If you were to make a new bolt-action battle rifle...

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Nolo

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What would you use for a basis in design?
I'm talking a new-manufacture old-style wood gun, in the same class as the Enfield, Springfield, Mauser and Mosin rifles.
I'm considering various designs for a bolt-gun because I've just got this strong itch to design a bolty. I was wondering what you guys thoughts on the matter are.
I think I'm going to go with something similar to an original Mauser-type action (like the Swedes) in 7.92 IS.
I'm also considering the Mosin-Nagant design, as, when they are made properly, are actually quite attractive rifles.
The real factor here is the attractiveness of the rifle, because there obviously is no advantage to using a bolt gun in a modern army or otherwise. The rifles wouldn't be particularly cheaper than any surplus bolt-gun, so they lose out there.
So ultimately the reason becomes one of aesthetics and "because I want to", so those are the primary factors that I'm considering.
 
What are we going to do with this rifle? Africa, general purpose, shoot deer, sniper, inter alia?:confused: Does not the purpose impact the design?

For general purpose, I'd want cock on open, compact length, magazine fed, but magazine can be fed with stripper clips or single rounds, magazine cut-off, the iron sights as part of the receiver, and a slick, round bolt handle.

I think I'm going to go with something similar to an original Mauser-type action (like the Swedes) in 7.92 IS.
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What are you calling the original "Mauser-type action"? The '98 or the prior designs? The Swedes were cock on close, while the '98 was cock on open.

because there obviously is no advantage to using a bolt gun in a modern army or otherwise.
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The bolt-action weapon has several advantages but these may be off-set by its disadvantages depending on what you need to do.
 
What are we going to do with this rifle? Africa, general purpose, shoot deer, sniper, inter alia? Does not the purpose impact the design?
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I said battle rifle right in the title.
 
Yeah, but a 'battle rifle' today is usually semi or full automatic. In a world of M16's and AK's you aren't going to find much need for a bolt gun on the frontline. Are you perhaps thinking a long range marksman's rifle?
 
By definition can a bolt-action weapon be a "battle rifle"?

Is not a "battle rifle", by definition, self-loading, e.g. the 2 generation self-loading weapons post-WWII?

If we are going to fight with it, then something like the Steyr Scout with my improvements (proper sling, improved bipod, etc.) would be what is needed. Steyr Scouts did see limited use in the Balkans.
 
What are you calling the original "Mauser-type action"? The '98 or the prior designs? The Swedes were cock on close, while the '98 was cock on open.
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The Swedes, the Argentines, the Chileans, all of the Pre-98 Mausers. That is what I'm calling the "Original Mauser". As I understand it, the '98 was heavily modified from those designs.
The bolt-action weapon has several advantages but these may be off-set by its disadvantages depending on what you need to do.
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Clarification: As a general-issue weapon, it would be a dumb idea to use bolties.
Yeah, but a 'battle rifle' today is usually semi or full automatic. In a world of M16's and AK's you aren't going to find much need for a bolt gun on the frontline. Are you perhaps thinking a long range marksman's rifle?
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I really wish people would read the OP.
By definition can a bolt-action weapon be a "battle rifle"?

Is not a "battle rifle", by definition, self-loading, e.g. the 2 generation self-loading weapons post-WWII?
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That is one definition, one that is usually used when one is comparing them to assault rifles.
However, in many contexts, especially Pre-War, a battle rifle is simply a rifle used in battle, as a general issue weapon, such as the Kar 98k, the Garand or the SMLE.
 
A battle rifle is a rifle in use with a military force for martial purposes, as opposed to rifles that would be used for hunting or target shooting by civilians. A main battle rifle is a battle rifle that is used as a military service rifle. Battle rifles may be bolt-action, semi-automatic, burst fire, or full-automatic. Modern battle rifles are often capable of selective fire.
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This is from Wikipedia. I know many of you may groan that I used it as a source, but, let's face it, it's the quickest and easiest source, and language is all about what something means to the masses anyway.
 
Two great bolt actions for a starter would be the P14 or P17 Enfield or 1909 Mauser. The 96 Mauser actions do not have the strength of the 98 Mauser type actions. There was a time one could have considered a match lock as a battle rifle.
 
Gotta love the people who post without answering the question.:rolleyes:

I'd kind of like a 7.62x51mm Lee Enfield.:) Nice looking, common cartridge, high magazine capacity for a bolt-action, quick action, durable, and aperture sights.
 
