IMMEDIATE CALIFORNIA SHALL-ISSUE!!! Read this, guys!

[Pendragon]

My CCW is good in Los Angeles just the same as it is here in Kern County. LA County and/or City doesn't have to like my CCW, but they have to honor it.

True Fact Honorable Rojo.

Not sure if you were rebounding off my post, but I was just making the point that it looks like with this idea, a Sheriff can give CCW to anyone from any county.

As it is now, an ordinary LA citizen cannot go to Yuba County and get a CCW from Kathy Black. If you did setup a "residence" there and get the CCW, it would be invalid so many (I forget - 30, 60 or 90) days after LA was once again your residence. Now perhaps you could keep up the phony residence but for most ordinary people, if you are from LA, living in LA and get stopped with a CCW permit from another county, its worthless if they can prove you don't live in that county.

I have even seen on some Sheriff websites (Amador county I think) that they may pay you a visit at your "residence" and do a few other things so some enterprising Sacramentan does not get all upity and think they can get an Amador county CCW.

So - the deputy status seems to then break the county line barriers to issuance that currently exist. Our LA citizen could be deputized by a rural Sheriff and be given a CCW from a county he does not reside it. My question is - how does it work if he then has an encounter with LAs finest? They look at his permit from Yuba or Sutter county and they guys car is registered in LA - does he then flash a deputy "badge" ?

Part of the program may be that you may be the test case

 

[cryptoguru]

LevelIII reserve ccw..how it may look in another county?

my retired ATF friend tells me some LEOs drivers licenses and license plates are registered with DMV so when they run your plate it comes up as peace officer.

Not sure if it applies to the same for reserves or appointment peace officers? Appointed officer can mean honorary officer...thus have a badge that says that with the CCW? or a regular badge/dept. ID.

 

[El Rojo]

I see your point now Pendragon. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[artherd]

What if Citizen LA gets stopped with his "deputy CCW"? He is in LA with a rural county CCW - normally not valid - how does he show his deputy status?

Say WHAT? The CCW is valid everywhere, by any interpretation of all CA laws I have ever read. I could carry in downtown LA or SF.

As for the cop not beliving I'm a Level III deputy, I'll go over the application procedure I went through with him. I will ask him to call 'my' department, offer the secret handshake, etc. Plenty of ways this can be done.

If all else absolutely fails, I will of course comply with the officer on the scene, and then sue his department for false-arrest.

I may settle out of court in exchange for lifetime CCW and NFA weapons permits

 

[gunsmith]

I'm drooling Jim

salivating...

I carry at work as an armed security guard,all the convicts I chase away from tourist
have sworn revenge. There aint much they could do while I am at work,but off duty I am an easy target...(well sort of)
I can easily prove need and training,I carry a gun on my job with no problem,but just because I live in "the city by the bay" my life has to be in danger

Any help I can provide let me know!

How about having some rich gunny or (corporation of) buy a small town,and become cheif of police as part of the deal?

 

[Dex Sinister]

So - the deputy status seems to then break the county line barriers to issuance that currently exist. Our LA citizen could be deputized by a rural Sheriff and be given a CCW from a county he does not reside it. My question is - how does it work if he then has an encounter with LAs finest? They look at his permit from Yuba or Sutter county and they guys car is registered in LA - does he then flash a deputy "badge" ?

Well, one should note IIFC that is does not say "primary residence" in PC 12050, merely "residence." In theory, if you have a residence in Butte County as well as in LA county, there's nothing to stop you from having a CCW issued by Sheriff Reniff there.


Dex }:>=-

 

[Dex Sinister]

The problem could get worse with "quasi-cop training" through POST, so we'll have to manage that...)

Another annoyance may be additional costs for background checks for the POST training.

Butte College here (Butte County) does a POST academy, and while you can sign up for just the 2-3 courses to do the Level III, they wanted a full $110 background check before they'd let anyone near the pistol range.

Then you'd have to turn around and pay for it again with the initial CCW app.

Butte County does "shall issue" CCW's, but I had checked out the POST courses because I took a couple of AminJustice courses on the campus and thought they sounded interesting.

But I wasn't about to pay for a totally silly background check just to shoot on their sacred range. I suppose it must be their way of excluding non-POST-academy students from taking the courses.

