Incident at a "No Services" rest area

[leprechaun50]

Last Monday I was returning to Minnesota from a trip to Texas to pick up two rescue dogs. In Oklahoma,the dogs needed a pit stop so I pulled in to a "No Services" rest area. Long drive in and can't see the area from the road. I noticed a pickup with two guys in it pulled in and parked a fair ways behind me. They just sat and watched me. I had a feeling they weren't there to strech their legs, but just coming out of Texas where my permit from Minnesota is not honored my pistol was locked in the trunk. I slipped my holster on in the car, then got out and took my pistol out of the locked case in the trunk, out of their line of sight. As I holstered my pistol I turned sideways toward them so they could plainly see what I was doing.

I wasn't looking to be confrontational, but as this was out in the middle of nowhere, my thought (right or wrong) was that I was better off letting them know in a way that made no direct threat to them, that I was armed and was in a state of readiness. If they had no bad intentions they would have gotten out and stretched their legs, taken a leak, before I holstered my pistol or anything but sit and stare at my car. Also if they had no bad intentions my holstering my weapon should have been of no concern to them, as I made no moves, or looked directly at them to give them any percieved threat. As soon as they saw this they drove past me and parked on the shoulder halfway down the exit road.

I walked the dogs, keeping them in site the whole time. They never exited the pickup the whole time, they just kept watching me. After I got the dogs back in the car and drove past them they followed me down the highway for several miles before they turned off.

I think that if I hadn't made a point of letting them know that I was armed, things would have gone south for me.

 

[ilbob]

my guess is you overreacted.

they were probably waiting for you to leave so they could take a leak without you watching them.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Two dudes pull in a public rest area and you strapped up in a conspicuous manner to show 'em you mean business....Yeah, I'd say you overreacted.

 

[Liberty1776]

Their actions didn't fit in the category of "generally normal". Your actions were prudent and correct, and everything turned out fine.

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

Just so you know, you didn't need to lock your pistol in the trunk in Texas. You don't need to have a valid CHL to have a loaded firearm in your vehicle in Texas.

Unless you drove down here to rescue some pugs, you were probably well off with just the dogs. Don't know too many folks that would come at someone who had two dogs with him.

 

[Centurian22]

Situational Awareness: you're doing it right. No harm, no foul, everyone goes home alive, what more could you ask for. Well done. I'm very surprised to see the "you over-reacted" comments. I would rather over-react (which I Don't think you did) than chance having an issue.

 

[Hoppes Love Potion]

I would say "reacted properly". You had a sense of something not being right and took steps to protect yourself if they chose to attack. Makes perfect sense.

 

[Potatohead]

Youre still alive so you done good. They may have just been rolling a doobie. Better safe than sorry.

 

[bikerdoc]

You did what I would have done.
Trusted you situational awareness and acted accordingly.

 

[Hometeached1]

Personally I would not have "flashed" them, just because I don't want them knowing what type of handgun/where I carry it. Other than that, I would have done every thing you did, but I was not there so take my advise with a grain of salt.

 

[scaatylobo]

"Menacing" arrest

I see your actions as the possible cause of having those 2 lovers [ ? ] call the police as they felt threatened.

OR one or BOTH of them were officers on a stake out and your busted for flashing/menacing with a loaded firearm.

I was LEO and I always err on the side of NOT GETTING ARRESTED = if possible.

Many here have NO idea what the start and outcome of an arrest [even if you were correct in your actions ] will entail.

Cuffed,Press camers as its a GUN arrest,booked in and your dogs AND car towed.

Night in a jail,then before a judge/justice of the peace,BAIL [ cash,how much you got on you ? ].

Find transport home,then go back for each hearing and pre-trial meet.

See this as a possible nightmare = I sure do.

 

[CA Raider]

"Situational Awareness: you're doing it right. No harm, no foul, everyone goes home alive"

I buy into your original concern and the quote from a reader above. The indicator that something was wrong is that they followed you after you left the rest area. if they wanted their own privacy, they could have let you leave and waited until everything was quiet - before doing whatever they were doing. I've got no problem with what you did ... trusting your gut instinct in a remote area is a good idea.

they could have been smugglers. maybe bringing something up from Texas themselves, and thought that you were onto them. so they were just checking you out. when you kept going - they gave up. maybe a dozen other reasons.

no harm ...no foul. stay in one piece.

CA R

 

[leprechaun50]

Scaatylobo, Why should lawfully retrieving my pistol from the trunk and placing it in my holster get me arrested? I am legal to carry in Oklahoma, and at no time did I look directly at, or point my pistol at them. I removed it from its case and holstered it. I don't think that qualifies as brandishing, or flashing.

 

[Kayaker 1960]

overreacting?

