Hp38 barrel fouling 45 acp

[Big-bore-bob]

Hello all,
I'm having issues with fouling in my 45 acp barrels using hp38, I have a hk usp 45, and a sig sauer 1911. My load is 5.5gr hp38, cci 300 primers, rmr 230gr fmj bullet, new starline brass, coal 1.260, my average fps is 824. I have some sort of fouling in the first 1/3 of the barrel, takes a hell of a scrubbing to get it all out. Sorry I don't have a picture. This is very annoying, is this typical for for this powder? I'm a new reloader but have never had to scrub a barrel this much with factory ammo. Takes hundreds of passes with a bronze brush to remove fouling from the lands of the rifling. Cfe pistol is dirty for me at 6.5 gr using the same specs as my hp38 load, but scrubs out of the barrel much easier. Anyone have this issue? Is this sort of fouling an issue?

 

[Walkalong]

Weird,, but it isn't the powder at that charge with that jacketed bullet weight and OAL.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Hello all,
I'm having issues with fouling in my 45 acp barrels using hp38, I have a hk usp 45, and an sig sauer 1911. My load is 5.5gr hp38, cci 300 primers, rmr 230gr fmj bullet, new starline brass, coal 1.260, my average fps is 824. I have some sort of fouling in the first 1/3 of the barrel, takes a hell of a scrubbing to get it all out. Sorry I don't have a picture. This is very annoying, is this typical for for this powder? I'm a new reloader but have never had to scrub a barrel this much with factory ammo. Takes hundreds of passes with a bronze brush to remove fouling from the lands of the rifling. Cfe pistol is dirty for me at 6.5 gr using the same specs as my hp38 load, but scrubs out of the barrel much easier. Anyone have this issue? Is this sort of fouling an issue?

This is going to sound like a strange question but, are you tumbling or in any way polishing your loaded ammo?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Weird,, but it isn't the powder at that charge with that jacketed bullet weight and OAL.

I agree, that is almost the identical load I use in the 45 Auto and I don't get any fouling whatsoever.

 

[243winxb]

From website

Usually they have a brass colored jacket, but we have received some with a copper jacket.

Edit to make clearer. The alloy is different between cartridge brass 70/30 copper & zinc.
Bullet jacket/Gilding metal is 95% copper & 5% zinc.
Pistol bullets can be made using fired cartridge brass.

Zinc acts as a lube. Hard ro remove.

My guess.

A member here, Longdayjake, sells the rmr bullets i think? Message him.

 

[Big-bore-bob]

Thanks for the replies, I'm not tumbling the finished cartridges. The bullet is brass colored. I could try a different bullet but I have a little under 1000 of these rounds loaded and I have to shoot em up. They shoot great, i like this powder, economical, very accurate. But the fouling seems contrary to other users experiences with this powder.

 

[red rick]

I would say it’s the bullet and not the powder causing it .

 

[Slamfire]

I shot more than a thousand of those RMR 230 FMJ's. I can say I get some throat fouling, can't say it is more than my military 230 FMJ's. My RIA jacket fouled horribly, when new its barrel interior had a frosted look. Now it is a mirror finish and it jacket fouls less, 99% percent of the shots have been RMR 230 FMJ's. I am having very slight jacket fouling in my Tisas, Charles Daly, pistols with RMR bullets. I have been shooting AA#5, Bullseye Pistol Powder, and Unique. Don't notice any of those jacket foul more or less. I cannot say I get more fouling with RMR bullets as it has been a while since I shot military FMJ's.

RMR claims that some of those bullets are "copper" jacketed, and other are brass. Gilding metal is 95% copper and 5% zinc. It is a type of brass. So I don't know what the heck they are claiming. Unless the bullets they are selling are colored differently, and they are classifying them according to color.

