I don't get sporterizing...
- Thread starter HDCamel
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If you don't see the benefits then you haven't used the rifle in the same way as those who do see the benefits. If you hike, and not just from the ATV up the tree stand, every pound is very important. If you hunt in dense areas, a shorter barrel is important. If you need a longer LOP than the 5'8" grunt wearing full winter gear that the stock was designed for then it may be important.
Anymore, there isn't really a benefit to modifying milsurp rifles. They have increased in price and factory rifles have fallen in price. You can buy quite a few sub 2MOA rifles for under $400 today, some of which will hold sub 1MOA. Back when sporterizing was in it's prime that wasn't the case. Milsurp rifles were far less expensive than commercial rifles. Taking a $25 rifle, stoning the trigger, hacking the barrel off, reshaping the stock, and adding a longer recoil pad only really cost that of the recoil pad. I think a lot of sporterized rifles are done so in poor taste or with poor execution, but I can certainly understand why many of them were done.
If we are talking about doing this today I have a much harder time appreciating the benefits of buying and modifying a milsurp when commercial rifles are available for similar or often lower prices.
Anymore, there isn't really a benefit to modifying milsurp rifles. They have increased in price and factory rifles have fallen in price. You can buy quite a few sub 2MOA rifles for under $400 today, some of which will hold sub 1MOA. Back when sporterizing was in it's prime that wasn't the case. Milsurp rifles were far less expensive than commercial rifles. Taking a $25 rifle, stoning the trigger, hacking the barrel off, reshaping the stock, and adding a longer recoil pad only really cost that of the recoil pad. I think a lot of sporterized rifles are done so in poor taste or with poor execution, but I can certainly understand why many of them were done.
If we are talking about doing this today I have a much harder time appreciating the benefits of buying and modifying a milsurp when commercial rifles are available for similar or often lower prices.
BIGEDP51...Thanks so much for the funniest post I've ever seen. That lighter faster cooler P51 was the best. I appreciate you're humor. Great job!!
I have too much respect for the originals and the people who carried them to be interested much in sporters.
I have too much respect for the originals and the people who carried them to be interested much in sporters.
Ignition Override
Member
HDCamel:
A member at "Surplusrifle" started that exact topic several weeks ago and a moderator used very sarcastic, insulting language as a response to the OP's critiques. It was in huge, bold letters.
I found the moderators' response quite unprofessional, feeling very disappointed in the "Surplusrifle" website's standards, and after reading it I only suggested that some people needed a "good nights' " sleep.
I was not allowed any more access to that topic thread.
Such delicate "thin skin" for a moderator indicated a fair bit of guilty feelings on somebody's part.
My gun show buddies who are pretty astute about many milsurp rifle values never look twice at a sporterized gun, although we realize that many were often in sorry condition before they were modified-but many were not.
A member at "Surplusrifle" started that exact topic several weeks ago and a moderator used very sarcastic, insulting language as a response to the OP's critiques. It was in huge, bold letters.
I found the moderators' response quite unprofessional, feeling very disappointed in the "Surplusrifle" website's standards, and after reading it I only suggested that some people needed a "good nights' " sleep.
I was not allowed any more access to that topic thread.
Such delicate "thin skin" for a moderator indicated a fair bit of guilty feelings on somebody's part.
My gun show buddies who are pretty astute about many milsurp rifle values never look twice at a sporterized gun, although we realize that many were often in sorry condition before they were modified-but many were not.
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Twmaster
Member
That's sad that your buddies won't hardly look at sporterized rifles. The old Arisaka I mentioned previously in this thread is ugly and bubba'd. However it shoots very well with the original open military sights.
The best part? I paid $40 for the thing. It's one of my favorite shooters.
There is a difference between a 'Sporter' and a 'Budda'd gun. There's a pawn shop in town that has a magnificent sporter VZ24. It wears a custom .30-06 barrel, cut back original stock too and a bent bolt. The rifle is magnificent. If I had the $300 the shop wants I'd own it.
