(IL) Blagojevich wants total AW Ban in return for tiny pro-gun vote

[Don Gwinn]

[size=huge]Blagojevich calls for state ban on assault weapons[/size]
[size=large]Governor sets condition for signing younger gun ownership bill[/size]


Stories

Lower gun-buying age ripped
March 30, 2004


By Maura Kelly
Associated Press Writer
Published March 30, 2004, 5:25 PM CST

Gov. Rod Blagojevich called for a ban Tuesday on assault weapons in Illinois and said if lawmakers don't send him such a measure he will veto legislation lowering the minimum age to obtain a firearm owner's identification card without parental consent.

The federal ban on manufacturing and importing at least 19 types of common military-style assault weapons expires Sept. 13. It isn't clear if Congress will extend the ban, so Blagojevich wants to deal with the matter on a state level.


"No one needs assault weapons for hunting,'' the governor said. "No one should need an assault weapon for any purpose unless you're in the military fighting a war.''

llinois law currently doesn't address assault weapons. Chicago Mayor Richard Daley has proposed banning assault weapons at least twice in recent years, but his proposals have gone nowhere in the legislature.

"It hasn't had a majority of support,'' said Todd Vandermyde, a lobbyist for the National Rifle Association. "It didn't have a majority of support when the governor was a state representative, and I don't believe it has a majority of support within the legislature today.''

Blagojevich also said Tuesday that he would veto two other bills to ease gun laws if the legislation reaches his desk.

One bill, already approved by the Senate and pending in the House, would allow a self-defense claim to override municipal handgun bans. The other would allow retired police officers and former military police to carry concealed weapons.

Blagojevich supports allowing retired police officers to carry guns but would veto allowing concealed guns for other groups, including former military police.

"Any bill being used as a Trojan Horse for concealed carry laws is a bill that is bad for Illinois,'' the governor said.

Both chambers have passed versions of a bill that would allow people who break local gun laws to avoid penalties if they used the weapon in self-defense. The legislation stems from a case in Wilmette in which a man shot a burglar who had broken into his home for the second time. Wilmette officials charged the homeowner with breaking the city's ban on handguns.

Each chamber also has approved bills that would lower the minimum age to own a gun in Illinois without parental consent from 21 to 18.

Supporters argue that 18-year-olds are old enough to serve in the military and should be trusted to own firearms. Critics say lowering the age for a firearms owner's card without parental consent would increase violence.

Blagojevich said a ban on assault weapons would be an appropriate trade off for lowering the age for hunters who want to buy hunting rifles.

"If you're asking men and women who are 18 years old to go to Iraq and fight in war and carry a gun and put their lives at risk in war, then it's hard to tell them that they can't go out and purchase a hunting rifle without the consent of their parents, which is what the law allows now,'' the governor said.

Copyright © 2004, Chicago Tribune






There's a poll on whether the 18-year-old bill should pass and we're losing. Nuke it!

 

[LAR-15]

This is a sop to Democrat union guys who hunt.

You know the guys that say" Don't need no UZI for bear hunting" or "Don't need an AK-47 for hunting sandhill cranes".

 

[Jeff White]

Not on your life. If he thinks he can trade that for lowering the FOID card age, he's crazy. He's just giving us the the ammunition to shoot down a second term.

Jeff

 

[44Brent]

More goodies

Gov once backed bill letting retired cops carry guns

March 30, 2004

BY LESLIE GRIFFY Sun-Times Springfield Bureau Advertisement

SPRINGFIELD -- As a congressman, Gov. Blagojevich supported a gun measure similar to a General Assembly bill he promised last weekend to veto.

The legislation the governor vowed to veto allows retired police officers and former military police to carry concealed weapons. A Blagojevich spokeswoman said the measure he supported in 1999 was acceptably narrow because it only applied to retired cops.

