Hp38 and bullseye temperature sensitivity

Big-bore-bob

Member
Joined
May 31, 2023
Messages
201
Location
Undisclosed location: Rocky Mountains Montana
Hi all, I loaded a butt load of 45 acp rounds some with bullseye and some with hp38. 230gr zero fmj at 1.255, win lpp. My velocities with the bullseye 5.0gr avg 850. Hp38 5.4gr velocities avg 837. I chrono'd the rounds today, temp was 37 degrees F. Will these rounds chrono higher when summer temps reach 85-90? Anyone think I might run into pressure issues? Thanks!
 
Thanks 9mmepiphany. I'm going to buy a new chronograph soon to verify the one I'm using currently, it's a caldwell cheapo. I'll come down a couple tenths before temps reach summer level. I have a couple thousand rounds to burn up at my current charge weights. Weird that a bullet change and changing to a winchester lpp would increase my velocities 50fps across the board compared to my data with cci 300 and rem 2.5 primers. Have any idea to why this is happening? I figured velocities would increase as temps increased but I certainly wasn't expecting this high of velocities from my current charge weights compared to manual data at this temperature. The cases don't seems to be ejecting farther than normal (4-6ft) and I'm getting a bit of soot on one side of the cases, so I don't think the pressure is even high enough to fully seal the case to the chamber.
 
I don't load 230 much above 800 fps and really here we don't consider 85 to 90 degrees to be hot, just don't leave your ammo baking in the sun. That being said, just don't go above published loading data and you will be fine.
Lafitte
 
Yes, 231 chronographs a little bit faster at higher temperatures.

A little bit.

Unless you are running at ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM pressures, the hot weather should be of no concern.

If you shoot pistol at such distance, and with such precision, that you can actually document elevation impact difference between 40 degrees and 80 degrees, you’re already the best shooter in the thread.

I’d be more concerned about LOW PRESSURES (and cold sticky lubricant) with “target” loads not making ENOUGH PRESSURE to cycle the old 1911.

Always take a couple boxes of “HARDBALL” with you to the range. You never know when those light loads might send you home because Ol’ Betsy just ain’t having it that day. Or you were just a little TOO LIGHT on the powder drum for that bag of bullets.
 
I'd say temperature can make enough difference to bump a load overpressured.
There are many reasons to avoid pushing limits, this is just one of many of them.

Anyone who uses the book maximum of Blue Dot in 10mm knows EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

O.p. However, your load sound reasonable and should be just fine from the North pole to the Sahara.
 
Hp38 ... temp was 37 degrees F.

Will these rounds chrono higher when summer temps reach 85-90?
Yes. W231/HP-38 is more temperature sensitive than other powders like Titegroup. And there are even "reverse temperature sensitive" powders like WST/Promo/WSF - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...s-and-discussions.778197/page-7#post-10117881

Look at the difference in velocities between 56F and 79F from my 9mm PCC testing - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...n-9mm-40s-w-45acp.799231/page-4#post-10338994
  • 9mm 115 gr RMR HM RN 4.8 gr W231/HP-38 @ 1.130": 1275-1263-1253-1290-1248 fps (56 F - JR carbine)
  • 9mm 115 gr RMR HM RN 4.8 gr W231/HP-38 @ 1.130": 1303-1289-1298-1311-1323 fps (79 F - JR carbine)

230gr zero fmj at 1.255 ... Hp38 5.4gr velocities avg 837

Anyone think I might run into pressure issues?
Probably not if using FMJ RN at longer 1.255" OAL which is essentially loading at start charge. (Hodgdon load data uses shorter OAL with FP bullet):

I'm going to buy a new chronograph soon to verify the one I'm using currently, it's a caldwell cheapo.
I am also using the "Caldwell cheapo" chrono and use CCI SV and 10/22 as reference test for the chrono (It's been consistent for several years as long as I use fresh 9V battery and shoot closer to sensors on top of chrono 10-15 feet away from muzzle/expanding gas which can confuse the sensors ... If using remote cable and Caldwell app, consider using steel deflector plate protection).

Weird that a bullet change and changing to a winchester lpp would increase my velocities 50fps across the board compared to my data with cci 300 and rem 2.5 primers. Have any idea to why this is happening?
Yes, bullet and primer change could affect pressure. And I am assuming you are using same brass? (If you are using mixed range brass, you are "tolerance stacking" another variable to your chrono testing). While most 9mm FMJ bullets are sized at .355", I found Zero 9mm FMJ to be sized larger at .356". (You could measure the bullet and see if it is larger) And I thought Winchester LP primers were for both Standard and Magnum loads. (ETA: Just checked and new packaging still says for "Standard or Magnum pistol loads")

BTW, have you checked neck tension/bullet setback? That's another variable that will affect chamber pressure/velocity.

Another factor to consider is actual powder charge temperature and not just ambient temperature. Like how "finished OAL" may not matter if you experience significant bullet setback when bullet nose bumps the feed ramp to affect "chambered OAL", ambient temperature may not matter if rounds are left out in direct sun to get warmed up or chambered long enough inside hot barrel to "cook" and raise powder charge temperature (Both will affect measured velocities and could display suddenly different numbers).

For chrono testing, I try to maintain the temperature of loaded rounds consistent (Keeping them out of sunlight inside cardboard boxe/insulated ice chest on really hot/cold days) and not allow chambered rounds to "cook" inside the barrel (Cold vs hot rifle barrel variable alone can affect group size/scatter).
 
Last edited:
BTW, have you checked neck tension/bullet setback? That's another variable that will affect chamber pressure/velocity.
I did indeed check for setback, I push loaded rounds tip first against my bench randomly throughout loading with quite a bit of force and check the coal before and after. I'll measure some of those bullets when I get off work today. I also chrono'd several batches of brass all loaded identically the same day and the results were the same across all of them. I tested new starline, 4x fired starline and a mixed brass batch. I appreciate the list of things to check for.
 
check for setback, I push loaded rounds tip first against my bench ... with quite a bit of force and check the coal before and after.
I used to push on bullet nose against the bench top to check bullet setback but found this "static" force did not replicate the "dynamic" force exerted when recoil spring slams the slide/bullet nose on the feed ramp.

While bullet nose push on the bench top produces no bullet setback, feeding the same round from the magazine could produce bullet setback when chambered. (Of course, most of us do not extract the round to measure OAL to determine if round experienced bullet setback when we are shooting at the range. ;) )

So if you are reloading for consistency and/or concerned about pressure, ensuring no bullet setback will contribute to producing greater accuracy.
 
Back
Top