I don't think you overreacted. I had a somewhat similar experience 2 years ago.
My wife and I were with another married couple returning from a kayaking trip to the Merced river near Yosemite. We stopped to have lunch at a park that was under construction but not gated. No one was there. I drove our car and trailer up a gravel path, well past the parking lot so that we could park closer to a picnic bench.
While we were eating 4 grown men in a beat up old compact car drove into the park, drove through the parking lot and up the gravel path to within 20 feet on our car, on the opposite side from where we were and sat in their car.
I walked quickly down to my trailer to retrieve my pistol. I walked back up to the park bench, not showing my gun and the 4 of us stood looking at the 4 of them for a few minutes. Finally they drove away.
An hour or so later as we were driving down the highway I found myself driving right behind the same guys. As soon as the driver looked in his review and saw us I he pulled over and we drove on by.
I think that even though they didn't see a gun they assumed that is what I got out of my trailer.
Does anyone think I overreacted?

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by leprechaun50: ...Why should lawfully retrieving my pistol from the trunk and placing it in my holster get me arrested? I am legal to carry in Oklahoma, and at no time did I look directly at, or point my pistol at them. I removed it from its case and holstered it. I don't think that qualifies as brandishing, or flashing.

You may not think so, but your opinion will not matter.

Perhaps a jury may not think so, but you would still have had a rough time of it--and lost your non-refundable security deposit.

Here's what you said you did:

As I holstered my pistol I turned sideways toward them so they could plainly see what I was doing.

One more time, emphasis added:

As I holstered my pistol I turned sideways toward them so they could plainly see what I was doing.

Clearly, your intent was to influence their behavior by showing a firearm.

You could argue that your action had been misunderstood, and that you had not been trying to make an impression on them, but it would come down to your word against theirs, and perhaps against their video images of you, had they taken any.

Your caution was well advised and prudent, but as scaatylobo pointed out, it is a good idea to err on the side of not being arrested.

With the gun on, you had a defensive option, should the need have materialized. Giving someone in another vehicle reason to feel threatened by turning so they can see it without lawful justification can make you the suspect, if not the culprit.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

No Kayaker,
I don't think you overreacted. Your tale seems more menacing and you didn't intentionally show your weapon.

 

[Kleanbore]

Your tale seems more menacing and you didn't intentionally show your weapon.

Actually, he said he did just that, and he did so on a public forum.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I thought I read that Kayaker did not show his gun in his story he was relating to the OP's.

 

[Kleanbore]

I thought I read that Kayaker did not show his gun in his story he was relating to the OP's.

I stand corrected. I was referring to leprechaun50's actions.

Kayaker's post contains nothing that indicates overreaction.

 

[leprechaun50]

Kleanbore, I respect your opinions as I have read many of your responses to other posts on a variety of subjects. Would you throw out a couple of hypothetical responses that you feel more appropriate to my situation?

 

[CA Raider]

leprechaun ... thought about your incident. think I've got an idea what they were up to. they didn't want you - they wanted YOUR VEHICLE. i'm guessing you probably had a nice truck, or a good SUV. you'd need some space to move those dogs. chances are those guys were planning an armed carjacking ... they need trucks and SUV's for smuggling drugs once they're brought up over the border. they probably followed you for a while in TX ... you might not have been aware of them. they're looking for lone drivers, probably out-of-state plates, with SUV's that have a lot of room in the back.

so that being the case (and it's unproven), your actions might have just saved your life. good job.

CA R

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by leprechaun50: Would you throw out a couple of hypothetical responses that you feel more appropriate to my situation?

How about arming yourself without making any movement that could be interpreted or characterized as threatening, and walking the dogs while keeping the men in sight?

 

[leprechaun50]

Kleanbore, Thanks for your reply. I understand that I shouldn't have allowed the pistol to be viewed by them, and this would have been possible, and I still could have armed myself. I always figure that I can learn to do things better.

 

[Kleanbore]

One Other Thing...

While OK law permits persons with an OK carry permit to carry openly, an AG opinion linked on Handgunlaw.us states that persons with permits from other states must keep their handguns concealed.

I do not know if that is current.

 

[Mainsail]

I think that if I hadn't made a point of letting them know that I was armed, things would have gone south for me.

I don't think you necessarily overreacted; you trusted your gut. By holstering in a nonchalant manner- not looking at them while you did so- wasn't threatening. If I were sitting innocently in a parking lot and saw someone holster a firearm (in such a matter of fact sort of way) before walking some dogs, I wouldn't for a moment feel threatened. Obviously they weren't threatened despite what some of our experts here say- or they would have launched out of there with tires squealing.

The first thing I wondered about was why you showed them you were armed at all. The conventional wisdom around here is that it's always better to wait until you're attacked and then play your element-of-surprise card.