I bought 5 98K's for 200 bucks. The barrels were rotten, the stocks cracked at the wrist, no top handguards and all the metal fittings on the forward part of the rifles was missing. What I most interested in were the actions. Paragon Sales had some nice 8mm Mauser barrels priced at 5 for 100 bucks with sights. Screwed the new barrels on to the actions. Cut and rounded the front of the original stocks, fixed the wrists, refinished the stocks. Ended up with right around 100 bucks in each. Sold four for 200 dollars each. What I wanted was a cheap solid reliable and easy to carry rifle and that's pretty much what I got.
I don't get sporterizing...
- Thread starter HDCamel
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My 1917 Enfield '06 came brand-new in the cosmoline, super-cheap from DCM in the late 1940s. It was given to me in 1950 by my gunsmith uncle. Back then, lots of folks liked the idea of a $5 rifle as compared to a $65 Model 70.
I first finished out a semi-finished Bishop stock. $25. A year later we shortened the barrel and drilled and tapped for a K2.5.
My father had sporterized a couple of Springfields. Given how many times he got drafted into killing deer for the whiskey drinking poker players at deer camps--making them put their tags on the bucks--it's likely that he killed a couple of hundred deer before he hung it up.
Back then there were a gazillion of the Old Uglies. Changing an Ugly into masterpieces like those shown by SaxonPig was a common way to deal with it.
But I recall hock shops full of Navy Colts and SAAs for $25 and $35. And old 92s and 94s for about the same price. In 1969 I saw a fully accoutered, boxed, Walker Colt in a hockshop in Denver for $600--but I didn't have $600.
Times change. Don't judge "then" by "now".
I first finished out a semi-finished Bishop stock. $25. A year later we shortened the barrel and drilled and tapped for a K2.5.
My father had sporterized a couple of Springfields. Given how many times he got drafted into killing deer for the whiskey drinking poker players at deer camps--making them put their tags on the bucks--it's likely that he killed a couple of hundred deer before he hung it up.
Back then there were a gazillion of the Old Uglies. Changing an Ugly into masterpieces like those shown by SaxonPig was a common way to deal with it.
But I recall hock shops full of Navy Colts and SAAs for $25 and $35. And old 92s and 94s for about the same price. In 1969 I saw a fully accoutered, boxed, Walker Colt in a hockshop in Denver for $600--but I didn't have $600.
Times change. Don't judge "then" by "now".
Couple of Mausers I had done. The Swede turned out to be my favorite hunting rifle.
K98 into a scout, also a tack drive.
K98 into a scout, also a tack drive.
Some folks enjoy turning an otherwise useless, to them, milsurp into a custom hunting rifle. Others prefer to restore a bubba sporter back into an accurate representation of history. I prefer the latter, but taking a junk milsurp and making it shootable is likely enjoyable work.
I consider sporter Military weapons abominations, but that is because I prefer the historical significance. If they're otherwise unshootable junk they're better off as sporters. It can be hard to find all the correct pieces for an accurate Military restoral. It can be quite a lot of work and craftsmanship to do a sporter correctly.
There is value in both, especially if your talents, like mine, are not in wood working.
I consider sporter Military weapons abominations, but that is because I prefer the historical significance. If they're otherwise unshootable junk they're better off as sporters. It can be hard to find all the correct pieces for an accurate Military restoral. It can be quite a lot of work and craftsmanship to do a sporter correctly.
There is value in both, especially if your talents, like mine, are not in wood working.
Kendal Black
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Something not to overlook if you are cheap: A badly botched Bubba conversion rifle can often be bought for little money. You then use it as the basis for a better rifle. 
I LOVE the look of that!Turns it into a hunting rifle instead of a club? I dunno.
I've had the shape of the stock in my head all day, please post more pics and info!
Edit: The sling is a nice touch as well. What have you used it for?
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The three main arguments used by the purists are...
It lowers value
This is only true in rare cases. Most of the time the value remain the about same or increases a bit depending on the quality of work and the depth of the sporteriztion. In some cases it greatly improves the value...try pricing a Griffin and Howe Mauser or Enfield sporter today. Same can be said for many other American and European gunsmiths.
It is destroying history.
It is impossible to destroy history...history is a time period in the past so without a time machine you aren't doing a thing to history. Having said that I will agree that some military firearms do have important historical significance. I would would never condone anyone sporterizing a firearm with historical providence such as the rifle issued and used by Sgt York. But in general the millions of firearms out there are just tools. They are not holy relics and there will always be plenty of untouched examples for historians to look at.
It doesn't improve the rifle.
