Is Open Carry Practical

[Desertscout]

Understand that I wrote this a few months ago. Some of it pertains to the discussion here and some doesn't so don't anyone go off the deep end here. If the shoe fits, but I'm not directing this at anyone here.
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I simply cannot believe what I am hearing here. I guess carrying a gun is something relatively new for some of you. In many places, especially out here in the West, putting your gun on every day and wearing it openly is no different than putting on your hat or a pair of gloves or a tool-belt. Jeez! It blows me away that some of you talk about tactical advantages and disadvantages and all this other stuff. Certainly there are times and places where carrying openly may not be the best thing but come on!.

Xxxxx, how can possibly compare exercising your God-given, Constitutionally protected rights with being exposed to filthy, perverse, immoral sexual behavior. Bad choice for comparisons.

How in the hell can you believe that we should have a right and then, in the same breath, say that it is one that should go un-exercised? That is one of the most ridiculous things that I have ever heard. Like any other right (or muscles), if they are not used, they will be weakened or lost.

You say there could not possibly be a single tactical advantage. Is that because Ayoob says so? You say it very definitively like it was some kind of proven statistic. It is not. I've heard this statement many times and it still doesn't make any sense. You cannot possibly have a clue as to how many crimes or attacks have been prevented because the would-be perpetrator saw someone with a gun in the area. If you were intent on robbing a store or a bank, would you go ahead with your plans if you saw someone standing in line wearing a gun? Of course not! Most people that perform these kinds of crimes are punks and cowards or too smart to want to get involved in a shoot-out.

Then there are those that claim that carrying openly makes you a target and that you'll be the first one taken out. I say BS!. Is it possible? Sure. Is it likely? About as likely as getting hit by lightning I think. If someone just wants to kill someone, they will. There are hundreds of interviews of convicted felons where they have said that they would not or did not carry out a plan due to employees or occupants or customers being armed. Can you count on not being a target? Certainly not. Nor can you count on not becoming a target if you are carrying concealed. Possibly, the perpetrator, upon seeing a gun, changed his mind and a shooting was averted. Possibly not. Possibly, because you were carrying concealed, the crook was braver and you were forced into a shooting. To exclaim that you are certain of either is the height of arrogance and cannot be proven.

It's a personal choice and you are taking a bit of a chance by doing either. It comes with the territory.

Here is something that I wrote a while back and have posted here before but as long as folks keep bringing it up, I suppose it's OK if I keep posting it....

Xxxx, I think the biggest difference in our opinions here is our locations. If I lived somewhere that I thought it was as bad as you describe, I would move. Nobody cares here. As I mentioned above, I have carried openly every day since I've been back in this state which was in 1998 and I have had maybe 1 or 2 negative comments. Prior to that, I lived in AZ for a while. Same story. Before that, Wyoming. Same story. I guess the bottom line is, I will NOT live where carrying a gun in the open scares people as bad as some of you claim that it does. If I lived in St. Louis, maybe I wouldn't carry but I wouldn't live there so it doesn't matter.

No, I don't intentionally TRY to offend folks. I just don't care if I do. I don't fart at the table and I don't say f&%$ around women. When I am in someone's home, I do as they wish. If that bothers me, I leave. When they come to my house, I expect them to conduct themselves in a manner that is consistent with how we live. However, I don't think exercising a right can be compared to fartin' and cussin'. People are offended by guns because of emotion, not morals or scruples. AFAIC, when we worry about how much we offend them, they have won.

This is the reason that we will never win all of our rights back without bloodshed. Because the gun-grabbers all agree on one thing and we can't agree on anything. Some gun owners think it's OK to own pumps and levers but not semi-autos. Some say it's OK to have shotguns but not "black" rifles. Some say 10 round mags are OK but not 30 round mags. Some say it's OK to carry a gun as long we don't offend anyone and others don't care.
AFAIC, it's all or nothing. I'm tired of compromising. It's not working.