Dex }:>=-

 

[harpethriver]

Don't wanna burst any bubbles here but as a 20+ year resident of Ventura Cty. I learned to never underestimate the power of the liberal media and the State Legislature(they're pretty much one and the same). If your idea proves viable and takes off how fast do you think the Legislature will act to stop it and how long do you think it will take the media to start drumming up support for some sort of ballot initiative to make it illegal? Please don't let this be construed as pessimism-by all means go for it with all you've got. Just be prepared to fight on 2 other levels as well-legislative and p.r. Dreams of today are tomorrows reality!! Godspeed!!

 

[Jim March]

OK, couple o' things.

----------------

2nd Residency CCW:

The CCW laws themselves (PC12050-54) do NOT define residency. The only California statutes that do define it are the tax codes, and that makes clear that you can live in multiple places within the state at once.

So lots of people set up a second address somewhere at a friend/relative's house out in the boonies, switch a utility bill to their name, ditto their DMV address, and score CCW out there. This is legal. Many rural sheriffs don't LIKE it, and will actively try and identify such cases - but even then, all they can do is yank the permit. While you've got the permit, you're legal to carry in all 58 counties.

That's a different gameplan than what we're considering in this thread.

-----------------

We would NOT come up on DMV records as "peace officers", at least not if my current theory about PC12050 is correct (the "magic OR"). We would get a PAPER statement from Kern or whatever county identifying us as an "auxilliary reserve deputy level 4" or somedamnthing - we would NOT be POST-certified peace officers. This "deputy certificate" would be handed to a cop as needed with the CCW permit. (Since California does NOT require declaration of CCW status in a traffic stop, I would advise not routinely handing over this paperwork with driver's license/registration. Use it only when necessary, as some cops are going to get really brain-bent over this .)

The back of the permit should have restrictions to the effect of "cannot carry a badge, has no out-of-county police powers whatsoever, cannot effect citizen's arrest unless permitholder or nearby relatives/companions are directly criminally assaulted". Yes, that's a more restrictive standard on "citizen's arrest" functions than normal but, I think it's necessary to prevent "strange ranger" problems. We're going to have a tough enough PR battle as is...just ONE "strange ranger" would screw us good and these HAVE been encountered in shall-issue states. (Granted, not enough to declare shall-issue a bad idea or anything, but this Jerry-rigged mess we're brewing up just cannot survive even ONE.)

----------------------

I took the "legal research post" from previous, cleaned it up, and ran it past four lawyers last night. Still awaiting input. The cleaned-up version is attached...if anybody knows any MORE lawyers...?

 

[Jim March]

As to the legislature: they can't force in a new bill without a 2/3rds vote, as the deadline has run past for new legislation. The GOP will laugh their butts off.

So we've got more than a year to play with if we move fast.

Second, any legislation "fixing" this will have to get past an Arnold veto. Will he? Well, we've been wondering where he sits on guns....

 

[thefitzvh]

I have a residence in Kern, but I spend very little time there... maybe 3 months out of the year. I was thinking about trying out there, but I'm not so sure if that's a great idea.

James

 

[cryptoguru]

Jim, good point about the "strange ranger" issue, takes only idiot to ruin it for the rest.

 

[cryptoguru]

I think it would hold up in court if the person is actually appointed peace officer in writing, didn't get the training so he doesn't have the powers but has gotten CCW through that. Everything is case law too...do a search and see if anyone who's been deputized/appointed abused their powers/privs??

My opinion, it maybe a hard sell to a rural sheriff to issue to out of town/out of county. It might cause him to not be re-elected if locals decide what he does is not good to cover the county's budget espcially if someone runs against him who has a better way to generate revenue to cover the budget.

 

[Pendragon]

Yes - very hard sell.

It takes SERIOUS numbers to bolster even a small budget and the more you get on there, the greater the chances we will meet "Stranger Ranger".

We need frickin Zig Ziglar to sell this mess.

 

[cryptoguru]

There are many ways we can try to obtain CCW at low cost for the masses at the same time keep Stranger Ranger away.

I was thinking....what does it take to form your own city town in Cali?

I don't think it takes much...Whynot just about 500 or more of us California Highroaders get together and find someone who owns a few hundred acres, put money in the pot and form our own town. You all remember awhile back on the news that a whole town was up for auction on ebay??

