Is Glock the Colt 1911 of the 1980s & earlier?

[bassjam]

I see Glock's path as similar to Harley Davidson. At some point in the 80's HD decided that they no longer needed to innovate and instead would rely on brand recongition and marketing. That worked great for them while baby boomers still purchased their motorcycles, but eventually younger generations realized that their designs were tired and no longer competed with modern offerings.

Glock is in a similar boat now. You have Gen X and some millennials solidily supporting Glock. But you're already seeing a shift in younger shooters towards SIG, both with the modular system of the P320 and more importantly IMO the P365 with it's higher capacity. I don't see Glock in too much trouble with their G17/19, but if they don't offer a high capacity micro 9mm that could start pulling them down because that's where the trend seems to be going. Glock was way everyon else in offering single stack conceal carry guns, and they show no signs of "upgrading" to the new thin modified-double-stack conceal carry guns.

 

[trackskippy]

Hopefully they do a CZ Shadow 2 next.

Although plates are handy, if we want to shoot iron sights as well.

Looks like they have them for a number of guns now. Tech is getting smaller.

Nice thing with those is, you don't need suppressor sights. The factory sights are visible as back ups.

 

[MarshallDodge]

Glock has a lot of competition. I find some of the competitors, such as the HK VP9, to be a big improvement with more features, solid reliability, and similar price point.

Sig and S&W are gaining ground as well. It will be interesting to see how long Glock can maintain market share.

 

[doubleh]

You buy a Glock because it feels all the same.

That is my problem with them. They do not feel right in my hand and I am not going to make an effort to adapt to learn to shoot one. Too darn many that do fit to mess with a Block. Pardon me I meant Glock. Oh. They are ugly too.

Alright…. Let all buy a Glock this Year!

19MOS here I come

No way, no how, forget it. You could give me one. I could trade it for something else.

 

[JohnB-40]

I only own one Glock,a G48 MOS and a few 1911s,all Commander size. I had a 43X,but sold it on as my LC9s suits my need for CC better. I guess the 48 reminds me somewhat of a 9mm Commander,plus that I could mount a RDS and Streamlight on right out the box. I think of it as a good tool that fits its role perfectly as a nightstand pistol.

 

[lysanderxiii]

I would say Glocks fill the the spot that the S&W Model 10 filled in the 1970s and 1980s . . .

Most people back then, if they carried, carried a revolver.

 

[trackskippy]

I would say Glocks fill the the spot that the S&W Model 10 filled in the 1970s and 1980s . . .

Most people back then, if they carried, carried a revolver.

I see your point, and I don't think youre far off in your assessment.

While I did carry a couple of different Model 10's back in the mid 70's for a short while, the Colt 1911's are what I carried most, from then up into the early 2000's.

And for about 15 years now, a Glock 17. Pretty hard to beat them for a day in, day out, hard use, high volume gun.

 

[FL-NC]

In terms of popularity and use, I'd say yes. Probably even more so since during most of the 1911 "heyday" there wasn't much available in the auto pistol realm (at least in common use) outside of some offerings by S&W, mostly in 9mm. Seems everything else was mostly either euro pistols of varying quality and price, or wheel guns. At least that's how I remember it.

 

[JohnKSa]

How are we sure Gaston was so confident in his design he prevented innovative deviations?

Talking with one of the original design team at SHOT some years ago, it was mentioned that GG knew that they could bump the capacity of the guns by a round or two by going to a conventional metal mag vs the plastic clad but was unwilling to make the change. That and other things (the company motto for one thing) suggested that GG was very happy with the design and not interested in changing it significantly.

And so did Colt, but he's not around.

I was talking about Colt the company and Glock the company with that statement, not the men in specific. Glock may or may not have innovated the way they should have, but they have executed flawlessly when it comes to the business side of things. Colt made frequent missteps on the business side and that hurt them badly.

 

[JDeere]

Glock will be around even though Gaston has passed. You have those that say they don't like them but that goes for anything when you have choices. The sample of those on a forum is small. There are many in use by the general public who don't frequent these forums. Lots of LEO's and Departments out there sold on them for their ease of use and accuracy out of the box. I'm one who always looks to see what butt is sticking out of an officers holster just out of curiosity. There are a whole lot of Glocks out there in my neck of the woods.. Will that change? I don't see it happening but stranger things have happened...

 

[JTQ]

Talking with one of the original design team at SHOT some years ago, it was mentioned that GG knew that they could bump the capacity of the guns by a round or two by going to a conventional metal mag vs the plastic clad but was unwilling to make the change.

Of course, when it was introduced, the G17 had a 17 round capacity compared to the primary competitors, the SIG P226 and Beretta 92FS that "only" had 15 round capacities.

By the time SIG and Beretta upped their capacities, Glock was well established and changing the mags probably wasn't worth it.

 

[JohnKSa]

By the time SIG and Beretta upped their capacities, Glock was well established and changing the mags probably wasn't worth it.

It's an example of the way of thinking rather than the sole evidence for the idea. For example, a different company (H&K) did decide to move away from plastic mags for their USP line, indicating that they did think changing the mags was worth it--different philosophy.

 

[JTQ]

It's an example of the way of thinking rather than the sole evidence for the idea. For example, a different company (H&K) did decide to move away from plastic mags for their USP line, indicating that they did think changing the mags was worth it--different philosophy.

Though the mag is one of the strong suits of the Glock design. Aside from already having greater capacity than the competition at the time of introduction, they are durable and reliable.