Be that as it may, you may be interested to know that I addressed this very thing on my radio show a few weeks ago. I said even though it was legal and we had a right to carry openly just about anywhere here in NM, it wasn't necessarily the right thing to do in some cases. I said that those that wave the Constitution in everyone's face and say the 2nd amendment is their carry permit are going to eventually disarm all of us. I admonished those that were so inclined to either carry concealed or don't take their gun in places like theaters, churches, Boys and Girls Clubs, etc. Our CCW law states, as most do, that if a business or individual puts up a sign saying "no guns" that means no guns, openly or concealed, permit or not. So, if we walk in someplace that is NOT posted and try to force our right right to carry on them, all they have to do is put up a sign and your right to carry is gone without changing the law. At least in that particular place.

To that end, I very much encourage people to carry concealed under those circumstances. I never "encourage" people to carry openly except by saying that it is your right and if you want to, you should exercise that right. As far as just walking down the street and tending to my normal business, I absolutely will NOT carry concealed just for fear of hurting someone's feelings.

The difference here is that a couple of folks here don't seem to support my right as I have clearly supported theirs. If some of you think that there is some perceived "tactical advantage" to being concealed, that's OK with me, I just don't agree. I haven't called you dumb or disparaged you in any manner. As I have said more than once, there may be a handful of cases out there where that has proven to be the case but to say that carrying openly has NEVER given an advantage is ridiculous because it cannot be proven either way.

As I also said, location has a lot to do with this. Some of you are afraid to carry openly even where it is legal because of what the cops might say. THAT is where I have a problem. I was pulled over in a little town in NV late one night by a female cop. She asked me to get out and, since I was carrying openly, I told her that I was wearing a gun and asked if that was OK. She got kind of smart and said, mockingly, "you're wearing a gun and is that OK?" I said , "Yes, Ma'am." She told me to get out and keep my hands where she could see them (like that would do here any good if I had less than honorable intentions) and called in my information. She called back-up and when he got there, we discussed the finer points of the Glock vs. the 1911 and he finally left when he decided that she didn't really need any back-up. When she handed my license back, she said, "So why are you carrying a gun?" to which I said, "Why are you?". She said, "Because I'm law enforcement and I have to." I said, "I'm a civilian and I GET to". She had nothing on me and we both went our merry ways.

I was stopped another time a State cop in NM for a faulty tail light. I told him that I could fix it on the spot if he would allow me to. He said OK, and I told him I was carrying before I got out. He said that for his safety, would I unload the gun and give it to him and I told him "no". I said that my vehicle was considered an extension of my home in this state and that I would be glad to leave it in the truck while I got out to fix the light. I didn't give him time to reply and he was in a position of advantage so I turned the inside light on and slowly and deliberately took the gun out and slid it between the seats. When I got out, I locked the doors and left the keys in the ignition so NO ONE could get them. Once I fixed the light, I thanked him, took the spare key out of my wallet and unlocked the door and left.

There is rarely any issue with LE in this state if you conduct yourself properly and confidently.

 

[buck00]

In many places, especially out here in the West, putting your gun on every day and wearing it openly is no different than putting on your hat or a pair of gloves or a tool-belt.

I think that is outstanding that there are small towns where you can OC without the slightest issue... where junior high kids can still walk to and from school with .22s slung over their shoulders to go rabbit hunting at lunch, etc etc. (Andy Griffith playing in background, ) However, back east in larger cities, the suburbs, and built-up areas OC can cause problems and generally create more anti-gun reactions/feelings than positives ones.

Its rights vs common sense.

In PA for example, there is no logical reason to OC at say, a mall. It has the potential to upset or alarm people, makes me a prime target for harassment and/or detention by police, and worst of all- it forfeits the tactical advantage that a hidden CCW provides.

I generally think guys who OC at crowded malls or restaurants do it to get a rise out of other people, get attention, indulge in a seductive sense of power, and they generally have too much time on their hands. Personally I like to go about my business at the mall without drawing attention to myself or having people question/confront me.

* CCW is a great thing simply because you protect yourself and loved ones and the masses are blissfully ignorant of it.