"This legislation would apply to a much larger number of people," spokeswoman Abby Ottenhoff said about the state measure. "He sees this as an attempt to allow conceal-and-carry in Illinois."

Supporters of the Statehouse proposal say they were blindsided by the governor's disapproval of the bill, which still needs to pass the House before it lands on Blagojevich's desk.

"I find it contrary to my prior understanding of the governor's position on conceal-and-carry for retirees," said Ted Street, Illinois president of the Fraternal Order of Police, a group pushing the legislation.

The proposal Blagojevich voted for in the U.S. House was an amendment to a bill he ultimately voted against. The bill, which failed, had provisions allowing retired cops to carry concealed guns, requiring background checks at gun shows and limiting liability claims against gun sellers. Unlike the current state proposal, the federal measure did not include military police in those allowed to carry concealed weapons.

The legislation passed by the state Senate Friday allows military police officers and cops who served at least 10 years and left on good standing to apply for a five-year permit to carry a concealed weapon.

The bill's sponsor, state Sen. Edward Petka (R-Plainfield), doesn't see a need to respond to the governor's concerns, saying the proposal has more than the 36 votes required to override an attempt by Blagojevich to kill the measure.

"The bill should go straight up. We got 40 votes in the Senate, so we are veto-proof," Petka said.

 

[LAR-15]

So it has a veto proof margin?

GOOD!

Bagohotair can veto it all he wants.

 

[Don Gwinn]

Call me crazy, but indulge me a moment: imagine an Illinois where Blagojevich has attempted to veto pro-gun legislation and has been overridden. Am I nuts, or could that be the slight swing of the pendulum we need to get started on that ten-year road to CCW? It's got to hurt Blagojevich, in any case, which is always worthwhile.

I thought this was particularly telling:

Blagojevich said a ban on assault weapons would be an appropriate trade off for lowering the age for hunters who want to buy hunting rifles.

"If you're asking men and women who are 18 years old to go to Iraq and fight in war and carry a gun and put their lives at risk in war, then it's hard to tell them that they can't go out and purchase a hunting rifle without the consent of their parents, which is what the law allows now,'' the governor said.

Well, that's a lucid and succinct statement of the problem we're facing, Governor. Now all we need is an explanation of why, knowing all that, you refuse to solve the problem when all you'd have to do is SIT DOWN and SHUT UP.

This is like explaining why you won't get out of the way of the firemen by saying: "Well, the problem as I see it is that this building behind me is burning down pretty fast. Clearly something has to be done about that. That's why I think it's only reasonable that you fellows go fetch me a box of Krispy Kremes, after which I might be talked into stepping aside so you can go back to solving the problem."

Idiot must think he's still making Chicago ward deals. In the real world, people don't grin and offer you a cigar when you tell them right out that you're unfairly screwing them and you know it.

 

[Jeff White]

Don,
I think you're making the false assumption that Blagojevich is living in the same state we are. He's not. He won't even move into the governor's mansion. He's rapidly becoming a lame duck. I think we have a chance of overriding his veto.

It seems like Blagojevich and Daley aren't reading the writing on the wall about guns. I don't think we're 10 years out from CCW. I would estimate we're half that. Anti CCW stands are going to figure prominately in the defeat of the anti-gun governors in Missouri and Wisconsin. The sitting governor in Missouri is facing a primary battle next year. Here in Illinois, Daley's handpicked candidate for the US Senate was defeated in the primary. The routine day to day scandals in Chicago are being reported in the downstate papers. Blagojevich is being dragged into some of them. For all the lip service he's been paying to cleaning up corruption, there are plenty of allegations of contracts being let and jobs sold for campaign contributions. It's a meet the new boss, same as the old boss situation. We have Democrat mayors circulating petitions to back off on workmens comp and unemployment insurance costs to try to make Illinois competitive with the surrounding states in generating business. I think people are starting to wake up and realize that a continuation of Chicago politics by either party is the road to ruin for the state.

