Hypothetical workplace scenario...what would you do?

[98C5]

Let's say you carry your pistol in the car to work everyday. Everything is normal, then you hear shots being fired and people screaming. Knowing where I live, 911 response is at least 5-7 minutes away. I can get my pistol within 45 seconds. 5 minutes is a LOT of time for people to be killed or injured. Would you wait it out or get your firearm and try to neutralize the gunman?

The reason I ask, is because I work in a company that has 300+ employees. I, myself, work in an office of about 40. The rest are in the warehouse where there is a ton of exits and dock doors. I wondered what I would do myself if this scenario would occur.

What would you do?

 

[Majic]

Remember you are not at home. That handgun is a defensive weapon. If you go and retrieve it then go searching for whoever is shooting you are taking an offensive position. You are not simply defending yourself so who are you going to shoot? Anyone you see holding a firearm? If you can safely get to your car where the gun is kept then simply leave the area until it's safe to return.

 

[ilbob]

I vote for running to your car, arming yourself discretely, and staying with your car if it is far enough away from the building to offer some safety.

 

[GhostlyKarliion]

I wouldn't have left it in the car, so it is simple, draw and evaluate the situation, first priority is the safety of those in the room with me.

In your scenario, evaluate the situation, locate gunman, observe environment, plan action, initiate. First priority is the safety of those in room with me.

Anyone has to stop to reload sometime, when that happens, there will be either a chair or desk or fire extinguisher flying somewhere, and I will be close behind it.

*guy goes to reload*
*I throw chair at him, hitting his arms*
"ow, da..."
*bad guy goes down after taking the full force of a 6'5 330lb man hitting him full speed*


heh.

 

[Green Lantern]

Remember you are not at home. That handgun is a defensive weapon. If you go and retrieve it then go searching for whoever is shooting you are taking an offensive position.

+1

I'd weigh the "pros and cons" of running to your car to get out of there, vs finding somewhere safe to hide IN the workplace. Namely, if the BG is between you and escape, it's probably smarter just to take cover in the building.

Oh, and since I assume you're hypothetically disarmed IN the building because of hypothetical company policy, you might want to look into a hypothetical LAWYER to sue the pants off of this company if they don't put enough effort or $$$ into workplace security.

 

[Zen21Tao]

I would call the Brady Campaign and demand they send their Special Response Team to use warm hugs and choruses of Kum Bah Yah to "talk down" the attacker and then take away his gun.

 

[Werewolf]

Quote:
Remember you are not at home. That handgun is a defensive weapon. If you go and retrieve it then go searching for whoever is shooting you are taking an offensive position.

+1

Ahhhhh... So it's preferable just to let folks get killed when one may have the ability to stop it.

Yep... that's the ticket. Stand there and watch or better yet be a hero and call 911. Let the cops come and solve the problem while they wait outside, milling about, securing the area and waiting for their para-military commando wannabe buddies on SWAT to show up.

The victims will be most grateful for the forbearance and caution. After all that handgun is a defensive weapon.

 

[Green Lantern]

Not to be cold, but - The victims should know WELL by now the risks of working in a "gun-free" zone. Thus, most of them should have a bare minimum of a "SHTF" plan, even if only "keep an eye out for suspicious people!"

While I understand well the urge of wanting to protect all "good" people, it has to be tempered with the urge to stay around to protect and provide for specific people - namely my family.

 

[GEM]

1. Do you just want to save yourself?

2. Are the fellow employees worth enough to you to risk your own life? This is a cold blooded calculation.

3. If you save the day but you get killed - your fellow employees have a nice day and no disruption to their lives. Is the disruption to your family's life in term of finances and grief worth saving the fellow employees? Oh, Gee - I saved the boss but the twins lost their daddy for the rest of their lives.

4. If you save your butt but others get killed, can you live with yourself - given you made a rational decision based on the outcome to you and your family?

5. Are you so driven by moral outrage that you don't actually care about the risks?

Easy just to propose the commando option on the Internet.