* I will concede to this. While I don't believe in OC, its nice PA has it on the books. Why? If my shirt accidentally slides up, it isn't "brandishing" I am now merely OCing... and the charge wouldn't stick. However, that said... there is no reason to flaunt it. Before you blurt out "its my right", use some common sense.

 

[Werewolf]

If I were intent on robbing a particular person who is open carrying a firearm...

Fallacy first: A mugger/robber isn't intent on robbing a particular person. They are intent on obtaining money or other valuables with the least amount of effort and risk possible. Robbing someone open carrying is not without it's risk which are much more substantial than robbing someone who may be armed but probably isn't. Which is exactly why the apparently unarmed victim would be chosen over the obviously armed victim. Those that appear unarmed probably are and thus represent less risk than those who obviously are armed.

I'd be compelled to shoot the bugger before he had a chance to react.

Fallacy 2nd: Which is even riskier because just about any shooting attracts attention of passersby and eventually the police. Add in that the penalties for murdering someone while commiting a felony robbery are exponentially higher than not and the risk factor to the mugger is even greater. Again muggers and robbers aren't interested in that. That's not to say there aren't some whacked out violent nutjobs out there that could care less but they are few and whether you CC or OC won't matter to them anyway.

OC'ng is a deterrent. No one has produced any evidence that someone OC'ng has had their weapon taken. And as far as I know I've never heard of anyone OC'ng that's been mugged - doesn't mean it hasn't happened but if it has in the last 50 years or so I'd be darned surprised.

Is there a tactical advantage to Concealed Carry. Of course there is and in high risk environments CC may be the way to go. But there is no advantage to it under normal circumstances and the uncertainty of whether you are armed or not may invite it when OC would otherwise deter it. Thus what little advantage is gained by surprise is overshadowed by the deterrent advantage of OC.

If CC deterred muggings simply because of the uncertainty involved in the process there would be no muggings - assuming that is that muggers have the intelligence to make a rational decision about it and I propose that's exactly what they do. Even in the most heavily armed states the concealed carry rate is less than 2.5%. The odds arre in the mugger's favor and if he's smart he'll be the 1st one to pull the gun and isn't that exactly what they usually do?

Are you fast enough to draw on a guy from concealment who's already got his weapon pointed at your face and shoot him before he shoots you? I'm NOT! If you are maybe you should be giving Sly Stallone lessons on how to be a better RAMBO!

 

[czbegenner]

OK guys understand that everyone see life a little different,but that does not make it wrong.Some places it would be ok,some not,Now why are we fighting each other,we are for the same cause to keep the 2nd allive,but if we keep fighting were giving the other side fuel to feed the fire,It's bad enough to say"we need to ban guns,we need to limit the amount they can hold,we need to ban assult weapons" Somebody define
Assult weapon??? Just because it can hold 30 rounds or more does it define this as an assult weapon?? If this is the case a Shotgun with more than 3 rounds can be called a assult weapon??(hum) Lets just stick together regardless of our views we need to stick together,and help each other with info to make each and everyone on this sight better equipped with knowledge and to be the best firearm owner we can

 

[Louisiana Carry]

When are we going Shooting, cz?

You been to Long Range Alley, yet? I am an RSO there.

 

[Desertscout]

I don't think anybody is fighting anybody. Where did that come from?

 

[BlackBearME]

First of all, I want to echo everything Werewolf said. He said the things that come into my head every other time but when I'm sitting at the computer.

Next:

In PA for example, there is no logical reason to OC at say, a mall. It has the potential to upset or alarm people, makes me a prime target for harassment and/or detention by police, and worst of all- it forfeits the tactical advantage that a hidden CCW provides

Wrong wrong and wrong.
Now, I'm not saying your conclusions are wrong - I'm sure they are. The problem is that we got to this state. Think back 150-200 years. People OC'd all the time. I'm sure they CCd too, but that's beside the point. I've never read any evidence that a person OCing in a shopping area in 1850 sparked a mass panic.

