I'm About To Give Up

[Virginian]

Quit worry about where the bullet is going. Just concentrate on a smooth squeeze all the way through. Don't shoot anything but mild loads until your groups get good, and then start stoking the fire.
If you are determined to do this shooting all double action, it is going to take a while. I don't know anybody else who has ever done that.

 

[ir3e971]

First off, I am by no means an expert shot. But here is what works for me.

First - Buy some 4x6 index cards at Walmart or Staples, and a black sharpie. Make a 1 inch dot in the center of several cards. (tada! cheap target)

Next - Staple 4 of these cheap targets to backboard at range, and only send it out to about 5 to 7 yards.

Now - Fire slowly DA, while concentrating on holding the pistol consistently and steadily. Firing slowly and only use a one or two cylinders per target. This should help:

1 Figure out what is working and what isn't with your grip

2 Develops familiarity with the required muscle movements

3 Limits frustration so you can concentrate on what you are doing. Your groups will be tighter (cuz its closer). I think many times when learning a new gun, we try to put the target to far out. Doing this just adds variables to what may be going wrong.

Once you begin to tighten groups when the target is close, speed up your rate of fire a bit until you are feeling pretty good about how you are doing.

After you are happy with your groups and speed at a close range, you can start to put the target out further and refine your skills.

I had to do this when learning to shoot decently with my SW 642.

Hope that helps. Revolver shooting is very rewarding.

 

[TEDDY]

revolver

get rid of the hot loads.your trying to fly before you have feathers.
go single action only thats why I recomend bullseye shooting you learn to shoot accurately then you can go furture.DA is not easy I can shot it and with heavy triggers but I learned how.

 

[9mmepiphany]

If you are determined to do this shooting all double action, it is going to take a while. I don't know anybody else who has ever done that.

you do now...my first DA revolver (.38 Colt Diamondback) had some "homesmithing" on it when i bought it. the DA was smooth, but the SA was gone...must be why i could have afforded it

learning to shoot DA will make you a better SA shooter, it doesn't work the other way. the body mechanics DA trigger stroke are the same as those of the SA...just over a longer travel. you just continue to apply pressure to the trigger until you get the surprise break

 

[BCRider]

It doesn't help that you're trying to do this with strong loads and a short barrel. I second the idea of switching to .38Spl for the time being and learn your trigger pull. Also with a revolver you need a LOT more finger on the trigger than for a semi. On my own M19 I find I've got the right side of the trigger sitting right in the fold of the first joint and that my finger tip actually touches or just about touches my right hand thumb at the full pull.

Set up and do a bunch of dry firing. Adjust your grip and amount of trigger finger until you can pull the DA smoothly in a slow but not super slow manner and not see the sight picture shift around or have to compensate for it.

Oddly enough when I was first starting I tried out a revolver soon after just starting to shoot semi. Perhaps it's because I didn't have any strongly ingrained habits due to being quite new but the revolver just seemed to curl into my grip naturally and I was shooting that Model 19 better even with the second cylinder's worth of shots than I'd managed with any of the semis I'd shot up to that time. The key seems to be that they are widely different grip and trigger styles though. So work on that dry firing sight picture.

And frankly for a snubby I don't think you're doing all that badly for all that you complain. I've shot a 686 with a 2.5 inch barrel and found that it was harder to get good groups than with my own 6" model 19. But with some grip and trigger finger work and maybe a spring kit (Wolff makes a superb product) I think you'll sharpen it up nicely to match your Xd groups.

And as a last ditch suggestion check the muzzle crown for signs of damage or wear. If it was cleaned with the wrong kit during its lifetime it may have scratched or worn the last bit of the bore. I understand that such damage can lead to poor consistency.

 

[bigeye]

If you have a bore mounted laser sight in device, try emptying your weapon, check twice, put in the bore mounted laser, turn it on, aim at your target, and dry fire. Watching the little red dot dance all over the target will tell you where the problem is. When you can do this without the dance, go back to regular ammo. Cheap trick, but it works.

 

[Jeff82]

I don't know anybody else who has ever done that.

All police officers did it all the time back before semi-autos. I'm one of them.

 

[9mmepiphany]

^^^
yeah...there wasn't a lot of thumb cocking in the academy

 

[Elm Creek Smith]

If you are determined to do this shooting all double action, it is going to take a while. I don't know anybody else who has ever done that.

That's the only way I shoot my defensive revolvers. In fact, Massad Ayoob suggests converting revolvers to double action only (DAO) if they are to be used for defensive work. Many police departments had the single action capability of issue revolvers disabled. (NYPD, Miami-Dade PD, LAPD.) It can prevent allegations from unscrupulous attorneys (DAs or ambulance chasers) that someone cocked their revolver thus creating the dreaded "hair trigger effect."