The best part? I paid $40 for the thing. It's one of my favorite shooters.
There is a difference between a 'Sporter' and a 'Budda'd gun. There's a pawn shop in town that has a magnificent sporter VZ24. It wears a custom .30-06 barrel, cut back original stock too and a bent bolt. The rifle is magnificent. If I had the $300 the shop wants I'd own it.
sayak
Member
I have three "sporterized" milsurps. Two are Enfields, and one is a Mosin. I have gotten tremendous pleasure working on these rifles and shooting them. I am very aware that it is not a cost effective endeavor. I imagine that it is somewhat like hotrodders working over a older vehicle to make it what they want it to be. Probably there are some who do not approve of that either.
The long and short of it is that there are lots of things that I too don't really appreciate in the gun world, but I figure, "to each his own" and keep my mouth shut. We are all shooters with varying passions regarding guns. I don't think we really need to try to figure each other out.
The long and short of it is that there are lots of things that I too don't really appreciate in the gun world, but I figure, "to each his own" and keep my mouth shut. We are all shooters with varying passions regarding guns. I don't think we really need to try to figure each other out.
Zombiphobia
Member
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- Oct 31, 2010
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- 646
I've been cnsidering having a sporterized job done on my Mauser. Decent hunting ammo is hard to come by in 8mm Mauser around here, the sites suck, and the stock looks like garbage anyway. Besides, it feels like it weights around 15 lbs.
The bore is almost mint though so I'd feel bad about changing it to something else.
Still, with a better fit, smoother operation of the bolt, and something done about sighting it'd be jam-up for hunting or long-range target shooting. Yup, nothing wrong with sporterizing unless it's bubba'd.
451 Detonics, I really like what you've done with yours. That's a beautiful stock.
The bore is almost mint though so I'd feel bad about changing it to something else.
Still, with a better fit, smoother operation of the bolt, and something done about sighting it'd be jam-up for hunting or long-range target shooting. Yup, nothing wrong with sporterizing unless it's bubba'd.
451 Detonics, I really like what you've done with yours. That's a beautiful stock.
If you did then I think you would certainly understand the benefit of trimming down the barrel in length as well as trimming the rifle down in weight. There is much more utility in a shorter, lighter rifle. It doesn't have to be scoped either just because it's been sporterized. Really, look at a current production hunting rifle and its benefits in a non-military use. Then look at a Milsurp and its drawbacks in a non-military use. Then look at sporterized Milsurps which try to emulate the popular current production hunting rifles as close as possible.
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Beautyful Krag!
I was gonna ask, if anyone made a K31 Scout ...
but google found me this:
http://www.scoutrifle.org/index.php?topic=646.0
I was gonna ask, if anyone made a K31 Scout ...
but google found me this:
http://www.scoutrifle.org/index.php?topic=646.0
Sav .250
Member
If you enjoy carring a heavy weapon around all day, more power to you.
jimmyraythomason
Member
Hmmmm....all guns should meet MY personal criteria. Let me choose your wife for you and where you live,maybe what kind of car you drive. After-all,I see no use for a 4wd on city streets,so why own one? Now why did you go and put that lift kit on that Escalade? Couldn't you just leave it alone? Bottom line,built it like you want it or buy it like you want it. No-one else need be involved. BTW,the vast majority of sporterized mil-surps had no significant historical value and those that did were sporterized long before collectors decided they wanted them. All of my sporters were made from spare parts out of some-one's junk drawer.
jimmyraythomason
Member
Sure there is. If your only guage is the dollar sign ($) then you may be content with a Steven's Model 200(yes I have one of them too and no I did not leave it stock). Building mil-surp sporters isn't only theraputic but the finished product is a source of pride for years to come(plus it does what it was built to do very well).
jimmyraythomason
Member
Refurbishing a mil-surp with original parts is far more expensive that sporterizing. I have done this as well and finding historically accurate replacement parts is a time consuming and expensive undertaking. Once a rifle is restored it is still just a mixmaster not worth the sum of it's parts. By the cost vs value scale this is a money losing venture.
jimmyraythomason
Member
Before and after; I bought this Colombian Model 1950 in 30.06 for $60,just a receiver ejector box and badly corroded barrel. This is the finished product. Outside of installing and chambering(.308 win) the barrel,I did all of the work myself,including D&T for scope and hot-bluing. Do you think maybe I was better off leaving it alone? Second rifle came with just what you see. On this one I retained the original barrel and chambering (30.06). I don't think I hurt their re-sale value or collectability much. Do you?