The problem is not with the result, the problem is how we got here. What has happened to change the situation? Sensitization, and the endless campaigning by people such as the...logic-challenged Brady Campaign, HCI, etc. The guns have certainly not gotten less lethal - in fact, only more so, with the advent of more calibers, HP bullets, reliability of auto-loaders, etc. As we all know, it's not the guns that are the problem. It's the attitudes of people.

I suggest a study (I'm not really suggesting anyone do this, of course, that's absurd - but consider it). Take children. A lot of children - even all the children, if you wish - from infancy. Raise them around guns. Have guns around, talk about them and use them as though they were an everyday object such as a carpet, or a hammer. It's a tool, simply something that exists, and has its own use. I won't say everyone will like them, but I'm pretty sure damn near everyone will just accept that they're a hunk of metal and wood (or plastic).
Now fill a shopping mall with these people, and walk in there with a gun on your hip. How many do you think are going to panic?

The problem is with the attitude of the people, the masses collectively. I don't think anyone here can say that they like this response (people getting hysterical when they see a gun, LEOs who don't know the law because it's never used, etc.) Some say we won't lose our rights if we don't exercise them - but we have. We've already lost part of this right - and not just in the courts, but in the courtroom of the public.

The only way I can see to regain this right is to use it. If you can come up with a better way, then let me know. Until then I cannot think of a single way to desensitize the masses to the point where it should be - that they don't care, it's just another thing on your belt.

 

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

All I know is that if I was planning to pay a 'visit' to a clerk at the local Shop-N-Rob, those with a visible threat to me from receiving my payoff will be on my highest priority list. The visible presence of a gun delegates a swift promotion to 'numero uno'. Now one could you argue that having a visible gun on one's hip will be an open deterrent to such behavior, but last time I checked crackheads and meth-addicts don't think things in the most logical of terms.

 

[BlackBearME]

All I know is that if I was planning to pay a 'visit' to a clerk at the local Shop-N-Rob, those with a visible threat to me from receiving my payoff will be on my highest priority list. The visible presence of a gun delegates a swift promotion to 'numero uno'. Now one could you argue that having a visible gun on one's hip will be an open deterrent to such behavior, but last time I checked crackheads and meth-addicts don't think things in the most logical of terms.

Maybe. It's a possibility, and you might be right.
However, plenty of people have admitted (in this thread and others) to OC-ing at least infrequently, and one person indicated he did so 24/7. So, while a small percentage, there's still quite a few people doing it. I have yet to hear a single report of an OC-er having been the first victim while standing quietly in line.

The problem with the scenario is, as Werewolf alluded to above, most criminals aren't going in to knock over a store with the intent of killing people. They're going there because they want money/goods for free. Werewolf put it better than I could, and it bears repeating:

Add in that the penalties for murdering someone while commiting a felony robbery are exponentially higher than not and the risk factor to the mugger is even greater. Again muggers and robbers aren't interested in that.

The only thing I can add to that is that the police are much likely to mount a higher/longer/more intensive chase and investigation into a murder/multiple murder than they are into an armed robbery where the guy stole $100 from the cash register.

 

[oda226]

Everytime I enter a restaurant in Virginia, I must OC even though I have a CCW permit. I eat out on a regular basis...

GOV. KAINE SUPPORTS OPEN CARRY!!!

 

[PennsyPlinker]

All I know is that if I was planning to pay a 'visit' to a clerk at the local Shop-N-Rob, those with a visible threat to me from receiving my payoff will be on my highest priority list.

Dr, I am quoting you, but this is meant for all who have expressed this opinion. Please, please, PLEASE, one of you, some of you, maybe ALL of you:

Show me some statistics, heck show me some anecdotal evidence that this happens! If this type of behavior were happening, we would see it all the time. How many times do you think miscreants enter stores only to find an LEO in there. How many criminals continue their crime by shooting the officer first and then proceeding to rob the place?

Huh??? HUH!?!