Here is what I recommend. Put a drop of oil on your cartridges just as you load them in the magazine. I put the drop on the junction of bullet and case. Half the oil will be blown up the tube, and the other half will be squeezed back into the action. The oil up the barrel reduces bullet to barrel friction. When diligently oiling my 200 SWC Xtreme plated bullets, and my 200 LSWC bullets, in my Les Baer Wadcutter, the tube is clean at the end of a match. I can run a patch down the tube, and not see any lead or jacket fouling. Carry paper towels to wipe off your pistol as the other half of the oil goes into the action, and eventually comes out on the rails. Lubes the rails very well, in fact, lubes everything very well. Your magazines will be oily, in and out. It is messy, but, everything will be well oiled, and the powder residue is easily wiped out.

There are people who seem to be allergic to cleaning their guns, this is not for them.

If there is jacket fouling, when you get home, use JB Bore paste. Saturate a patch in a strong copper cleaner (Sweets, Butch's) and coat one side with JB. Roll that patch around one of those worn out bore brushes and push through the barrel, starting at the chamber side. About ten to twenty strokes, with adjustments to get the patch fit tight in the bore, will remove the jacket fouling.

 

[mdi]

Fouling? Copper/brass? Lead? Carbon? Can't say I've had any fouling using RMR FMJ 230s over Bullseye and W231 in my 3, 45 ACP guns...

 

[CQB45ACP]

This AM shot 96 45acp rounds of 5.0 gr HP38 under 230gr Extreme plated RN. 1.260”

Two govt model 1911s, an Alchemy & Les Baer.

No fouling but what’s it look like anyway?

Yes, I know this is about RMR

 

[Bcwitt]

I had a USP 45. It fouled horribly. Was a great shooter when clean, but 100rd later, groups opened up a lot.

 

[mjsdwash]

I use HP38 with similar results. I shoot 4 different 9mm's and all foul severely.
Interestingly it runs extremely clean in low velocity rifle loads.

 

[Bcwitt]

It might have something to do w surface finish on the rifleing.

 

[Big-bore-bob]

I'll try to get a picture of the fouling after this weekends range trip... I got a tub of jb bore paste to try out. When clean the usp bore has a mirror finish, the sig 1911 has a rougher looking bore but fouls the same, the jacket material fouling comment makes the most sense to me. Thanks for the replies everyone. I'll update this weekend.

 

[243winxb]

The bullets base does have exposed lead. The powders burn tempertaure may be high enough for a split second to vaporize lead? Another wild guess.

How is bullet diameter?

If copper fouling, try a copper solvent?

 

[unwashed]

My experience is that HP38 is a dirty powder and realized the difference when switching to CFE pistol. Unless they changed the formula for HP38.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

My experience is that HP38 is a dirty powder and realized the difference when switching to CFE pistol. Unless they changed the formula for HP38.

Where you using low charge weights? Like most powders they clean up when the pressure rises.

I use fairly like loads but with 148gr WC cast bullets. Any soot is due to the lube, not the powder. Since I don't know if you were using Cast bullets or not I can't guess. With a 158gr LSWC bullets I charge 4.0gr W231/HP-38, not dirty at all but for the lube.

When loading a 158gr FMJ bullet I charge 4.3gr W231, not dirty at all.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Just cleaned one of pistols I shot Monday.

Confirmed what I said earlier—with plated bullets & 5.0gr HP38 there was no leading nor was powder smokey when fired nor especially dirty afterwards.

Of course we’ve agreed the powder wouldn’t cause leading anyway.

 

[unwashed]

Where you using low charge weights? Like most powders they clean up when the pressure rises.

I use fairly like loads but with 148gr WC cast bullets. Any soot is due to the lube, not the powder. Since I don't know if you were using Cast bullets or not I can't guess. With a 158gr LSWC bullets I charge 4.0gr W231/HP-38, not dirty at all but for the lube.

When loading a 158gr FMJ bullet I charge 4.3gr W231, not dirty at all.