Jeff

 

[Standing Wolf]

I don't think we're 10 years out from CCW. I would estimate we're half that.

I sincerely hope you're right!

 

[Don Gwinn]

I hope you're right, too. I don't see it. I think it's going to take a minimum amount of time beginning from the time a movement specifically targeted at CCW begins. We haven't got that movement, so I'm saying 10 years from the time it can finally be created, not even ten years from today.

But I'll gladly buy you a giant steak the day I'm wrong, and I'll raise a glass to being wrong.

 

[six 4 sure]

Funny there is no mention to the ban in this article.


REP. BRADLEY SAYS GUN SELF-DEFENSE BILL IS COMMON SENSE

BY MATT ADRIAN
FOR THE SOUTHERN
[Mon Mar 29 2004]

SPRINGFIELD -- Gov. Rod Blagojevich will sign a proposal lowering the age Illinois citizens can apply for a Firearm Owner Identification Card but will veto other measures being considered by the General Assembly.

The proposal, House Bill 3989, would allow 18-year-olds to apply for the permits. Currently, a person must be 21 or have a parent's permission to get a FOID card.

"The age of 18 is consistent with the age people are about to join the Army," said Abby Ottenhoff, a Blagojevich spokeswoman.

Rep. Brandon Phelps, D-Norris City, is sponsoring the legislation that passed the House last week. A similar Senate proposal is making its way through the House.

State police estimate it will cost $5,000 to make changes to printed materials advertising FOID cards.

While Blagojevich supports lowering the FOID card age, he will not sign legislation that would broaden protections for gun owners who shoot home invaders.

The proposal, House Bill 4075, would allow gun owners to use protection of family and home as a defense in cases where they shoot an intruder. The measure arises out of a Wilmette incident in which a homeowner shot an intruder, and has run into problems because of local ordinances banning handgun ownership.

Ottenhoff said the proposal would allow citizens to break local gun laws and open the door to conceal-and-carry permits in Illinois.

"It's a backdoor attempt to loosen gun laws concerning conceal carry," Ottenhoff said. "In urban areas there is a constant struggle against growing gun violence, and the last thing the governor wants to do is put more guns on the street."

Rep. John Bradley, D-Marion, said the proposal would not take away a local government's ability to charge people who violated the law.

"I just think this is a common-sense bill, it's a very limited bill," Bradley said. "It doesn't take away the rights of municipality or local form of government from prosecuting anyone. It is simply affirmative defense for someone that is charged with a violation of a local ordinance in the specific instance that the firearm was used in self-defense."

The governor also will veto legislation that would allow retired police officers and military police officers to carry guns. Blagojevich would support extending the privilege to retired police officers, but the proposal is too broad including retired military police officers as well, Ottenhoff said.

[email protected] 217-789-0865



At least the article proves we have a couple of Dems down here that are trying.

six

 

[DonP]

No trade offs please

Kids grow up but gun bans are forever!

It sounds like a pretty transparent attempt to split the downstate Dem hunter types from the rest of the RKBA folks.

Of course it's also another string from Chicago's 5th floor to run their lives 300 miles away.

"You don't need those nasty evil looking assault weapons. Woudln't you like to go pheasant hunting with your kids, Just sign here and you can all go hunting and we'll just make those evil machine guns go away...but we'll be back soon because that Browning Semi-Auto you have concerns my wife a little."

It would be nice to be able to not only celebrate not only stonewalling all of Daley's latest round of gun control, but to actually over ride a veto on a gun bill and take a first hesitant step toward regaining our rights.

Is that light at the end of the tunnel or another train from Chicago? Nope, it's just Daley on a bicycle yammering as he rides past the wreckage that was Meiggs Field.