We can find a retired or current LEO with atleast 2 years experience to run our own Police department and start issuing CCWS!! Hell he can even appoint us as peace officers if he wanted and have an academy....but that's not what we're after though. We'll go establish residency up there and etc. It would kind of neat to call it Highroad, CA

Besides all residency can be is some dude owns a farm/ranch and lets us use it as our mailing address/primary residence. (I.E. I work in Mojave, CA but officially live in San Francisco)

Any ideas? Comments on my idea?I was thinking....what does it take to form your own city town in Cali?

 

[turtle]

I ran across this awhile back:

"Buy a Town" For the Serious Historical Buff!
http://www.catheysvalley.com/listings/l0027.html

 

[cryptoguru]

Is that still for sale? If so....I might be asking who wants to be my police chief?....soon.

crypto.

 

[cryptoguru]

Allright $449,000.00. Not bad.....there must be some bigger towns for sale out there with more acerage? 60-200 or more acres? I was driving down along 58 in Bakersfield last month, saw a sign for something like 115 acres for $150,000.000.

I was thinking more along a few hundred acres. Highroaders all contribute and get a X size parcel, high roaders would form an official town....highroaders who actually want a house have to be responsible for paying for linkups on the right of way to their property line.

Public Services (fire/police) would be a volunteer protection district paid for by Highroaders Property Owner Assocation fees mandated in the City Charter..CCW Shall issue town by owners.....not a bad idea? What you guys think?

It sure beats trying to convince a rural town sheriff....besides he'll want more money every time re-election comes around.
Crypto.

 

[El Rojo]

So what is to keep our town sheriff from not wanting big campaign dollars to keep his cushy job as town sheriff come re-election time? Second, you don't want this new town forming in rurual Kern County, people would move there just to be able to get a permit from the friendly KC sheriff. You would have to have this haven closer to the big cities to give it that appeal. Otherwise, why not just move anyway and forget about the work involved in setting up a town. Anyone in rural Kern County can just about get a permit. Sorry to rain on your parade, but people aren't going to move to an area in occupied territory just to get a permit or help others get a permit. If that were the case, they would just pack up and move out of state and get an AR-15 while they were at it.

Hit up Mack Whimbish. The worst he can say is no.

 

[cryptoguru]

I was giving an example with the bakersfield site...I am not interested in setting up my own town in a county that already has CCW issuance.

What is it that would keep the chief of our town in-line, he's appointed by the mayor and the mayors elected. The shall-issue and police chief appointment by mayor and confirmed by city council would be in the city charter. All the appointed chief is to do is to administer the process to residents and he would be the only one that gets a small compensation every other sworn guy is a trained volunteer firefighter/police officer.

The link another member posted earlier is for Mariposa County while I am proposing is setting out Highroaderville in Northern Calif somewhere near san francisco...maybe near Lodi, CA

Crypto.

 

[M1911Owner]

I think there's some kind of state "Local Agency Formation" board that has to approve forming a new city. I don't know any details, I just recall some discussion of it when the City of Windsor was being created. I suspect they would try to block this sort of thing.

 

[cryptoguru]

Well I was just giving you guys some ideas, I'm going to research it more. Before I became a mechanical engineer, I was a civil engineer working for a consulting firm on public policy and urban planning.

And if highroaderville bought that $499,999.00 town that's in Mariposa County, we could rename it and bypass forming a town issue possibly.

 

[The_Antibubba]

Free California!

OK, this is the point where someone states that we need to secede from California and form a new state.

Any ideas, Jim?

 

[gunsmith]

Buying a town?

I think that would work better then incorporating a new one.
assembling a "highroad" police force...Hmmmmm.
maybe we need
wildpolicecheiffromalsakamaybe?

 

[jimpeel]

Jim March

One problem - the sheriffs will be worried about legal liability in case one of us guys screw up. I may need a legal opinion on the subject to show 'em first.

Check out the CA Government Code Section 820 or so. That is where the state claims immunity for government employees for wrongs committed pursuant to their lawful actions by others.

821.2. A public employee is not liable for an injury caused by his issuance, denial, suspension or revocation of, or by his failure or refusal to issue, deny, suspend or revoke, any permit, license, certificate, approval, order, or similar authorization where he is authorized by enactment to determine whether or not such authorization should be issued, denied, suspended or revoked.