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jimmyraythomason
Member
A couple more. Colombian in 30.06. On this one I installed and chambered the take-off barrel into the stripped receiver (Gunbroker $40) as well as all other work. Result was a 1 moa shooter. Second is a Turk Mauser in .280 rem. The Turk also was a stripped receiver from GB.
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jimmyraythomason
Member
I buy up parts as I find them and save until The urge to build another rifle hits me 
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Another call for pictures
When I found this one the only wood left on it was the butt stock !
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If you feel an unaltered military rifle handles better than one that has been sporterized that's fine by me. To each his own.
You think an altered military rifle is ugly. Again, beauty is in the eye...
But I have to disagree on both counts. My sporters feel and look better to me.
You think an altered military rifle is ugly. Again, beauty is in the eye...
But I have to disagree on both counts. My sporters feel and look better to me.
It's not just about cost. It's cost vs benefit.
It's definitely not about collector's value. Only those pretentious jackholes who buy GI Joes and leave them in the box as an "investment" care about collector's value.
In general, sporterizing turns what could be a great general purpose rifle into an average hunting rifle. What you gain in hunting ability does not outweigh what you lose in cost, time, and non-hunting applications. Of course, the law of diminishing returns applies in that, you can make it a great hunting rifle, but it requires many times more time and money to do it.
When you restore a gun, you're making a once great rifle great again.
Take this from a guy who used to hunt a lot and has since grown tired of hunting and the culture around it. Even when I did hunt, the box stock milsurps I used just felt better in my hands and easier to use than ANY sport rifle, even purpose built hunting rifles. I'm not assuming that everyone is like me, but I do work under the assumption that military rifles are designed to be "everyman" guns AND that their designers are better gun designers than I am.
It's definitely not about collector's value. Only those pretentious jackholes who buy GI Joes and leave them in the box as an "investment" care about collector's value.
In general, sporterizing turns what could be a great general purpose rifle into an average hunting rifle. What you gain in hunting ability does not outweigh what you lose in cost, time, and non-hunting applications. Of course, the law of diminishing returns applies in that, you can make it a great hunting rifle, but it requires many times more time and money to do it.
When you restore a gun, you're making a once great rifle great again.
Take this from a guy who used to hunt a lot and has since grown tired of hunting and the culture around it. Even when I did hunt, the box stock milsurps I used just felt better in my hands and easier to use than ANY sport rifle, even purpose built hunting rifles. I'm not assuming that everyone is like me, but I do work under the assumption that military rifles are designed to be "everyman" guns AND that their designers are better gun designers than I am.
jimmyraythomason
Member
You apparently didn't read any of my posts did you? It isn't about hunting anymore than it is about cost. It is about DOING. The one size fits all approach to gun design may work( in the broadest general terms) for armies but not among the gun owning fraternity. Again you gain nothing more by restoring a, run of the mill, mil-surp than you do by sporterizing the same. Both are a collection of un-original parts. The object is to be happy with the outcome as well as enjoying the trip to get there.
Nothing except a more versatile rifle.
Look man, all I'm saying is that milsurps always felt like they were good enough (or better) as is and that sporterizing always seemed like a waste of time to me. You say it's about being happy with the outcome, well, I'm already happy with the config, why change it?
Freedom_fighter_in_IL
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- Aug 30, 2010
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- 2,097
HD, I am 6'5" 250+ with arms that makes a Gorillas arms look short! The LOP on ANY stock military grade rifle, both old and modern, is MUCH too short for my form.
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