 

[Jeff White]

From ISRA's Weekly e-mail:

GOV. BLAGOJEVICH HAS A BAD DAY

Tuesday started out very bad for Governor Rod. The Chicago Tribune opened with an editorial scolding Blago for not living up to his reputation as Congress' most prolific gun grabber. The editorial closed with Blago being ordered to offer to swap his signature on the "18-year old FOID" bill for a ban on most of the firearms in your gun cabinet.

Things didn't get any better for Rod as the day went on. Later that afternoon, Mayor Daley summoned Rod to Chicago and took him to the woodshed. After having his fanny sufficiently tanned, Rod emerged from the woodshed and, under the watchful eye of Ritchie Daley, held a news conference on the evils of firearm ownership. And, you guessed it, Blago closed the news conference with an offer to swap his signature on the "18 year-old FOID" bill for a ban on most of the firearms in your gun cabinet.

As most of you know, all of this took place against the backdrop of huge bipartisan support in the General Assembly for legislation designed to allow people to defend their homes and families from intruders.

Blago's performance Tuesday was a pathetic display of submission to Chicago's mayor and the Tribune's editorial board. As long as Blago continues to be so easily led around by the nose, Illinois citizens will continue to have their concerns for personal safety and security ignored.

Therefore, it's up to you, the law-abiding Illinois citizen, to contact your state representative, and your state senator, and tell him/her that you expect them to vote to override any Blagojevich veto of any bill that would enhance your personal security. When the Blagojevich vetoes do come to pass, we will instruct you further on how to respond.

Don,
I think we've got a CCW effort. It's not as well organized as it could be, but it's been in place for a few years now. If we can organize it and tie it too the anti-Chicago sentiment that's brewing state-wide we may just have a shot in pulling it off. If we can put CCW on the coat tails of the discontent with Chicago, Daley, and the Democrats inability to turn the economy around in the state we might just see CCW come with some significant reform in all areas of state government. The democratic machine misread the last election results. The republicans were thrown out because of what their policies had done to the state. I don't think the electorate wanted to trade republican corruption for the same thing only with the Democrats playing catch up in the patronage game. The downatate legislators from both parties are watching their districts die economically.

Tie it all together and get some real conservatives into the republican party and we'll see big changes.

Jeff

 

[44Brent]

Governor in crossfire on guns
Blagojevich tries to appease both sides of debate

Blagojevich calls for state ban on assault weapons
March 30, 2004

Lower gun-buying age ripped
March 30, 2004

By Rick Pearson, Tribune political reporter. Tribune staff reporters Gary Washburn, Ray Long, Christi Parsons and Molly Parker contributed to this report

Published March 31, 2004

Buffeted for days by growing criticism from Mayor Richard Daley and other Chicago Democrats, Gov. Rod Blagojevich on Tuesday proposed a statewide assault-weapons ban as he tried to placate gun-control advocates furious about his support for a plan to make it easier for older teens to buy rifles and shotguns.

Blagojevich said he would now make passage of an assault-weapons ban a condition for his signature on other legislation pending in Springfield that would reduce the minimum age for obtaining a gun owner's permit without parental consent to 18 from 21. Federal law prohibits handgun purchases by those under 21, but the age reduction would allow more young people to buy rifles and shotguns.

"Passing and enacting both bills would protect the safety of the people of this state and extend the rights of law-abiding hunters and sportsmen," Blagojevich said. "That's an appropriate balance for Illinois."

But the governor's need to strike a political and policy-oriented balance on guns stood in stark contrast to the statements made last weekend by his aides. They said the governor planned to unconditionally sign the age-reduction measure if it reached his desk.

It was Blagojevich's backing for the bill lowering the age for a Firearm Owner's Identification Card for long-gun purchases--based on a belief that if 18-year-olds can carry a gun in a war they should be able to purchase a rifle at home--that led to a firestorm of protest from his political allies.

Chicago Democrats questioned whether Blagojevich, a vocal gun control advocate when he was a congressman from the Northwest Side, was now backing off from that position to woo Downstate voters who have grown increasingly disenchanted with him.