That is a matter of opinion, to me a rifle that fits correctly, weighs less, has a more standard OAL, has better sights, and a better trigger would qualify as being improved.
I don't bash purists for wanting to keep their guns in military configuration. I don't bash the guns saying the are worthless and ugly. Be nice if the purist gave the same respect to the guys who like their sporters.
It lowers value
This is only true in rare cases. Most of the time the value remain the about same or increases a bit depending on the quality of work and the depth of the sporteriztion. In some cases it greatly improves the value...try pricing a Griffin and Howe Mauser or Enfield sporter today. Same can be said for many other American and European gunsmiths.
It is destroying history.
It is impossible to destroy history...history is a time period in the past so without a time machine you aren't doing a thing to history. Having said that I will agree that some military firearms do have important historical significance. I would would never condone anyone sporterizing a firearm with historical providence such as the rifle issued and used by Sgt York. But in general the millions of firearms out there are just tools. They are not holy relics and there will always be plenty of untouched examples for historians to look at.
It doesn't improve the rifle.
That is a matter of opinion, to me a rifle that fits correctly, weighs less, has a more standard OAL, has better sights, and a better trigger would qualify as being improved.
I don't bash purists for wanting to keep their guns in military configuration. I don't bash the guns saying the are worthless and ugly. Be nice if the purist gave the same respect to the guys who like their sporters.
I've owned only three milsurps. A 1925 Izzy 91/30, which I sold in it's un-bubba'd condition. I realized I wasn't ever going to choose it over my M-44, it had no sentimental value, so it was out the door at no loss.
I inherited an Arisaka, which will be left in it's historical military configuration. This does have sentimental value, and will remain as is, unsold, until the next generation of my family inherits the rifle.
And my M-44. Yeah, it's been bubba'd, but not horribly so. It lacks historical value imo, (a '53 Hungarian M-44) and the stock had already been broken in a few places. The upper handguard is gone, and the last inch or so where the forward barrel band would have been is also missing. It wasn't in the greatest condition when I got it. The stock was stripped sanded and refinished. I got another endcap for the stock and fitted to the end of the stock. It didn't fit perfectly, so I had to reshape the area for it to fit. The stock is the only permanent alteration I've made to the rifle. The steel buttplate has been replaced with a rubber one, the rear leaf sight was pulled and replaced with a scout scope mount.
I guess the stock alterations would consider it being bubba'd, but I honestly don't know who, when or where they were done. For all I know, the barrel bands and upper handguard were lost on a battleield somewhere, and the bit of the stock that was cut down was done by a soldier in the field. The rifle didn't get an arsenal refurb, and I got it from a mil-surp collector, so really the only thing I've done it ti was fit and end cap to the front of the stock to prevent further damage from occuring.
Is that Bubba?
I inherited an Arisaka, which will be left in it's historical military configuration. This does have sentimental value, and will remain as is, unsold, until the next generation of my family inherits the rifle.
And my M-44. Yeah, it's been bubba'd, but not horribly so. It lacks historical value imo, (a '53 Hungarian M-44) and the stock had already been broken in a few places. The upper handguard is gone, and the last inch or so where the forward barrel band would have been is also missing. It wasn't in the greatest condition when I got it. The stock was stripped sanded and refinished. I got another endcap for the stock and fitted to the end of the stock. It didn't fit perfectly, so I had to reshape the area for it to fit. The stock is the only permanent alteration I've made to the rifle. The steel buttplate has been replaced with a rubber one, the rear leaf sight was pulled and replaced with a scout scope mount.
I guess the stock alterations would consider it being bubba'd, but I honestly don't know who, when or where they were done. For all I know, the barrel bands and upper handguard were lost on a battleield somewhere, and the bit of the stock that was cut down was done by a soldier in the field. The rifle didn't get an arsenal refurb, and I got it from a mil-surp collector, so really the only thing I've done it ti was fit and end cap to the front of the stock to prevent further damage from occuring.
Is that Bubba?
The time for sporterizing the WWII or up to 1947 milsurps is over, unless the particular rifle has some characteristic which makes restoration not an option. The old stocks generally aren't that heavy, (ever weigh those handguards?) and the actions, particularly on the SMLE do NOT need "smoothed up". The only "real" advantage of sporterizing is adding a magnified optic. You can usually find a way to do that without completely turning the thing into a "frankenrifle"
slicksleeve
Member
I recently bought a large ring mauser from an open, no reserve auction. It supposedly was one of only 5000 made for the country of El Salvador. That sounds like a very unique historical rifle. I have every intention of turning it into a sporter by the opening day of deer season 2012. If it is such a historical rifle, why did I get it for a whopping $74? Since I can drill and tap, weld bolt handles, rust blue, and stain wood myself, the most expensive part of this build will be the barrel and trigger, and I will have my rifle, built my way. When I see any milsurp rifle, the first thing I think is, "That would make a fine sporter project."