I guess I should of went further with my reply, I used HP38 in the late 80's, early 90's, 148gr wc and 158gr swc, no cast, at the charge recommend at the time iirc. I slacked off my reloading to about early to mid 2000's. I remember having so much cleaning to do with HP38 opposed to other powders. So when I resume my reloading I went to cfe pistol and it was a much cleaner experience. As I stated but not sure, they may of changed the formula to burn cleaner. Maybe some of the older folks here can correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[CQB45ACP]

I guess I should of went further with my reply, I used HP38 in the late 80's, early 90's, 148gr wc and 158gr swc, no cast, at the charge recommend at the time iirc. I slacked off my reloading to about early to mid 2000's. I remember having so much cleaning to do with HP38 opposed to other powders. So when I resume my reloading I went to cfe pistol and it was a much cleaner experience. As I stated but not sure, they may of changed the formula to burn cleaner. Maybe some of the older folks here can correct me if I'm wrong.

I find it very smokey in light 45acp loads (4.5gr for example) but didn’t really pay attention to residue—all are dirty in my book. I use 5.0 now even though my is hands don’t like it.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I guess I should of went further with my reply, I used HP38 in the late 80's, early 90's, 148gr wc and 158gr swc, no cast, at the charge recommend at the time iirc. I slacked off my reloading to about early to mid 2000's. I remember having so much cleaning to do with HP38 opposed to other powders. So when I resume my reloading I went to cfe pistol and it was a much cleaner experience. As I stated but not sure, they may of changed the formula to burn cleaner. Maybe some of the older folks here can correct me if I'm wrong.

Are you saying you were loading WC and SWC bullets but not cast? Were they swagged of something else?
The lubes used on bullets back in the 80s were different than today for the most part.

I'm at a loss as to what's going on. A picture or 3 might help if you can.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Are you saying you were loading WC and SWC bullets but not cast? Were they swagged of something else?
The lubes used on bullets back in the 80s were different than today for the most part.

I'm at a loss as to what's going on. A picture or 3 might help if you can.

OP is signed off for a week or two so we’ll solve it but he won’t know

editops, wrong thread, sorry

 

[unwashed]

Are you saying you were loading WC and SWC bullets but not cast? Were they swagged of something else?
The lubes used on bullets back in the 80s were different than today for the most part.

I'm at a loss as to what's going on. A picture or 3 might help if you can.

Hmm, you are testing my memory . I still have some bullets in the original box but unfortunately are in boxes due to a move and I haven't unpacked yet. They are lead and according to my records made by a company called "Legend" if that means anything. Putting the thinking cap on, they could possibly be cast/swagged from the company. I since stop using lead and the little I reload are all copper jacketed or all copper. This could be a project for tomorrow to dig up that box, just to be accurate and picture.

Edit: Didn't have to dig to far.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Hmm, you are testing my memory . I still have some bullets in the original box but unfortunately are in boxes due to a move and I haven't unpacked yet. They are lead and according to my records made by a company called "Legend" if that means anything. Putting the thinking cap on, they could possibly be cast/swagged from the company. I since stop using lead and the little I reload are all copper jacketed or all copper. This could be a project for tomorrow to dig up that box, just to be accurate and picture.

Edit: Didn't have to dig to far.
View attachment 1161481 View attachment 1161482

Yeah, those are Cast bullets and that blue lube is most probably the source for your fouling. It's normal and not usually difficult to clean but you said you have to scrub it so again, I'm not sure what's going on. (sorry)

 

[Big-bore-bob]

Got out to the range today with the 1911, fired 200 rounds of my hp38/rmr load. Cleaned the barrel with montana extreme copper solvent and jb bore paste. Took 9 separate patches saturated with JB and the solvent 60-100 strokes per patch to clean the fouling out. None of the copper solvent patches came out blue like they do with copper fouling, I've never fired lead bullets but I think this might be lead fouling somehow. What do you all think? The pics are before and after the vigorous scrubbing