Ideas on cause of gun related violence

[bamawrx]

This recent Brazil vote is interesting as it does bring up a burning question in my mind. Why do some countries have such high gun violence verses others with the same amount of firearms or population that have so little violence?

I think that one of the best things we could do help preserve our rights would be to make a real dent in violent crime. Even though it shouldn't matter one way or the other we all know how public opinion goes.

Anyone have some ideas as to why the gun deaths are so high in the U.S. or brazil verses say Canada?

Can someone from Brazil comment on the news coverage to show if its as blood and gore oriented as ours is?

bama

 

[dasmi]

There is no such thing as "gun" violence. There is only violence. Take away the guns, violent people will still be violent. "Gun violence" is a creation of the media.

 

[Atticus]

Culture mainly....and weather. Some cultures accept violence as a means to an end, while others don't. Historically, warm climates nearly always have higher violence rates. My guess is that's simply due to people just "hangin out". Ain't too many folks just hangin on the street corner in Canadian cities in the Winter. I don't know how the July vs. January violent crime stats compare in places like Chicago and Detroit....but I'd guess they are vastly different.

Here's an interesting article.
http://www.benbest.com/lifeext/murder.html

 

[Drewtam]

I don't know how the July vs. January violent crime stats compare in places like Chicago and Detroit....but I'd guess they are vastly different.

You would guess correctly, also affects gang activities and all criminal activities in general. If your willing to work so hard as to go out in the dead of winter 20mph winds and -20 wind chill to do crime, why not get a job at least it would be heated.

 

[mnrivrat]

There is no such thing as "gun" violence. There is only violence. Take away the guns, violent people will still be violent. "Gun violence" is a creation of the media.

+1

Some cultures accept violence as a means to an end, while others don't.

+1 on this one also, but I might add social environment into the discussion as you can see strong differences between and within cities, not just countries.

What makes Washington DC the murder capitol of the US for example ? (or at least a contender if it has fallen from # 1) It's not the availability of firearms as some of the worst/most dangerous area's have the strictest of gun control laws.

Reasons for violent behavior remain the same as they always were. The media plays a huge roll in making it look worse than it is - they seem to think the more sensational or shocking something can be made to look - the more newsworthy it is.

Death rates by violence ? Well, if you believe the bible, then the murder rate at the time shortly following mankinds existance was 25% of the population. You had Adam , Eve, and their two sons - one of which killed the other .

Looks like we've made a lot of progress since.

 

[Too Many Choices!?]

Ummm, Maybe because we are a much less Homogeneous society than they are?

...Combined with a proclivity to shoot first and ask questions later...

 

[bamawrx]

Weather! Thats a new one to me, and very interesting.

 

[Correia]

bamawrx, you're from 'Bama. Check out Ensley during the summer sometime.

 

[TallPine]

Anyone have some ideas as to why the gun deaths are so high in the U.S. or brazil verses say Canada?

I read somewhere - but don't remember the source - that if you compare equivalent communities on both sides of the Medicine Line (like say North Dakota and Saskatchewan) that the murder/shooting rate is less on the US side.

And of course you have to factor out suicides (about half of "gun deaths" IIRC), because many countries with strict gun control and few guns have higher suicide rates than the US.

 

[Standing Wolf]

The root cause of violent crime is criminals.

In some countries, crime doesn't pay; in others, it does. In some cultures and sub-cultures, crime doesn't pay; in others, it does.

 

[Desertdog]

Anyone have some ideas as to why the gun deaths are so high in the U.S. or brazil verses say Canada?

Is this actual deaths by firearms or death per 1000?
It sure makes a difference.

 

[bamawrx]

The stats I saw for the U.S./Canada comparison were dealing with per capita firearm ownership and murder rates etc.. I don't think suicides were included, but you never know. There are a buttload of guns in Canada, but little in the way of unlawful useage.

I know the term "gun related violence" is stupid but I used it lacking a better term to represent unlawful deadly force with a firearm.

Clearly there has to be some actionable cause of the crime problem that can be addressed. The more we reduce crime and the public perception of danger the more we can reduce the public support of or interest in firearm restrictive legislation.

I would guess that a sizeable portion of our unlawful deadly force usage is related to the drug trade.

