I didn't think about THAT! HMMMM!?

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Josey

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Feb 11, 2003
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Catfish Co, KY
I was out eating with some friends. We were talking and clothing choices came up. My friends know I CCW. Some of them CCW. We were discussing statement clothing. I was wearing a southern heritage confederate flag t-shirt. One friend was wearing a american pride flag t-shirt and there were other casual statements being made. One girl was wearing a halter with wise printed over a graphic of a donkey. Get the mental image? Typical saturday morning Huddle House clothing. My friend brought up an issue. If a black BG came in to rob the Huddle House and I was forced to shoot, would it be twisted into a hate crime? I have a CSA, rebel, heritage not hate, confederate flag t-shirt on. I just shot a black BG. On the surface I can see my friends point. OTOH, If a Pink Pistols member shoots a straight BG, is that a hate crime? Could our choice of casual clothing actually make us look bad in a shooting incident? Should I go find some MMM t-shirts for concealment?:neener:
 
I was wearing a southern heritage confederate flag t-shirt.
Click to expand...

heh.

In some parts of California, you could be prosecuted for a hate crime JUST FOR WEARING THAT, without shooting anybody.:eek:
 
Mildly interesting questions - -

- - But a very inexact parallel.

In your hypothet, is the Pink Pistols member wearing a garment proclaiming some sort of antagonistic message when he shoots the straight hoodlum? Might the shooter be accused of purposely choosing his apparel on that day to see if he could anger some rabid homophobe?

If not, I think this would be a somewhat different situation.

Your profile shows your occupation as "Retired Chief Law Enforcement Officer." Does this mean you have had some former affiliation with some agency of the public peace? If so, I'm sure you have a knowledge of the law with respect to "Provocative Behavior" or the local equivalent.

Catfish County, KY? :p

Best,
Johnny
 
maybe someone would try to pull the race card but i dont think you would be guilty of a hate crime unless you yelled something rediculous like 'die blacky' while shooting him.
 
The pink pistols do have some rather in your face stuff. The question is to provoke thought. We were thinking also about ordering THR stuff. I could see a THR member being arrested by an anti prosecutor for wearing THR logo clothing after a self defense shooting. I have been called actually to a incident involving clothing in the past. A Jewish woman was going ballistic because a kid was wearing a t-shirt that asked WHAT 6 Million?. The kid was wearing it as a form of rebellion. She was wanting to tear it off of the kid. She cooled off when I explained she would go to jail if she did so. The kid was within his rights. Not right, just legal. I could envision a clothing choice being upsetting to some sensibilities. I used to wear a t-shirt that said NO appeal and showed a gallows, open noose and a cemetary in the graphic. I was actually called on the carpet for wearing that. My time, my choice.
 
sad but true.

might be a little safer to do so in the south, but i'd say wearing that t-shirt and having to shoot a black bg in self defense would be a big mess.

i think it would definately be an issue in the courtroom, and would depend on how good the prosecutor is and who sits in the jury box.

i enjoy statement t-shirts as well, but when i'm carrying i'm lo profile.
 
Yeah, I can't tell you how many dipsticks show up to court in pot-leaf t-shirts and the like. Or a big Bud t-shirt (and he's there on a DWI accident with GBH). :rolleyes:

Job security, I guess.
 
Josey, think about it another way. If you were a prosecuter, and you had a shoot where a man with a swastica arm band shot a Jewish bad guy, wouldnt you bring up the arm band? It would look really bad in court.
 
After seeing a fight start over a fairly innoculous sweatshirt, I stick to plain inoffensive colors and few if any statements. OK I do have a "Wilson" sweatshirt around here somewhere.

Geoff
Who wears white underwear, without graphics, from JC Penney. :what:
 
I wear plain tee shirts, for just such an emergency. Not advertising anybody or any POV on my shirts, thanks.

But I do have a THR baseball cap, and one from Remington... . :^)

lpl/nc
 
Erich, quit stealing stories from my life!!!

Josey, here's the case I tell my guys: I had a trucker from Joe-juh a few years ago. Hired me for an infraction trial on Unsafe Lane Movement and Following Too Closely. Big deal to a trucker and this guy had been driving over 20 years with a squeaky clean record.

Showed up for trial with a great big Stars n' Bars emblazoned on his shirt!!!:eek: Since we met early and it was a bench trial with several others set, I put us on at the back of the line and raced across the street (should have seen me run in a suit:p) to my office and got my back-up dress shirt that I keep in case of soup stains, sushi incidents or stray coffee.

Had him turn the t-shirt inside out and wear the dress shirt over it. My guy was found not liable, which as a trucker made his day and then some (one of the few that actually sent me a Chirstmas card).

I asked the judge the next week as he was ribbing me about my unorthodox defense exhibits (I used Matchbox cars on a foam poster board in crossing the cops) about whether he noted anything usual about my guy. He said no and I told him about the CSA flag shirt.

The judge frowned and said it was a horrible thing to have on. I then asked if he would have held it against my guy. The judge said "I would have TRIED not to, but I can't make any guarantees."

Guess I'm the same way. If sitting on a jury, as much as I loathe that symbol, I sure would say I would look past a CSA banner. However, I got my deep prejudices and who can say what kind of bearing that would have on a close case.

If you look like food, you will be eaten. If you look like someone who should be hassled by the po-po, you will be hassled. If you look like someone who needs to be convicted, you just may be convicted.

If you have that concern, prepare for it. Problem #2 and all.
 
LOL! El Tejon, I used to have a Matchbox collection and dioramas myself. I worked traffic safety and was a EVOC instructor trainer.
 
The jury simulation literature makes it pretty clear that such factors do influence decisions. It may not even have to be explicitly brought up and you claimed to be a bigot. Simply showing your photograph at time of arrest, if one was taken, might do it.

Your call on what you wear.
 
I would think if you are CCWing, you would not want to wear ANYTHING that can cause people to look at you.
 
I've recently come to enjoy wearing those hawaiian shirts...especially the darker ones.

Other than that, I might have a Steelers jersey and a Suarez shirt. I'm a big believer in simple pocket T's.

And NO pastels!
 
I go for plaid and other patterns that are pretty typical of casual dress for someone my age (29)
ona249297-02p1.jpg

Something like that.
Plus pattern and plain tshirts.
I've got a few hawaiain shirts, mostly for BBQ's and 'hawaiiain shirt fridays' at work (sort of a friday night tradition).
For everyday wear, overstated hawaiiain shirts stand out a little too much. Simple ones are great carry garments, though.
 
My THR shirts have an American flag, The High Road, and Molon Labe (which is pretty innocuous).

It isn't like I have an AK-47 and COME GET SOME screened on it. :)
 
I wear my THR shirt (Thanks, Larry!) to work, and when shooting in my backyard. I usually like to keep to non-contrversial t-stirts and hats, unless you consider Harley clothing controversial.;)
 
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