I have just proposed an argument from silence. Know why? Because there isn't any evidence that people are running around shooting OC'ers here, there, or anywhere! So the conclusion HAS to be that OC prevents crime. If it didn't, why do cops carry and wear uniforms? VISIBLE DETERRENT, that's why. The average bad guy is not some insidious James Bond type super villain with plans and schemes, and all sorts of diabolical abilities. They are stupid, self absorbed, incompetent bumblers who never seem to even think beyond:

store+money=drugs for me

regardless of the prospect of being caught or killed or both.

They are looking for fast easy work, not to shoot up the place and THEN take the money. And for those few who do shoot up the place, they usually do it poorly, in the heat of as much adrenaline as the rest of us would be experiencing.

How many bad guys are robbing gun shops with the people in them? How many are taking on armored car guards, robbing police stations, etc? NONE. Or at least, very very few. Usually the stupidest of the lot too.

And buck00, I don't know where in PA you live, but it sure as heck ain't lower Silesia, unless my map is out of date. But I live just outside of Allentown, which is the third largest population center in the state. I OC here more and more all the time, including Allentown. I OCed in south Philly last week. Is that a large enough eastern city for you?

 

[grog18b]

Well... I say, that, since it is a right, you can choose either method of carrying. It's like arguing over being a Republican or Democrat. People choose which way they carry based on personal preference. Me personally, I prefer to carry concealed, as I desire a bit of the element of surprise on my side. I also don't like any sort of attention, so I prefer to keep my piece covered. If someone likes to carry openly, that's fine for them. It's not my place to tell someone else that it is "right" or wrong. It is like being Catholic or Baptist. Personal choice. Nothing wrong with either, if that's what you believe, and if that's the way you choose to exercise your right.

 

[AntiqueCollector]

I open carry when it's hot out. No sense in wearing heavy clothing to hide my gun. Nothing says "carrying a gun" like a person wearing heavy clothing in hot weather anyways...

 

[PershingRiflesC-7]

This is the reason that we will never win all of our rights back without bloodshed. Because the gun-grabbers all agree on one thing and we can't agree on anything. Some gun owners think it's OK to own pumps and levers but not semi-autos. Some say it's OK to have shotguns but not "black" rifles. Some say 10 round mags are OK but not 30 round mags. Some say it's OK to carry a gun as long we don't offend anyone and others don't care.
AFAIC, it's all or nothing. I'm tired of compromising. It's not working.

Needed to be said again because it is at the root of this entire discussion of CC vs. OC. Freedom allows each individual to make the choice that is appropriate for that individual so long as no harm comes to another individual because of that choice. If you choose OC and I prefer CC, for whatever reason (choose any that have been advanced in this thread), there is no harm by either party for the choices made. It is most distressing that our society has devolved from the grand design of Madison, Jefferson, et al,
to one where many believe that they must ensure that they will not have their delicate sensibilities offended in some manner so a law must be passed to address this potential injury to said sensibilities.

 

[czbegenner]

Louiisiana carry i guess what about after the 19th around 21 of this month,or next what do you think?

 

[Louisiana Carry]

Just let me know.

My phone number is at the bottom of every page of http://atimetobuild.com/

 

[Tom Fury]

Open Carry

Best reason is that maybe some anti's (or ambivalent) would see that gun owners are normal people; we could defeat the stereotype that we're all mass killers looking for a place to reload. Hopefully a few lives would be saved by the deterrence (or active interference) provided by the presence of those who carry normally and society would have to do a rethink.

If you don't exercise the right, it becomes easier for someone to make the argument that you really don't need it, instead of perceiving it as a valuable freedom that shouldn't be interfered with; Heres' to it being perceived as a normal part of American life. A value, not a convenience.

Cheers, TF

 

[WayneConrad]

Tom Fury, That's exactly what I'm trying for.

Sat in a haircutter's chair yesterday, me and my sidearm. Made pleasant conversation. Left a nice cash tip. I wish for her to remember that I was well dressed, polite, and left behind nothing but a somewhat excessive amount of cash ($5 tip for a $12 haircut).

