Is less than lethal ammo an option for you?

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Roadwild17

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Say you have a shotty for HD would you have some less than lethal hanging around? It would come in handy for a BG armed with something like a bat or chuck of 2X4. Would it advisable to have like lethal in the mag and 1 less than lethal (as your first round) for just incase? Or would you rather take the time to cycle a less than lethal round into the mix?

Thanx,
Gavin
 
Okay, first, a baseball bat is a lethal weapon and its use justifies lethal force in response.

Second, the cops don't use less-lethal stuff unless someone else is standing by ready to use lethal force if the less-lethal stuff doesn't work. And less-lethal stuff doesn't always work, no matter what you've seen on TV.

Third, it's less-lethal, not less-than-lethal. If you use it, you could still kill the guy. So if you aren't willing to risk killing the guy and don't believe lethal force is both justified and necessary, you shouldn't pull the trigger even if it's "only" less-lethal stuff in your gun.

pax
 
NO.

I have seen the results of a chunk of 2x4 , baseball bat, glass coffee pot, lamp...stick, brick-bat...etc.

Some are dead, some forever impaired mentally, others disfigured for life, and besides any "physical" scarring, the emotional scars run deep. The Rapes did not help anything either...

I load my shotgun with slugs.

It is not the "tool" it is always the intent of user wielding said tool.

My responsibility to myself, and any others if so happens is 1) not be there when trouble is there, 2) evade trouble if can , or 3) Stop an immediate threat if my life ( or those reponsible for) are in immediate danger.

I had to make an determination many many years ago and be brutally honest with ME, in regard to accepting certain responsible actions on my part and the outcomes of such actions.

In my assisting with CCW days, there were some that could not accept responsibility to stop an immediate action. Some never got their CCW, some did later on, some as a result of someone close being a victim, or themselves.

Gut Check , Reality check...just because BG is not using a firearm, edged weapon - does not mean the situation is "not a serious threat".
 
They don't always work so you've made him mad and lost precious seconds .It isn't a game , if you pick up that gun be ready instantly to fire a real round .Police do have backup when using them.
 
Hi All-

My modified 870 Police Magnum is loaded with buckshot. Keeps it easy to remember.

~ Blue Jays ~
 
I'm prepared to use lethal force the moment I decide to grab the Mossberg.

If I dont feel lethal force is needed, it stays propped up in a corner.
 
Less that lethal options or a hesitation to use lethal force against an attack or home invasion is a damned good way to get killed. NUFF SAID!!
 
If a situation has deteriorated to the point where I am having to present a weapon, the only thing coming out of said weapon will be large chunks of lead alloys, travelling at multiple hundreds of feet per second.

No bean bags, no rubber, no flares/dragon's breath, etc. Lead alloys only.

I know firsthand how much damage a sock full of wet sand applied upside the head can cause. I could tell you, if only I could hear your questions over the 747 that has been buzzing my right ear for the past 25 years.
 
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Nope. None of that stuff here, if I am justified in pointing a shotgun at you and pulling the trigger (that's lethal force in itself), I better be justified in killing you. I know of one case near here where an officer was killed in a training exercise with a _blank round_ fired from a shotgun, there simply isn't any 'less lethal' round that will not kill under certain circumstances.

Menu here is low recoil 00 buckshot in the magazine, Brenneke KO slugs in the sidesaddle, no exceptions.

lpl/nc
 
NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you are gonna grab it , Its on
dont bet or expect a second chance
 
Strictly in the interests of research and because I thought it might be good to run off some nuisance dogs in our area I bought a couple boxes of rubber buckshot to try out.

The penetration and patterning tests showed that at contact distances and short ranges this stuff isn't "less lethal." Beyond 20 yards it was useless, lost velocity quickly and wouldn't pattern worth a darn.

It's not an option for me.
 
Lee Lapin said:
Nope. None of that stuff here, if I am justified in pointing a shotgun at you and pulling the trigger (that's lethal force in itself), I better be justified in killing you. I know of one case near here where an officer was killed in a training exercise with a _blank round_ fired from a shotgun, there simply isn't any 'less lethal' round that will not kill under certain circumstances.

Menu here is low recoil 00 buckshot in the magazine, Brenneke KO slugs in the sidesaddle, no exceptions.

lpl/nc

Brandon Lee was killed with a blank IIRC.
 
OK folks; I have been carrying and training people with most all types of small arms for 40+ years: My opinion on less lethal, it is NOT non-lethal. All less lethal ammo will kill under some circumstances. If you are not being backed up by a skilled comrade with a "lethal" load, just don't do it. And never but never, mix loads, lethal and less lethal in your magazine. If you use the "wrong" round and kill someone, that mixing will be called at least negligence and probably reckless or wanton. The first term is civil liability, the latter terms usually involve criminal liability.
If you use the less lethal ammo with lethal results, your goose is cooked, at least in a civil trial for damages(because you tried to not kill, but killed anyway, indicating you were at least careless).
Very few civilians are going to get the type of training and practice that will even minimally qualify them to use less lethal ammo effectively. The stuff costs lots of money, and its performance in the best trained hands is erratic. In the most likely HD scenario, any less than lethal ammo is contraindicated due to the circumstances of the engagement; i.e. close ranges, low or non-extant lighting, lots of stress and pressure, add to that trying to remember which round in the mag or the chamber is less lethal and which is the real thing, and you have a made to order disaster. It happens that way to real professionals, who shoot a lot(I am not talking about your local beat LEO here), and that is why very few of them use less lethal, except under the most controlled situation.
If you are authorized lethal force, use it!!! Be sad about it later, but use it if it means you and your family will be more secure. You want less lethal, get a softball.
 
Someone comes into my home univited, well...They'll have to talk to Miss Manners. She's my Mossberg loaded with 7 rounds of Federal 2 3/4" Magnum 00 buck.

I think the box was labeled: More Lethal.
 
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