ECS

 

[OldZoomie]

If your 19 has the "target" ribbed trigger vs. the "combat" smooth trigger that may also be part of the problem. The ribbed trigger is not conducive to good DA shooting, whereas the smooth one is.
A drill I learned was to revolve the cylinder using DA pull, but not dropping the hammer.It takes practice but it can be done; when you can do this comfortably, put a dime on the front sight and do it more. When the dime stays there, follow through and allow the hammer to drop; you'll be rewarded with a dime that "hops" on your front sight.
After your muscles learn this, go to the range and get up close, you will notice the difference in your ability. Practice practice practice.

 

[9mmepiphany]

The ribbed trigger is not conducive to good DA shooting, whereas the smooth one is

that's what they used to teach when i started competitive shooting too, however Jerry Mikulek recommends the ribbed/serrated trigger for better trigger control...less sliding on the trigger

 

[Jubjub]

Shooting some single action will at least give you some confidence in the gun's ability. That's my M66, on the day I took her home with those ugly Hogue grips it came with, the target shot single action at 15 yards. When I got home from shooting, I found that the rear sight was loose, so subsequent groups have become much rounder.

 

[TimM]

Another thing that I learned a long time ago is that shooting frequently for short periods of time helps me shoot more accurately than shooting infrequently for long periods of time. The more frustrated I get the worse I shoot. If you practice (correctly) with the 19 just a dozen rounds or so each time you shoot your auto I would bet that your accuracy will improve.

 

[GRIZ22]

The art of firing a handgun is found in shooting a double action revolver well.
It's the difference between fast food and gourmet. After you can shoot your DA revolver well, you'll probably be a much better shot with anything than most people you know.

Amen! One of the reasons LE agencies have gone over to Glock big time is the action is light (compared to a DA revolver), safe, and they only have to teach one trigger pull.

In addition to the previous posts, you may want to consider investing in a trigger/action job.

This is not required at all. I was a LE firearms instructor for nearly 30 years and over that time taught at least 1000 people how to shoot with a DA revolver. They all manged to qualify and some became extremely good shooters. None, zero, zilch of them had an action job. If the gun is operating to factory specs you do not need an action job. The only gun I own with an action job are a S&W 19 that I bought used. When I had a 1911 rebuild and the pistolsmith asked me how I wanted the trigger I told him 4-5 lbs as I carry the gun. I can shoot 2-3" groups DA with my 2 1/2" M66 with magnums from a standing position at 25 yards and it's as stock as stink.

Action jobs, too light triggers, backing off the strain screw, laser sights, ribbed vs smooth triggers and a bunch of other stuff are things people use as crutches to poor gun handling skills.

The best way to improve your DA revolver skills are dry fire and ball and dummy as outlined by the first paragraph in post 22 but load live ammo and empty brass. this insures no peeking (sorry Stainz I still don't agree with getting an action job)

 

[ArchAngelCD]

warman,
I don't think anyone mentioned this but it's worth a look. Make sure there isn't any lead or copper fouling in your barrel or around the forcing cone. If there is you may actually be improving but not seeing the results because of the fouling. (which would cause your shots to be all over the paper)

Hang in there, you will get better without a doubt. The first time I fired a J frame revolver I didn't even hit the paper from 10 yards out. At least you are on the paper!! LOL

 

[ironvic]

I know my 686 Plus is uber-accurate, even with the 2 1/2" barrel. At times, though I get lousy accuracy at the range. That's when I know it's time to dry fire the gun and practice trigger control double action as I concentrate on keeping the sight from wandering. One of the great keys to good accuracy is to mind the front sight. using good trigger control and front sight discipline, I always find my accuracy improves.

I think that's one of the fallacies of the revolver. Many shooters consider them to be accurate under all conditions and perfect for the beginner. In actuality, though, the revolver takes time to master and it always comes down to minding the basics.

 

[JCisHe]

I had a smith 64 for awhile and at first I was shooting it like I do my G17. I was sort of "resting" and slowly pulling the tripper until it popped and then checking to see where it hit. Sometimes it was center or slightly low/left (normal) and then every once in awhile I would get a flyer.

I found out the problem wasn't the long double action but my relaxed grip. In order to stop the flyer I had to grip firmly, keep my forearms strong, and lock my wrist because the long double action, though smooth, made the whole rest of the pull suspect if I wasn't locked into place like a vice.

After I managed to add "strength" to my grip, wrist, and forearms my shooting greatly improved. As it turns out I was muscling my way through the long pull by using my grip which change my wrist position and was causing the flyers.

This lesson helped me shoot my other pistols as well. It's not a matter of holding it sooo tight I'm shaking but certainly a "solid" grip. I imagine my arm is locked like a vice locks in a piece of steel and the only moving part is my finger.

I hope that helps.