Conversely, the polymer mag was generally considered the weak link in the USP line-up. The polymer mag was never used in the USP45, and when they designed the P30 they designed the new metal mag and it became the common mag for follow-on guns like the VP9. Note HK P30 and VP9 were 15 round guns until just a couple of years ago.

Perhaps if Glock ever comes up with a different gun, they really only make one gun, just in different sizes and different calibers, perhaps they will design a different mag.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Though the mag is one of the strong suits of the Glock design. Aside from already having greater capacity than the competition at the time of introduction, they are durable and reliable.

Many folks don't know that the Glock mag is in it's 11th generation. Not really surprising as Glock usually doesn't announce it's changes between platform generations.

The first generation Glock magazines weren't designed to drop free, which made sense when producing a magazine for a Nordic military contract. It was only after heavy negative feedback from the training teams they had to send out when a LE contract was awarded (to prevent a rash of ND at adopting agencies) that they started producing magazines with steel liners.

It was during this same time that Glock was convinced to harden their slide to prevent premature wear of the slide stop notch ...they didn't expect Americans to be married to releasing the slide using the slide stop.

An issue attributed to the magazines , which wasn't a magazine issue was the FTF(eed), of G3 G22s, when a WML as attached. This was really a frame flexing issue which was addressed in the G4...which caused some FTF issues in the G17

 

[doubleh]

I know very little about the Glock except I don't care for them and that is the reason I do not. Different grip shape and they might be OK except the fact they are about the ugliest of the plastic fantastics. The failings of business practices doesn't keep the Colt 1911 from being a nice gun. Everything is in the right place and the grip is excellent. Just about everyone and their dog offers a 1911.

 

[Offhand McFlan]

I so wish that Steyr had just been a little farther along with perfecting their designs. I would LOVE to have seen Steyr beat Glock for Austria's military sidearm. Such a nicer looking and better feeling pistol!

 

[InTheSwamp]

He didn't design the pistol that eventually became the G-17, he hire designers to research and took the features of the most popular pistols and incorporated his experience in polymers to manufacture the frame...following the lead of H&K.

He had a vision and hired the right people to build it -- that was his talent, just as Steve Jobs' (a lousy computer guy, at best)
I'm not sure if Gaston was the roadblock that prevented innovation, but I also am not sure there has been much innovation in the "plastic fantastic" field since.
May modern designs have come forward benefitting users demands, better ergonomics, etc., but from the engineering angle I have yet to see one as stupidly simple and reliable as the Glock.

The early failures were just that, failures of a new product. Most, if not all, have been corrected without much cosmetic change.

 

[Zerodefect]

If you want to innovate, you start a new company for that. Not wreck an icon.

Glock made good curtain rods, knives, clothing, and various horse gear.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Most, if not all, have been corrected without much cosmetic change.

BTF has been with us since the Gen3 G17...they won't even acknowledge that it is an issue

He had a vision and hired the right people to build it -- that was his talent,

I'm pretty sure his "vision" going to the bank with wheelbarrows of money...maybe that the Glock Horse Performance Center for his second wife

As stated earlier, Glock wasn't a gun guy. He was a manufacturer who had ties with the Austrian military through his contract to produce knives. He heard of an opportunity and jumped on it...right place, right time

 

[jmorris]

So I was thinking about this today.. Seems like Glock is acting exactly like Colt did in the 1980s and earlier in failing to listen to consumers desires and failing to read the changes in the gun market. People wanted more features in their 1911s as seen in competition and defensive arms offered by custom gunsmiths.

I don't compete with anything that is "off the shelf" stock.

Out of curiosity, what do they need to add, to stay "in touch"?

Not like a bevertail grip safety, ambi-thumb safety and Bomar sight, is going to be deal breakers on Glocks....

Adding a red dot is doable and I like them better than my front sights that have gone fuzzy. I think there might be as much after market stuff for a Glock as the Ruger 10/22, too. Say that 5 times fast...

 

[Asbtg]

I'm not a Glock guy, but what would be those more modern and desirable features? A rail, MOS? Glock offers those. Their sights are usually lousy, but they are so easily replaced (especially compared to most other guns), and they have more after market sight options than just about anybody, that like other Glock shortcomings it is almost a "feature". What do you want on a gun that Glock isn't offering?

The only thing I haven't seen on Glock's that some of the other makers have offered is the polymer striker gun made with a metal frame such as the M&P Competitor, Walther PDP Steel Frame.

That block isn't offering? A grip that isn't a 2x4. That's when I'll buy one. Otherwise they're great.

 

[Zerodefect]

What size shoe do you wear?

Does a CZ Shadow 2's round front strap, feel too small?

I love the Glock grip. Rounded where I need rounded. Flat where I need flat. I hate oval grips that are too small. (1911)

Large beavertail. Then I simply fit the thick trigger guard to my hand shape.

[Little bit of olde 1911 history, but Browning originally shaped the 1911 for the oval grip of a common octopus. At the time, it seemed like they'd be perfect soldiers. Never came to be, because they couldn't ride horses......for long.]

 

[The Happy Kaboomer]

Never wanted or owned a Glock.......Among other things the grip angle is all wrong. Plus they are butt ugly........And I don't like that swinging dingus in the trigger.

 

[InTheSwamp]

He heard of an opportunity and jumped on it...right place, right time

And a great product.

 

[9mmepiphany]

And a great product.

Yes, I've spoken to a couple of the designers at SHOT, after they'd left Glock

They were very good at looking "outside the box"