And yeah yeah I'm from AL, there are pleanty of "hot spots" here, and I have a job that puts me in the belly of the beast regularly. I have noticed that its at least 1pm before the random wanderers get out and about, so I try to make my quick trips in the A.M. if at all possible. Its a real problem when a mass of able bodied young males just roam the streets and hang out. Good thing I keep my .45 ready for some gun violence of my own if need be.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Clearly there has to be some actionable cause of the crime problem that can be addressed.

Trust me on this, eh? The root cause of crime is criminals. They don't need to be addressed. Their mail needs to be readdressed in care of the state department of corrections. It really isn't the least bit complicated.

 

[Langenator]

You know, I sometimes wonder if crime might be reduced if we returned to corporal punishment for at least some types of crime.

Bring back flogging.

 

[Oldtimer]

There are numerous factors that weigh into the statistics of violence. Like one of the other responders, I believe that there is "violence", whether or not a gun is involved. After all, if you're beaten to death with a baseball bat makes you JUST as dead as if you were shot to death!

I don't have the recent article that I read, but it was research done by the United Nations. The "murder capital" of the world is no longer the USA!
That "honor" now belongs to the gun-restrictive country of SCOTLAND! The "violent sexual assault capital" of the world is now the gun-restrictive country of NEW ZEALAND! The report went on to say that tourists were now safer in New York City than they would be in London, England!

While I've always believed in the death sentence as the "ultimate" penalty for violent criminals, Switzerland's courts/penal systems seem to work quite well. They do NOT have a death penalty for ANY crime, and the MAXIMUM amount of prison time for ALL violent crimes is 13 years! Instead of merely locking up the criminals, they actually try to REHABILITATE them before they are released!
The rehab system that they use utilizes such things as educational classes, guidance counsellors and even religious mentoring! Switzerland has had approximately an 86% "successful" rehabilitation program for many years. While they DO have repeat offenders, the maximum penalty is STILL only 13 years!

The penal system in the USA no longer stresses rehabilitation. Prison gangs FLOURISH, and even "control" some of the penal institutions in the USA! A "semi-tough" prisoner, who may only have a few years to serve in prison, has more of a chance of becoming a HARDENED criminal before being released, for his "mentors" may be the "lifers" in prison with nothing to lose. Add to that, many prisoners in the USA have "converted" to the Islamic faith....the FANATICAL sect!

HMM! Maybe we should send all of our violent criminals to Switzerland!

 

[kage genin]

Just had to throw this in here... Now I am not endorsing the Chinese Government by saying this, but violent crime is quite low here in Beijing where I'm stuck for now. Granted, the Chinese culture isn't one to give any degree of respect to criminal violence so there is no "I'm a bad-a$$ 'cause I shot a cop" factor here. Here it would just bring you shame and disgust. But I believe it is more because law enforcement here is empowered to stop repeat offenders... er.. actually there aren't too many repeat offenders. Killers are either jailed for life or executed, economically I might add, by a single shot to the head. My wife told me that the government actually forces the criminal to pay for the bullet used to end his life Chinese prisons aren't known for giving a monkey's arse whether their prisoners are 'comfortable' or not, so understandably the government doesn't spend too many tax Yuan on prisoner amenities like TV, 3 meals a day, exercise rooms, heating, etc.

That being said, although living in Communist China isn't my cup of tea, I think there are a few 'hints' that countries suffering surges of violent crime could learn. I think Standing Wolf has nailed it on the head again, violent crime is caused by criminals. If it's to be stopped, the criminals must be stopped.

PS: there is no ACLU in China, I'd laugh when they tried to start a chapter here and got prosecuted and jailed under anti-subversion laws

 

[El Tejon]

It is the culture that matters. It controls how people act. Read Dr. Sowell's "Black Rednecks & White Liberals".

In Lafayette, Indiana, with gun control laws few and far between, a gun store within every radius of a dead cat, almost everyone here grew up shooting or around guns, the homicide rate is a fraction compared to Chicago next door, with its gun bans.

The difference is the superiority of the culture. Here it is simply not accepted to become a thug. One could end up shot dead by the police or citizenry. In Chicago, the thug lifestyle is accepted and celebrated where "on the streets" or at city hall. As well education and training are considered the keys to upward mobility here whereas in Chicago selling narcotics and thuggery are seen as the way up and something to emulate.

