Hypothetical CCW Situation? Your Opinions Please.

[c919]

Ah Knoxville...

Such a nice place to live.

OP, I would think it would not be appropriate to draw unless he began advancing toward her. Otherwise he's a freak, but probably wouldn't be seen as an attacker in the eyes of the law.

But on the other hand, knoxville is extremely SD friendly. Had she drawn I'd bet the responding officers would have understood.

 

[Creature]

Had she drawn I'd bet the responding officers would have understood.

I wonder if a lone uniformed female LEO would have drawn her service weapon if confronted with the exact same situation?

 

[Kleanbore]

I wonder if a lone uniformed female LEO would have drawn her service weapon if confronted with the exact same situation?

Probably.. .it's a duty thing--sworn officer, you know.

 

[mljdeckard]

No grey area at all.

Would a jury believe that she was in fear of her life?

Stop, call the police, write a plate number down, stay alert, but absolutely nothing in this situation suggest deadly force is necessary or will become necessary. It warrants reporting, as flashers often have darker compulsions, and don't stop at flashing. But that doesn't mean it's bang-bang time.

 

[Creature]

Probably.. .it's a duty thing--sworn officer, you know.

Please explain.

 

[jahwarrior]

a little bit of pepper spray on the junk provides for some good watching, methinks. i've sprayed myself in the face; i'm pretty sure i wouldn't want any on my private particulars.

i don't think a gun would be appropriate in most circumstances. i say "some", because i think there are a few where it would be. for instance, if the pervert began to approach your mother while doing his business, your mother could have justifiably been in fear for her personal safety, which would entitle her to use deadly force, in most cases.

 

[Webbj0219]

Im not a woman, but if this happened to me My first thought would be this is probably some kinda prank. then if it looked to be real, ie. he is really enjoying this. Then id want to back away from him, maybe scream for help if he comes after you and kick him in the jewels and fight. Sux your not even aloud to drive through Canada with a gun.

 

[lloveless]

Yeti stated: In Tennessee, “sexual offenses” include crimes against persons such as rape and sexual battery, as well as offenses against public morality such as public indecency, indecent exposure and prostitution, all of which are Class B misdemeanors. See T.C.A. § 39-13-501 et seq.
So how come a guy I know is in jail for 20 years for raping his daughter. It sounds like it is more than a misdemeanor.
Second guessing anothers actions is difficult. Your mom is alive-good. The perp got away-not so good. Definitely report it along with a description of perp and his ride. Maybe it will be the necessary piece to a puzzle, and LE can put this guy away before he escalates.
ll

 

[yeti]

So how come a guy I know is in jail for 20 years for raping his daughter. It sounds like it is more than a misdemeanor.

The quote was just explaining that under the heading "Sexual Offenses," besides rape and battery, that are felonies, they include a class of crimes "offenses against public morality" that include the Class B misdemeanors of public indecency, indecent exposure and prostitution


“An Overview of Criminal Offenses under Tennessee Law”

John M. Scheb II
Department of Political Science
University of Tennessee, Knoxville

In Tennessee, “sexual offenses” include crimes against persons such as rape and sexual battery, as well as offenses against public morality such as public indecency, indecent exposure and prostitution, all of which are Class B misdemeanors. See T.C.A. § 39-13-501 et seq

 

[mcdonl]

I guess if I could have scripted their morning, I would have a) had your mom and dad stick together in a strange town or b) have your mom refill the coffee while dad carries out the luggage and get the car packed.

 

[uspJ]

Hot coffee thrown onto face or groin of said flasher, break out phone, snap a quick pic for posterity and evidence and call the cops.

Seriously though, nothing warranted any use of force. Your mom should have called the cops reported the event and been a good witness ( tag #, vehicle description as well of description of the offender.).

 

[ozarkgunner]

I didn't read all the posts, but a person could be justified in taking action against someone in thia situatio. There have been incidents where an attacker has had other charges added because he intentionally bled, spat, or other on or at a victum because the perp was positive for HIV or some other comunicable disease.
A person under that situation could reasonably believe they are in danger from his "bodily fluids".

 

[mljdeckard]

No one said anything about bodily fluids. And no, the presence of bodily fluids does not justify deadly force. Because there exists the POSSIBILITY of a communicable disease does not mean you have a justification to use deadly force RIGHT NOW to prevent it.

 

[Shadow 7D]

YEAH, while one might feel the urge to shove a gun up where the sun don't shine, doesn't mean it's the best to do, personally I would have either hit him with pepperspray or kicked him in the junk, locked the door and shut it (car was on, so he'd be locked out) then let the perv try to make it home with out pants on dodging cops.

 

[ozarkgunner]

I didn't mean using deadly force, but drawing a weapon would be justified. I'm 99.99% sure any LEO would draw their weapon if this situation occured to them in an attempt to stop the action.

 

[mljdeckard]

So....it's ok to draw a weapon if there is no threat present that might make you need to use it? The guy was being creepy and perhaps deviant. Not violent.

I also have a problem with the idea (particularly among LE) that it's ok to use sprays as compliance tools, rather than defense escalation steps.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by ozarkgunner: I didn't read all the posts, but a person could be justified in taking action against someone in thia situatio. There have been incidents where an attacker has had other charges added because he intentionally bled, spat, or other on or at a victum because the perp was positive for HIV or some other comunicable disease.

The charges that may be filed against someone have nothing to do with the justification of the actions that a potential victim may take. That justification hinges upon immediate necessity and the presence of imminent danger of death or serious bodily harm.

A person under that situation could reasonably believe they are in danger from his "bodily fluids".

Sure, but nothing necessitates the use of force, which could of course actually exacerbate the danger. The smart thing to do would be to avoid contact. The best weapon for that is distance.

I didn't mean using deadly force, but drawing a weapon would be justified.

Not for a civilian. Laws vary; in some jurisdictions, including mine, one may not draw except when engaged in a lawful act of self defense; in Texas, one may draw if force is justified; in Arizona, there is the lawful act of the defensive display of a firearm, but this episode would not meet the criteria; I don't know all fifty, but many are like the laws here in Missouri.

I'm 99.99% sure any LEO would draw their weapon if this situation occured to them in an attempt to stop the action.

I really doubt it, but sworn officers may draw and point their weapons in situations in which civilians may not.

Posted by mljdeckard: I also have a problem with the idea (particularly among LE) that it's ok to use sprays as compliance tools, rather than defense escalation steps.

So do I, but again, sworn officers have different roles and therefore, different rules. I carry an OC device all the time, in addition to a firearm, but I sure don't want to learn the boundaries of criminal and civil liability from the aftermath of my having used it when it was not necessary.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Some, maybe many states make the distinction between
use of Deadly force, and deadly force, and force
take a baseball bat, in defense, if you are hitting the guy in the arms and legs, maybe even body blows, it is seen as force, yet focus on the body/head, it is use of deadly force

At least in Alaska, drawing a weapon, displaying it is bringing deadly force into the situation, point the gun at someone and/or discharge it, well now it use of deadly force, and even though it's in the laws, it is still up to the DA.

IDK, maybe you would be justified in the prevention of a felony (esp. if kids are present) but I'm more for the video, lock him out of his ride and public humiliation part myself. Think about it, do you really think a flasher wants his face all across the 6 o'clock news?

 

[Cosmoline]

Hands are what kill. If his hands are... occupied.. then he's not presenting an imminent deadly threat.