 

[Notch]

There is no reason to protect anyone other than yourself and your family. Everyone has the chance to decide for themselves if they are going to be ready to protect themselves. Many of those people have decided that not only are they going to "walk naked", but that you have no right to protect youself as well. Risking your life for theirs is a fools folly. If you are ready to risk your life for others when you have children at home depending on you, bad move. If'n ya dont have kids, then go ahead, doesnt matter much what happens to ya.

 

[MEH]

The only weapon I have at work is a boot knife, only because our wonderful government has decided that a law-abiding 18 year old should not be able to defend himself with a gun.

That being said, I have heard shots fired while working in bad areas of York. There really isn't much I can do I don't have a car to keep a gun in and I don't want to get hassled by the Police for open carry.

 

[Green Lantern]

Also, remember where Majic is coming from - leaving the scene and then coming back into it, and under the assumption that you have not SEEN the shooter!

Like he said - WHO do you shoot???????

See a guy in a suit and tie with a pistol. Is he another worker there in that large workplace who has gotten his own gun? Or is HE the shooter???

Then he sees YOU - and he's either thinking the same thing, or if he is the shooter, he's probably sizing you up for a coffin.

Without being omnipotent, or at least being able to read minds, walking blind into such a situation is an invitation to disaster, IMHO.

 

[unrealtrip]

If/when the cops show up, how do they distinguish you from the shooter?

 

[skinnyguy]

It's really hard to say exactly what you would do in such a situation, you would have to be IN the situation to know. I would like to think that I'd be able to get to my gun, and at least try to stop the attack. Not to be the hero, but so I could live with myself tomorrow. In getting to my pistol, and returning to the scene, I'm still using it for defense. Defense for the other people who don't have any way to defend themselves from the psycho.

Remember Trolley Square.

 

[akodo]

It all depends on the situation. The fire department will tell you 'never run into a burning burning building' but we all here would do that to get our families out. Many of us here would do that if we thought the neighbor's kids were in there. Yet I don't think anyone here would say 'Run into a burning building.'


It's all a matter of the EXACT details of the situation, details you just aren't going to be able to hammer out to have your own 'rule of thumb'. The details of the situation will then weigh against your personal family responsibilities and your own moral code.


I was reading an article about CCWers with handguns vs crazy criminals with rifles. One was a shooting just outside a courthouse, where two CCWers were present. One CCWer drew and herded his family to saftey. The other CCWer drew and engaged the crazy just as the crazy was about to execute his own child. Unfortunately, the crazy, in addtion to a rifle, had bodyarmor. It was unknown if the CCWer kept on doing torso shots, or was trying headshots and missing, but the rifleman eventually winged the CCWer, which caused him to go into shot and stop moving/running for cover. The CCWer just hunkered down behind the pickup he had moved to, and the crazy circled it and killed him.

I cannot condemn the choice of either CCWer.

 

[Lashlarue]

I would get my gun, and return to the scene.The odds are heavily in your favor that anyone you encounter with a gun is the bad guy. Shoot, ask questions later!Both of my carry guns are small enough to be palmed, a P-11 and NA Black widow, so I would be in a good position to size up the situation without being an open threat to the bad guy.

 

[Green Lantern]

Shoot, ask questions later!

Now I don't know whether I would have trouble living with myself if I fled and saved my own hide while others were killed....

But I *KNOW* I would have trouble living myself if I went into a firefight and killed a "good guy" by mistake!!!!

 

[blackhawk2000]

OK, I've been in a slightly similar situation. Long story short, I stopped my neighbor from beating on his pregnant wife. I ended up going to jail for an hour or so. My guns were taken away for a few weeks. All because the husband lied to the police. The wife eventually came in, and backed me up with the truth. Would I do this again? Not really sure. It could have ended very badly for me, without even firing a shot.

Protect yourself. Protect your family. In that order. Everyone else should have there own guns to protect themselves. I know that sounds cold, but so is life.