Moose458, those stocks are NICE! Please send me the makers of those. They look familiar but I just can't place them. I have a Germ 1941 K98 action just begging to be barreled and bedded in one of them purdy thangs! May just be the ticket to get the wife to lemmi build the .260rem now! She thinks they are purdy too!
morcey2
Member
Exactly. But I do have to add a minor addendum. If you ask me what I think you should do with a rifle, don't get offended when you don't agree with my opinion.
I almost bid on the rifle you got, but it was too pitted and damaged to make it very collectible and it would have taken too much work to get it in shootable condition.
The biggest problem I see with mausers is that they make such awesome customs. There are still quite a few out there, but the price has increased enough to make the old "cheap sporter" conversion less attractive. For me that's good, but I still get tempted to turn my Argentine 1909 bubba into a 35 Whelen or 338-06 or something similar.
I've got a yugo K98 receiver (standard length, not intermediate) that is turning into a 257 roberts over the next few months. It's already been drilled and tapped, but if I had gotten it as a complete gun, I probably wouldn't have converted it.
I never seem to want to turn any of my mosin's into sporters of any kind. Scope mounting on those is a crap shoot to say the least and I think they look better in full battle dress anyway.
(Especially the Finnish Birch stocks w/ pine tar finish)1903's make great sporters, but most, even in fair condition, can be sold for enough to buy a good factory rifle or sportered mauser.
Matt
With a new Stevens rifle running around $300 already drilled and tapped, there is no real thrift or monetary reason to sporterize a virgin milsurp.
Well... yes a new Stevens is cheap, functional and very accurate. However, it has no soul.
There are some BEAUTIFUL examples of well loved rifles in this thread. MOAR PIX!!!!
There are some BEAUTIFUL examples of well loved rifles in this thread. MOAR PIX!!!!
Here's my "bubba job" Damn good shooter; My go to rifle when putting meat in the freezer. FWIW not all bubba's do hack jobs; some of us are pretty good at what we do
M96 6.5x55 Scout
M96 6.5x55 Scout
jimmyraythomason
Member
Here is my shorty. It is a Chinese "Chang Kai Shek" 1935 originally in 8x57 but rebarrelled with a new Latin contract 18" 7x57 barrel. The stock was a cheap Charles Daly reworked using Great Stuff expandable sealer in the voids and glass bedded.Boyd's Bold trigger set at 2lb and topped with a Weaver Buckcommander. It is truly a one-hole -wonder.
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35 Whelen
Member
Suggestion: If you love Masuer sporters as I do, think outside the box. Many commercial manufacturers built rifles on commercial Masuer actions. They're as good as the military versions (sometimes better) and the only thing they lack is a stripper guide. Many of them can be had CHEAP. Interarms made really nice Mauser actions and you can find them under such brand names as J.C. Higgins, Ted Williams, Charles Day, etc.
35W
BrocLuno
Member
It's a hobby. Just like building hot rods. You start with something mass produced and end up with whatever YOU want to build and play with
The idea that these military rifles are scarce is nuts. Yeah, there are few unique or exceptional models that need to be preserved, but the average one does not. They made millions of them for pity sake.
I know folks want to own one of each, or a series of all models of whatever your favorite is/was - but lordy you can't knock a guy for taking a mix-master mil-spec arsenal rebuilt old rifle and having at it? And when Bubba gets done banging and grinding, it'll wander over towards my shop where I'll take a whack at it.
I've never cut a bone stock military rifle (yet), but I don't see the problem as long as it's not a museum piece or something ??
The idea that these military rifles are scarce is nuts. Yeah, there are few unique or exceptional models that need to be preserved, but the average one does not. They made millions of them for pity sake.
I know folks want to own one of each, or a series of all models of whatever your favorite is/was - but lordy you can't knock a guy for taking a mix-master mil-spec arsenal rebuilt old rifle and having at it? And when Bubba gets done banging and grinding, it'll wander over towards my shop where I'll take a whack at it.
I've never cut a bone stock military rifle (yet), but I don't see the problem as long as it's not a museum piece or something ??
This is one my dad built in the 1950s. I had it rebarreled to 270 AI a few years ago because the original shortened and turned down barrel was shot out. It's a nice looking and nice shooting rifle, but the Herters bird's eye maple stock and 26" barrel make it probably heavier than the original it came from.