 

[warman]

Well after all of my complaining, it was the sights. I took it out and adjusted the sights and like magic, I'm shooting decent patterns and where I'm actually aiming.
Still have to work on my DA - hitting high but now at least everything seems to be in groups.
Thanks again all for feedback!

 

[ShakyJake]

Hi warman,
Great!!! Glad you did not give up on the Revo of yourself. Sometimes when the tv doesn't work first check to see if it's plugged in.
TaKe CaRe
Ted

 

[friscolatchi]

I can attest that dry firing DA improves accuracy. Keep the front sight steady through the trigger pull. Practice, Practice, Practice. This will save mucho $$ in ammo.

I'm having the same problem as you, only with a 629 6.5" at 25 to 50 yards using 240 gr magnums. Specials are no problem. I can tell you that dry firing has helped. Also with the full mag loads, increase your time between shots until your hands become steadier and stronger. If you're shooting for speed, then stick to the Specials for now. I'm new to this game, but this is what is working for me so far. When I get frustrated, I shoot a few cylinders of Specials, then I feel better. My confidence and Magnum Aim then improves. IMHO, Specials (+P or otherwise) should be your SD load until you are more confident with the Magnums. Most of all, enjoy the process and don't get frustrated.

 

[MovedWest]

I had the same problem after taking some time off of pistol shooting to work on my rifle skills. I got it worked out with lots of dry firing (most centerfire pistols don't have a problem with it these days).

Clear your pistol several times, move all your ammo out of sight, clear the pistol again, and then begin your practice. Acquire your site picture, focus on your breathing, and squeeze your trigger slowly while keeping your sight picture as steady as possible.

Do this for 20-30 minutes an evening for a week or two and your groups will soon come together. If you have a fish tank you can practice on moving targets to avoid boredom.

The boom and recoil of a big caliber can wreck your concentration, but you need to keep your focus on your sights and breathing to be consistent. Make sure your grip doesn't tighten or loosen when you begin to squeeze the trigger. If you concentrate on this and learn to not anticipate the firing of the round you will see improvements.

Good luck.

-MW

 

[Confederate]

The revolver isn't a semi-auto and can't be treated as one. It's a wonderful device all things considered. Hunters milk the best accuracy out of it by cocking it first and can take game out to 100 yards. The double action is mostly for defense, when accuracy doesn't tend to be a major factor. With non-magnum shots, it can still be extraordinarily accurate, but spraying magnums is difficult for anyone.

Revolvers point instinctively well and those that have more weight (especially in underlug barrels) tend to do very well indeed when double action firing. You can get good at double action firing, but it can be pretty hard on the K-frame Smiths. I'd recommend a 686 or a Ruger GP-100.

I've mentioned this in other posts, but you also might want to check your chambers by dropping a 125gr JHP bullet into each one. If it falls through and goes plunk!, your throats may be slightly oversized. Wadcutters and other lead bullets tend to be just a tad larger and give slightly better accuracy, but keep in mind that the .357 mag is a powerful round and isn't really conducive to being rapid-shot double action target shooting.

It's sort of like shooting a .44 magnum. A Smith 629 or Ruger Redhawk even in single action mode isn't going to be a tack driver with factory powerhouse loads. They'll bag game at respectable distances, but on paper they don't tend to be very impressive. The .357 125gr JHP has been described as sort of the "perfect storm" of handgun loads. No one really knows why it works as well as it does and even fewer can adequately mitigate the blast and fireball. It's just part of the deal.

When shooting with revolvers, powerhouse loads are just not going to be something you can drop into an X-ring without a lot of practice. It's going to be hard on you and the gun. Just accept it as part of what a revolver is, and what it isn't is a semi-auto. I've seen people dump semi-auto rounds into tight groups in a target, but at 75-100 yards they're just not going to generally do as well as a revolver. The guns are just different.

You can buy a revolver and it will last you a lifetime if it's strong and the loads made for it. The springs won't need replacing and you'll be able to give it to one of your kids. An auto, on the other hand, occasionally needs to have springs changed. Extractor springs, extractors, magazine springs, recoil springs, and so forth. Some change them every 5,000 rounds and it's the price they pay for the technology. You get a Ruger Security-Six, GP-100, 686 or other good revolver and you can check it out in two minutes. Once you check the B/C gap, timing, headspace, cylinder tightness and so forth, you dial it in for your preferred load, clean it, stuff it in a zippered case and forget about it. The more you use it, the nicer it gets.

That's the beauty of revolvers. They're elegant, dependable and they last. If you get a semi-auto, you really need to get it to a range before you can depend on it. If it's used, you probably want to check out all the springs, examine the parts and so forth.

Again, I think you're expecting the revolver to perform like an auto and it just won't do it. It doesn't mean it's bad, it's just different. The 19 is a great gun and isn't intended for a steady diet of full magnum loads. It will pack one hell of a punch, but you can't throw them like you do with a 9mm or .45.