 

[98C5]

I am somewhat shocked at the responses I have seen here. Save yourself?? What the hell is the point of having a CCW if it just to save yourself? Honestly, I wouldn't think twice but to neutralize the situation. I would tell someone to phone 911 agian and to describe my clothing in detail so I may be distinguished from the BG. Then do what I can to stop him. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot the BG if I deemed it necessary.

 

[Zeke Menuar]

I CCW a XD45 Service that unfortunately stays in the car.

There is also a Mosin M38 with 160 rounds on strippers in the trunk.

I'd go for it. No matter what the BG had, I could give him a run. The 7.62x54R should get through most body armor. I can hit popcans at 100 yards and can work the strippers pretty fast. I don't want to get into a straight up firefight, but if I can get off a shot, I'd do it.

I know for sure there are at least 5 people on my shift that have CHL's and keep firearms in the car.

But it really depends on the individual situation. The most important thing to do is to get all the sheeple out of the building as fast as possible.

ZM

 

[busy_squirrel]

This answer is neither politically correct nor sound legal advice.

I always leave at least one firearm in my car and sometimes carry at work in addition. Coworkers (small branch) know to go to my vehicle if they need to arm themselves.

I've thought this over many times, and due to clientele, work atmosphere, building layout, number of coworkers, etc., etc., etc. The correct answer for ME is:

1. Establish perimeter with as many friendlies outside of perimeter as immediately possible.
2. Arm the willing.
3. Contain the threat by any means necessary.

 

[blackhawk2000]

Am I supposed to feed my neighbors? Give money to bums? Uhh no. I am supposed to feed my family, and take care of them as best I can. How exactly do I do this when I am dead or in jail? Screw everyone else. They should take care of themselves, like I take care of myself.

It's all warm and fuzzy to think you will rush in and save the day, but in reality it more than likely won't end up that way. It's different if you are standing there and packing, when the shooter comes in shooting, but if you can make it to the car call 911, and get out!

 

[Riz58]

Thanks for posting the hypo.

The first question is: Can I get to my car? If not, organize the forty and set up a quick defense plan in case the shooter comes into your area.

If you can get out - Do you get the others out first, or go to the car and wait, or go to the car and come back and cover as the other 40 make good their escape? Or do you go on the hunt for the BG?

I have developed for myself what I call a attiitude of "zone defense" for lack of a better term. I am reasonably competent with a pistol, don't panic in stressful situations, and generally am in a leadership position. I have decided in the event of a gunman running amok, I will defend my zone.

By this I mean, I will assist others to escape while I provide cover, and then will escape myself. This works for malls, work, church, etc. I am not trained to search out and handle gunmen at large, but I can think defensively and shoot from cover/concealment.

In this case, if everyone was not out in my area at work, I would probably urge everyone to follow me out, go to the car, grab the pistol, and return to cover the stragglers, and then beat a final retreat. Hopefully those folks would be out and gone before I could get to the car and back.

This thread will soon degenerate into a question as to whether one should take the risk to defend others. I believe I should. Men need to reassert themselves as the protectors in society, and realize there is something at stake greater than themselves. I work with Scouts and spend a lot of time teaching them that their greatest responsibility is not themselves (although that is important), but what they do to improve (and protect) society as a whole.

Men (or maybe better stated - males) dominate gang culture, drug culture, and crime in general. It takes men who are lawful (not just LEO's) to stand up to these brutes otherwise we will cede whole cities to them. (See New Orleans, inner-city Detroit, and specific areas of most major cities.)

It is this view that would lead me to go back and provide cover.

 

[98C5]

Screw everyone else

How sad. I'm sorry you feel that way. I would never abandon my friends/coworkers. I don't know what to say to your statement blackhawk. I'm shocked.

 

[blackhawk2000]

Are they going to pay my lawyers fees? Are they going to support my kids, and Wife? Are they going to pay for my funeral? Doubt it. Carry your own gun, I'm not your bodyguard.

You ever had your guns taken away, for saving someones life? I have. It won't happen again. Screw everyone else. Get your own gun.