On Tuesday, just hours before Blagojevich announced his revised position, Daley expressed his dismay over the governor's vow to sign the gun permit legislation. The mayor facetiously suggested that under Blagojevich's rationale, 16-year-olds who can drive a car should also be allowed to buy a weapon.

"Are we better off in our homes?" Daley asked. "Are we better off in and around schools, our places of worship, our parks, our malls? I doubt it. I don't believe in the proliferation of more and more guns in society and allowing younger people" to possess them.

Blagojevich insisted that he had decided on making passage of an assault-weapons ban a precondition for signing the age-lowering legislation before Daley leveled his criticism. But the governor was at a loss to explain exactly when he made that decision.

Gun control package in works

Blagojevich also said he was working on a package of gun-control measures based on proposals backed by Daley. But even as he offered that gesture to gun control supporters, the governor opened the door to signing legislation that would allow retired police officers to carry concealed firearms.

He said legislation passed last week by the state Senate to allow the carrying of concealed weapons by former military police and retired civilian police would not lead the state "inexorably toward concealed carry laws" for all of its residents.

But as Blagojevich sought to find politically safe ground on a regionally divisive issue that crosses partisan lines, his attempt to package together an assault-weapons ban with a lower age for long guns appeared to be winning few converts.

Blagojevich did not telegraph to gun-control advocates his decision to support the age-reduction bill before it was approved by the Senate. Similarly, he did not mention to them his plan to link that bill with the assault-weapons ban they have long been seeking before his hastily arranged Tuesday announcement.

Even so, while leading Democrats applauded the call for an assault-weapons ban, particularly in light of so-far failed attempts by Congress to extend the current 10-year-old federal ban past its scheduled Sept. 13 expiration, they continued to oppose the reduced-age requirement.

A spokeswoman for Daley said the mayor "would be happy" to support a ban on assault weapons. At the same time, she said Daley's opposition to the lower age was unchanged.

Lisa Madigan weighs in

Atty. Gen. Lisa Madigan, also a Chicago Democrat, said she supported an assault-weapons ban but questioned the wisdom of making it easier for young people to buy weapons.

"You've got to be 21 to make a wager on a riverboat ... but why would people support a bill that gambles on young people's lives?" said Madigan. "I'm concerned that there are 18-year-olds that are going to school and--conceivably without their parent's knowledge--could get a FOID Card and purchase a gun and bring that to school."

Rep. Brandon Phelps (D-Norris City), who sponsored the age change for FOID Card, rejected Blagojevich's latest strategy.

"I'm not trading my bill for nothing," Phelps said. "I'm not for any gun ban at all. And I'm not letting my bill be held hostage. Hopefully he'll sign my bill."

Lobbyists for gun-owner rights groups also said they would press to pass Phelps' bill on its own.

Blagojevich "campaigns like Charlton Heston Downstate and he campaigns like Mayor Daley upstate," said Todd Vandermyde, an National Rifle Association lobbyist, referring to the actor who once served as the gun group's president. "I think the real question is, there are a lot of Downstate legislators--Democrats--that stuck their neck out for [Blagojevich], sitting there and saying how good he was going to be. ... Well, here he is proposing a major firearms ban across the state of Illinois."

Some Democratic gun-control advocates suggested that the Blagojevich administration's master strategy was that of a "poison pill"--to complicate the gun issue sufficiently enough to prevent either proposal from passing the General Assembly. That would leave the state's gun laws status quo, allow Blagojevich to blame a do-nothing legislature and claim to each side that he tried to champion their cause, they said.

In the 2002 Democratic primary for governor, Blagojevich came under attack from rivals for advocating strong gun control measures during his tenures in Congress and the state legislature, including one proposal to dramatically increase the fee for an FOID card.

To blunt the effect of those charges Downstate, Blagojevich acknowledged at the time that he had not understood the regional differences on the gun control issue and promised to be more sensitive to them. To highlight that, campaign supporters distributed camouflage-colored "Hunters for Blagojevich" bumper stickers.