The woodwork is amateurish, but since it was my dad who did it, I won't be changing it.
BTW, my dad bought this rifle from the NRA in 1945 for $12.
The woodwork is amateurish, but since it was my dad who did it, I won't be changing it.
BTW, my dad bought this rifle from the NRA in 1945 for $12.
Attachments
Larry, from the view you have it at, that wood looks absolutely beautiful buddy. Not amateurish at all. At least you have something that your father made and is special to you. THAT is a value no collector can really feel. And that my friends is one of the MAIN reasons I do what I do to some of these shot out, will never be appreciated or used again, basic, outdated, boring military actions. I turn mine into something that will be passed down to my kids as something that pappy did himself and made a good shooting rifle to be appreciated as a rifle SHOULD be.
Like others have said, sure there are a FEW of these military rifles that may have a pedigree and should not be fooled with for the sake of history, but the VAST majority of these rifles have no REAL intrinsic value as they are and would never be more than a boat anchor. So in conclusion, why NOT make them into something that is not only better shooting, but also much more appealing to the eye. Make them into something that your grandkids can take out in the woods and shoot a deer then say "Thats my Grandpappy's work right there!
I too dislike the sporterizing of classic milsurp rifles. I was in a gunstore today and saw an SMLE No 4 Mk 1 that had been bubba'd all to he||. Forearm shortened, front sight cut off and barrel recrowned, rear sight removed, scope mount drilled and tapped into the top of the receiver. Mad me sick just looking at it. 
dirtyjim:
If more sellers on GB had the "Buy Now" option, the bidding would not be necessary.
My solution was to select that option about two weeks ago for a Spanish FR8 on that website, in order to preserve it and shoot it.
The wood is dinged, but has more character than 1,000 plastic ARs, and the bore is one of the best I've seen in any milsurp. The bolt won't even turn one bit on the Field Gauge.
When the first opportunity arises to hunt feral pigs, it might be the gun.
If more sellers on GB had the "Buy Now" option, the bidding would not be necessary.
My solution was to select that option about two weeks ago for a Spanish FR8 on that website, in order to preserve it and shoot it.
The wood is dinged, but has more character than 1,000 plastic ARs, and the bore is one of the best I've seen in any milsurp. The bolt won't even turn one bit on the Field Gauge.
When the first opportunity arises to hunt feral pigs, it might be the gun.
I have two Milsurps, both Mosins.
My M44 I added a recoil pad that replaces the steel buttplate. I kept the OEM plate, I can restore it back if I wanted to.
My M91/30 I wanted something different. I put it in an ATI stock and added a scope mount. I recently spent all day sanding and filing away at the stock to make it 'unique'. After my little touches were done I painted it OD green (my 3rd "GreenGun"). When the paint dried, it looked a little plain jane to me. I laid a random assortment of leaves across the stock I painted a brown layer over that. When that dried, I again covered it; this time with ferns, and painted flat black over that. I love looking at it now. I made this!
I kept all the pieces from my OEM stock, I can (almost) convert it back. I ruined one of the barrel bands when I took it off.
My reason for changing the gun was this: It is unique. I have seen so many of these exact same gun. Mine is a little different. I like to make my things my own. My laptop has stickers on it. My truck has aftermarket goodies. My dog's collar even has a sharpie design on it. Why do I want something that looks just like yours? I saw a guy on here with a purple bubba'd mosin with yellow 'warning' stickers painted all over it. Not my cup of tea, but hey this is America!
Customized guns are putting your first amendment all over your second.
My M44 I added a recoil pad that replaces the steel buttplate. I kept the OEM plate, I can restore it back if I wanted to.
My M91/30 I wanted something different. I put it in an ATI stock and added a scope mount. I recently spent all day sanding and filing away at the stock to make it 'unique'. After my little touches were done I painted it OD green (my 3rd "GreenGun"). When the paint dried, it looked a little plain jane to me. I laid a random assortment of leaves across the stock I painted a brown layer over that. When that dried, I again covered it; this time with ferns, and painted flat black over that. I love looking at it now. I made this!
I kept all the pieces from my OEM stock, I can (almost) convert it back. I ruined one of the barrel bands when I took it off.
My reason for changing the gun was this: It is unique. I have seen so many of these exact same gun. Mine is a little different. I like to make my things my own. My laptop has stickers on it. My truck has aftermarket goodies. My dog's collar even has a sharpie design on it. Why do I want something that looks just like yours? I saw a guy on here with a purple bubba'd mosin with yellow 'warning' stickers painted all over it. Not my cup of tea, but hey this is America!
Customized guns are putting your first amendment all over your second.
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