/08/15/university-city-man-shot-after-someone-tried-break-into-his-car/

 

[TomJ]

There is not a single solution that fits everyone's situation. We moved from an area where cars were broken into too often, and it's something I gave a lot of thought to. I have 2 sons, both of which need me to be around for a while longer. I will not risk them losing me over someone stealing my car, especially since my insurance company will reimburse me for most of the cost of a new one. If my life or the life of a family member or friend is in jeopardy I'll of course intervene, but not to protect material goods which I can easily replace. Others may be in a different situation and decide to intervene. Not knowing their situation I'll hold of on any judgments.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

To confront or not to confront...that, like so many other choices we have to make, is going to be situational. You can't just make a blanket statement that you would/should always do one or the other.

Make your risk assessment based on your understanding of the totality of circumstances at that time and make your choice.

The choice, mind you, does not always mean "direct confrontation". There are many ways to interrupt such activities and direct confrontation is only one of them.

What other choices might be available?

- Turn on exterior lights.
- Raise the alarm loudly and verbally from a position of safety.
- Set off an alarm if available. This may even be the security alarm on a vehicle, either the one affected or another one in the area.
- Sic your dog on them if that's an option.
- Throw something at them from a position of safety.

I'm sure we could expand on that list of options if we think about it. Just don't include President Biden's legally ignorant recommendation of firing a shotgun blast into the air.

 

[Choctaw]

Pretty close when you know they will not arrive in time.

I've been in law enforcement my entire adult life and I'm not going to kill or be killed over property. I doubt many respondents to this thread have actually been in a full-on deadly force situation but it is a horrendous experience and will continue to be so for years to come.

 

[JTHunter]

This is exactly why we need to increase the Penalties for possessing a deadly weapon during the commission of a crime. Mandatory consecutive 10 or 20 years without possibility of parole in addition to the sentence for the crime.

The "authorities" do not want to deal with more prisoners.
The taxpayers do not want to pay for more prisons (or the costs to keep them up).
Without those two things changing, nothing else will.

 

[Jeff White]

I think we've said everything that can be said without delving into an off topic discussion of the current political situation.