I remain unconvinced regarding the weather. While the South does have high homicide rates in some places, it is not uniform. Cf. Texas' high rate v. Mississippi's low rate--weather is hot and miserable in both places but MS is almost half of TX. One needs to compare the culture of Texas against Mississippi's to understand the distinction in rates.

As well, Yankee cities known for bitterly cold winters, Chicago, New York City, Boston, Detroit, inter alia, all have higher homicide rates than hot spots such as Phoenix. If weather impacts people and "cools the blood" making them more rational and reasonable then Chicago in February should be the model of civility!

 

[dfaugh]

Culture and psychology

I'm not from Brasil, but spent several weeks there a few years back....

First, a MAJOR portion of the population lives on the streets, or in "favelas" which are nothing more than shantytowns...There are far more people living there in poverty than there are here in the U.S. and there are (or at least were) very few programs for any kind of "help"...Some of this is because the government there is relatively poor, and has been fighting economic issues for many years. Obviously, this may have an impact on crime...

Also, Brasil is very much into American culture....about 1/2 of their television programing and movies come from the U.S...So, culturally, they are more similar to the U.S. than one might think...When the country was young they even had "cowboys" and a similar period of settlement that greatly resembles the settlement of our West...

Having said that, they are pretty hard on criminals down there, compared to here (I wouldn't wanna spend a night in one of their jails, for example), especially for gun crimes, but obviously, that's not much of a deterent...Although almost eveyone I met down there had been mugged at one time, although all were at knife point...Imagine if that was the case here!

 

[kage genin]

I believe that being "tough on crime" isn't a real deterrent because of most politican's ideas of what being "tough on crime" is. Evidently, whatever they believe it is isn't enough. I ran across this quote which illustrates my idea of "tough on crime", call me crazy but I like where he's going:

"To show you how radical I am, I want carjackers dead. I want rapists dead. I want burglars dead. I want child molesters dead. I want the bad guys dead. No court case. No parole. No early release. I want 'em dead. Get a gun and when they attack you, shoot 'em."
- Ted Nugent

 

[rudolf]

Have a look at Africa. There the UN and the Brits say guns are the cause for all those deaths in those small wars. Well in Ruanda, they didn't have guns so they killed most of the about 1 million folks with machetes, literally chopping them to death.
Look at Germany when they had their third Reich. First they killed the Jews with guns, but they soon found guns to be inefficient. So they built gas chambers.

Switzerland has more liberal gun laws than Brazil. They have more guns per person than Brazil. They have much less violent crime. It's a cultural aspect.

 

[iapetus]

Poverty generally seems to be linked to high crime rates (probably both a cause and a result).

Most politicians seem to agree, rgardless of ideology (left/right/other), at least as long as they can blame the poverty on their opponents, and claim to be able to solve it themselves

 

[MuzzleBlast]

Poverty by itself is not the cause. Back in the depression, everyone was poor, but most people still left their doors unlocked at night. The problem is cultural. It is the acceptance and even admiration of violence in all forms. Guns just facilitate this because of their power and ease of use.

 

[Cosmoline]

PS: there is no ACLU in China, I'd laugh when they tried to start a chapter here and got prosecuted and jailed under anti-subversion laws

China of all countries NEEDS some serious violence. Violence is not always a bad thing. There's a cadre of old men in that country who need killing VERY badly. Personally, I'll laugh when their heads are on pikes and the crowds are rioting in the streets again. Peace and stability can come at too high a price--China is a perfect example of that. It's a nation run by sadistic, cynical old men. If I had them in a room I'd blow their heads off with my shotgun and drink a toast afterwards. They are evil chicoms. It's sad that they've been able to buy us off with the prospect of access to the Chinese market. The day will come in our Chinese relations when we'll have to decide whether we're just interested in making money, like the Europeans, or whether we still stand against evil. It's always stuck in my craw that we stood by and did nothing when the Chicom scum came to slaughter the voice of liberty and tear this down:

 

[Cosmoline]

Brazilian cops are very tough on crime. That's part of the problem. They've degenerated into a gang of their own, who "disappear" criminals and street kids. Because the rule of law is so weak, the police function primarily to make money for themselves and keep their own turf. It's a culture of lawlessness, even among the cops.