I don't know why you would expect a simple answer to a simple question. There are always a bunch of BOZOs that have to complicate everything. There are a lot of good choices...pre 64 Winchester, Sako M85, Remington 700, or as mentioned before the 1909 Mauser. What caliber are you considering?
 
I was considering some of the larger calibers in the .300, .310 and .320 range, like .30-06, 7.62x54R and 7.92x57 IS.
I think I like the .310 calibers the best, but they all seem to be rimmed, which I don't like.
I also love the high BCs that 7.92 gives.
I quickly drew up a 7.62x54 that didn't have the rim, but I'd really like to stick to common calibers.
 
I would go with a modified Lee Enfield. Love the speed and cock on closing ability of those things. Make it 7.52x51mm nato, modify the magazine a little and use modern high tech steels to make the design stronger. Lower the stock weight a little and make the aperture rear sight also windage adjustable and I am set.
 
I'd like to see a strengthened version of the K31, maybe front and rear locking lugs. Plus a 10 round magazine.
I just love the speed of the straight pulls.

ETA: chambered in 30.06
 
THE most modern military standard issue bolt gun is the French MAS36. Several of the improvements over what came before it were it's unparalleled simplicity and strength and outstanding good yet simple sighting system. Don't let the looks fool you these rifles are extremely fast to shoot and are as accurate as any swede or swiss offering.

A MAS 36 in .260 Remington with an AR style freefloat handguard and M4 type stock and an SKS style saftey and a MAS49/56 magazine would be about as modern as a battle rifle could possibly get
 
Sounds you just made an Ishapore.
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I'm thinking of something much closer to the L39A1, L42A1 and Enforcer but with forward mounted low magnification optics.

http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn44-e.htm

I think a shortened, 20" medium weight barreled No4 Enfield, (basically a No5 without the lightening cuts), chambered in 7.62x51 with a tighter chamber than a No2 (use the same chamber and headspace specs as the M1A), with the milled flip up ladder sight(big ghost ring battle sight when folded down), would be about perfect. Use a standard No 4 buttstock instead of that small rubber pad used on the No5. The 12 round No2 magazine would be fine, along with a guide allowing the use of 7.62 NATO (M14/FAL/etc) stripper clips. The ejector needs some improvement though.

It would also need the ability to mount magnified optics. I'd prefer a forward mounted "scout scope" with a variable rate between 1x or 2x to 4x or 6x max. This allows quick snap shots with both eyes open and on target, with a wide field of view.

The Germans deployed some 98K Mausers with forward mounted optics in WWII and it was a potent weapon when used properly. Unfortunately, they deployed most of them as sniper rifles and only a few saw action as DMRs. They finally turned that around and deployed them to regular infantry units, but only near the end of the war.

Then again, I think I'd rather just have a 7.62 M1 Garand or M1A 'Scout' with the forward mount scope.
 
It would be very difficult to make a better battle rifle then a controlled round feed 98 Mauser or 03 Springfield modified too:

1. Use .308 ammo in a shortened action.
2. Use a synthetic stock.
3. Use 20-round M-14, G3 or other proven box magazines.
4. Complete matte black hard-chrome or other weatherproof finish.
5. Model 70 type side safety for speed. (with some method of replacing the wing safety for bolt dissemble without tools.

The 1917 is just too huge & heavy for the caliber involved. As a 30-06, it made a far better .276 British. (or sporterized Belted-Magnum)

rcmodel
 
In a fantasy world? I want a Lee Enfield No.4 MKII chambered in .260 rem.

If you are actually gonna build it, I'd say to use the Mauser 98 action.
 
Regardless of what action I chose, I'd either name it the Fluffy Bunny or the Couldnt Hurt A Fly, just to hear Hillary/Feinstein/whoever rant about it on the floor of the Senate.

Kharn
 
Madsen%20M-47%20truck%20gun.jpg
 
Note that I was not talking about a modern bolt action, but an old school wood gun. No synthetics, no optics.
Bolties came a long way over their, oh, 70 years of dominance, but I just kinda wanted to know what your ideal combination of caliber, action, length and everything else would be.
 
I have toyed with this idea quite a few times myself, it is very complicated and you must have a higher level of desire and dedication than I do.

But if you want to do it, more power to you and good luck, I will buy one!
 
A bolt action battle rifle will get you killed in any modern conflict. Modern conflicts are about firepower not the accuracy of the rifle. You would be overwhelmed by an enemy using modern assualt weapons. Now a bolt action rifle still has it place on a modern battle field, as a sniper rifle. But even that is changing. The US Army's sniper rifle the M24 bolt action rifle is being replaced by the KAC M110 semi-auto rifle.
 
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