Support waning

Though he won significant support Downstate in the primary and general election, that backing has eroded amid concerns that his administration has been too Chicago-centered.

Among Downstate residents who were surveyed in a Tribune poll of general election voters last month, only 44 percent gave Blagojevich a favorable job-approval rating while 37 percent disapproved.

Blagojevich has tried to counter the negatives with economic development initiatives, while also catering to the region's gun-rights supporters. In addition to expanding the deer-hunting season for handgun owners, Blagojevich backed the development of the World Shooting Complex, a trap-shooting facility near Sparta that has already become the future host for several national gun competitions and shows.

Blagojevich also has named to his administration a number of Downstate members of the legislature who also were part of the General Assembly's Sportsmen's Caucus that introduced gun-owner rights legislation.

 

[Kingcreek]

I hope Governor No-Rod Blagojevich has alot of bad days. This falls general election is critical to gain some momentum. We, the firearm freedom folks, absolutely must come out in force with money and votes and a common voice. The anti-chicago sentiment is real and stronger than the cook and collar county politicians realize. We need to turn that up a few notches.
Jeff's right- we need REAL conservatives in the republican and Democrat parties, not just this latest breed of wealthy, suburban, fiscal conservative/socially liberal RINO.
My reps are going to tired of hearing from me.

 

[Jeff White]

We aren't going to win on gun rights alone. We have to tie freedom to the economic issue that is going to drive the change and maybe even move the seat of government back to Springfield.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74231

An annual survey by Allied Van Lines said 67.7 percent of its moves involving Montana last year were moves into the state.

The survey ranks Montana third in the nation for people moving in, behind Vermont and Alaska. Montana ranked fifth in last year's survey.

Allied, a major moving company based in the Chicago area, has been conducting the survey for 36 years.

Others ranking high as "inbound" states included Arkansas, Mississippi, Rhode Island and Oregon with a tie score, and Maine.

Illinois came in first among Allied's "outbound" states, with more than 60 percent of its moving families leaving, said Allied. Oklahoma, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Connecticut, South Dakota, and Utah followed.

We're supporting a welfare state that rivals California's, yet we have no good climate or any other reason for people to locate their businesses here.

Illinois is going to have to reform and become a free state or it will die. I wonder how many counties are reporting double digit unemployment? Probably more then Rod would like to admit. Illinois is too big to be a New Jersey and Chicago can't produce enough money to trickle down and support the rest of the state.

If we work hard now and piggyback gun rights on the other issues we can see freedom in the near future. It's there for us in the next couple years, we just need to reach out and take it.

Jeff

 

[Cellar Dweller]

"You've got to be 21 to make a wager on a riverboat ...but why would people support a bill that gambles on young people's lives?"

Irrelevant, but hey, it makes for a good sound bite!

said Madigan. "I'm concerned that there are 18-year-olds that are going to school and--conceivably without their parent's knowledge--could get a FOID Card and purchase a gun and bring that to school."

As oppposed to, say, those under 18 who bring guns to school with or without their parents' knowledge, or those 18 and over who do so WITH their parents' knowledge? Is she saying she's in FAVOR of that?

The unholy trinity of Blago/Daley/Madigan makes this sound so, well, EVIL. Guns in the hands of children, oh my. Yet an 18-year-old can get a FOID with his/her parental blessing now, unless they live in a blissninny Daley-approved household...

 

[Sungun09]

Call Illinois

Gov. Blago is a perfect example of an elitest demonocrat.

Please let your reps know that no AWB is worth anything in trade

Molo Labe

 

[Jeff Thomas]

Whenever I hear the name Daley, I feel as though I'm in a time warp. Good luck up there. Tough sledding.

Regards from TX

 

[PATH]

Never trust a gun grabber! He may try to change his spots but he'll always be a gun grabber!