Calling those who have a different opinion than yours pathetic is insulting and just wrong.
True enough, but to clarify; in this case, @kidneyboy used the (admittedly strong) term “pathetic” to refer to an argument, rather than anyone directly.
Calling those who have a different opinion than yours pathetic is insulting and just wrong.
Calling those who have a different opinion than yours pathetic is insulting and just wrong.
On about every youtube review and within their comments, forum post, etc, the overwhelming consensus is that the lock is unwanted. Even people who deal with the lock, usually also meantion they do not want it there.You are missing the point - The people complaining about locks are a small but annoyingly noisy group with zero influence on anything S&W does. Revolver sales increase every year. What is the descriptor for someone that whines about something they can't change?
Nah. If he's right, then it's not wrong to insult people who are wrong.
I just don't think he's right, given that:
- Failures are real and they do matter.
- [Almost] nobody wants the lock.
- [Almost] nobody needs the lock.
- The lock is probably only there because of kowtowing/capitulating to, or being a subsidiary of anti-American interests (but which are disguised as corporate greed)
I'd agree 110%. I'd also like to add that I don't get why some are insulted or take (passive aggressive) issue when consumers voicing their personal opposition to the lock.This is the part of the internal lock discussion I don't get. I think very few, if any, of us can actually have a meaningful effect on whether S&W offers the lock or not. Even collectively we seem to have limited effect. Yet these arguments always degenerate into an argument about what S&W should or should not do or what OTHER people should or should not do about the lock.
In reality the lock is here, it does not appear to be going anywhere. All you can do when considering YOUR OWN purchase of a S&W revolver, is research the lock, and then decided if your are buying pre-lock (or of the limited offering of lock-less J-frames), buying post-lock and living with it, buy post lock and removing/disabling the lock or not buying S&W at all. Have I missed an option?
No amount of arguing changes your options in buying a S&W revolver. I would bet $5 on the fact that S&W is not monitoring this forum as part of the future produce planing process.
Why do some get insulted when someone else selects an option different than their own choice? All you can do is put the FACTS out there and let other people decide.
Home invasions are "statistically insignificant" in Cheshire, Connecticut... unless your name is Pettit.Failures may be real but they are statistically insignificant.
Buttttt... They already started offering some revolvers without the lock just as they offer semiautos without safeties. I disagree and it remains to be seen if they do not start offering more or even all models without a lock in the future.From a Gun Nuts Media article a few years ago -
"Lawyers + publicly traded company = the lock stays. Regardless of how it would play out in terms of sales, there’s basically no way to convince a publicly traded company that walking back a “safety feature” would play well on the NASDAQ. Even though it would actually increase sales, publicly traded companies like S&W tend to be risk-adverse, and for good reason. They have a duty to deliver returns to their shareholders, which is harder to do when CNN is running hit pieces on “gun manufacturer makes guns less safe.”
While I disagree with the increased sales comment ( look at the numbers folks) this is as good an explanation as your going to get.
The USPSA Revolver Nationals since 2014 has been dominated by the 8-shot revolvers, for the past three years the majority of the match has been shot with 9mm 8-shot revolvers (eclipsing 38 Short Colt in 38/357 mag guns). Some of the best and highest volume revolver shooters in the country are shooting new internal lock, MIM guns (would be interesting to know how many have removed the lock). The winner of 2016, 2017, and 2018 match did so with a 929. You have to go back to 2015 to find a pre lock gun in the top spot and the guy that won in 2015 is now using a 929 also.
Do competitive shooters typically shoot heavier magnum loads are do they shoot mostly lighter reloads, 45 ACP, 9MM, 38 Special etc? The problem seems to occur with heavier hunting or self defense loads that competitive shooter tend to avoid for obvious reasons. ... Most people that are concerned about and do not like the idea of the lock, especially since there IS more than one CREDIBLE documentation of the lock failing, plan on carrying for life or death situations and not for competition purposes.. That might be another reason why the lock isn't a main concern in the competitive demographic even though a quick search does show that the topic of the S&W lock has in fact come up on the forums you mentioned from time to time.Personally I don't care what anyone likes, dislikes, owns, shoots or recommends. All I care about is what I have and do.
The truth of the matter is for now at least if you want to shoot in a competitive environment then with two (small) exceptions, it's S&W L or N frames period. I have been shooting competitive revolver for 3 years, I'm in a geographic location that has probably more than average numbers of competitive revolver shooters, I have easily sent 50,000 rounds down range with my competition revolvers, all three have the lock. I'm not one of them but I know some of the serious competitive revolver shooters in the NE, share range time with them, speak to them, listen to their stories. They all shoot revolvers with the lock. None of them talk about the lock that seems to dominate the thinking of many on this forum.
I have seen strain screws back out, rebound springs break, firing pins break, grips fall off, sights break, yoke screws fall out, side plate screws fall out and so forth. I have never seen, heard of or experienced a problem with the dreaded lock. At places like Brian Enos forum or Revo-Nation FB no one talks about the lock. No high volume competitive revolver shooter that I know of makes a buying decision based on the lock.
Very well said^^^
If he's right, then it's not wrong to insult people who are wrong.
it is fairly well established that when you take extremely high or low probability events and couple that with extremely dire or extremely beneficial outcomes for said high/low probability events the human psyche is notorious for completely misinterpreting the probabilities due to the potential outcome (lots of scholarly articles on this).
There is no place for personal insults in a civil discussion forum
Other than atheistics and possibile future valve appreciation, does an integral special key revolver lock affect or could affect the functionality of a revolver?
Has there ever been a case of a malfunctioning integral revolver lock rendering the revolver inoperable?
To be fair, I did not start this thread and would not start a thread like this one.You are missing the point - The people complaining about locks are a small but annoyingly noisy group with zero influence on anything S&W does. Revolver sales increase every year. What is the descriptor for someone that whines about something they can't change?
Do competitive shooters typically shoot heavier magnum loads are do they shoot mostly lighter reloads, 45 ACP, 9MM, 38 Special etc? The problem seems to occur with heavier hunting or self defense loads that competitive shooter tend to avoid for obvious reasons. ... Most people that are concerned about and do not like the idea of the lock, especially since there IS more than one CREDIBLE documentation of the lock failing, plan on carrying for life or death situations and not for competition purposes.. That might be another reason why the lock isn't a main concern in the competitive demographic even though a quick search does show that the topic of the S&W lock has in fact come up on the forums you mentioned from time to time.
I would say that no to magnum loads. I'm of course in no way at the center of all things revolver but I do find myself at various venues and that quite often. I would say that in purely my personal opinion, of which my opinion is just as valid as anyone else, that those that fret over the lock because they shoot magnum loads don't do a whole lot of actual shooting.
And yes it is true that the lock comes up on enos and revo-nation but those who raise up the subject are bringing it up because they read something on the interweb chit-chat boards and those who answer them by saying no biggie are actually those who do a lot of actual shooting.
But again, I repeat, I personally don't care what anyone owns, shoots or recommends. I don't get my advice on hardware purchases from people I don't know.
Once you have the hammer out, use tweezers to pluck out the leaf. Use a file to cut the nub off, and a stone to smooth the inside face. Grease, reassemble, and go in peace.Now, any ideas for an expedient plug -- rather than spending, what, $10 or $20 for a small piece of rubber?