There's the oft quoted ballot box, soap box, and the ammo box. And the somewhat forgotten cash box. When shop keepers lobby or vote on another gun rights bill, will they think of us as scary bad guys from Hollywood movies? Or will they remember us as actual people with fistfulls of cash?

Or will they not know us from Adam, since we were hiding our rights?

I suspect that shop keepers are more likely to end up in--and lobby--your state legislature--than are other citizens. They have pull. These are people you want on your side.

 

[mnw42]

I some times OC or at least "casulally" ccw when I am going to and from the range (were I am an RO and do OC), camping, etc. I will sometimes stop at a deli on the way for breakfast, around the corner to pick up lunch, or at the store on my way home. I've never had a problem, but these are places I frequent and they know me. If I have reason to go someplace crowded or unfamiliar, in fact most of the time, I'll throw a shirt or jacket over everything as to not draw any unwanted attention until I get to were I'm going. I've been pulled over with guns in the back seat and that has never caused me a problem.

I also live in a semi-rural/suburban area, but more and more yuppies and liberals are moving in from NJ & NY so I wonder how long it will be before some one freaks out

I am not terribly concerned about somebody trying to snatch my gun. I find that I'm more attentive to my surroundings when I carry (CC or OC), and I do practice retention from time to time. Additionally, most of my holster hold the gun close to the body or I often will us a flap-type military holster when I'm at the range or in the woods.

 

[Dahwg]

For those looking for a good open carry holster that does not look like a duty holster, check out Blackhawk's cqc (Close Quarters Concealable) Serpa offerings. They come as a set with both paddle and belt configuration, also adjustable cant and retention. They are supposedly Level II holsters (though there is some controversy concerning that). http://www.blackhawk.com/product1.asp?P=4105&C=C2091

Many of the people that I know OC use this holster (myself included).

 

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

Dr, I am quoting you, but this is meant for all who have expressed this opinion. Please, please, PLEASE, one of you, some of you, maybe ALL of you:

Show me some statistics, heck show me some anecdotal evidence that this happens! If this type of behavior were happening, we would see it all the time. How many times do you think miscreants enter stores only to find an LEO in there. How many criminals continue their crime by shooting the officer first and then proceeding to rob the place?

Huh??? HUH!?!

I have just proposed an argument from silence. Know why? Because there isn't any evidence that people are running around shooting OC'ers here, there, or anywhere! So the conclusion HAS to be that OC prevents crime. If it didn't, why do cops carry and wear uniforms? VISIBLE DETERRENT, that's why. The average bad guy is not some insidious James Bond type super villain with plans and schemes, and all sorts of diabolical abilities. They are stupid, self absorbed, incompetent bumblers who never seem to even think beyond:

store+money=drugs for me

regardless of the prospect of being caught or killed or both.

They are looking for fast easy work, not to shoot up the place and THEN take the money. And for those few who do shoot up the place, they usually do it poorly, in the heat of as much adrenaline as the rest of us would be experiencing.

How many bad guys are robbing gun shops with the people in them? How many are taking on armored car guards, robbing police stations, etc? NONE. Or at least, very very few. Usually the stupidest of the lot too.

I'll give you anecdotal evidence, Plinker: down the street in my small city of ~35,000 people, a bank robber decided to waltz in to the Bank of America and shoot the place up.

Who do you think would be on the target list? I know:

A) Security Guard
B) Anyone who visibly poses as a threat

In this scenario, there was no one there that threatened him. This did not stop him from discharging his weapon:

http://www.nbc11.com/news/15538823/detail.html

Police said that the robber then walked toward the bank exit doors, turned and fired the weapon.

Police said that one of the rounds from the handgun struck the floor and hit the ceiling. The bullet fragmented, striking a female bank customer in the lower leg. The woman sustained minor injuries and was treated at the scene, police said.

Open-carry removes the elements of surprise and makes you a target. With CC you can quickly reverse you being an 'unarmed' target-you can't really stop an armed gunman from seeing that you have a gun and not have him specifically target you as a result.

And you open-carrying would not be a target of this exactly why again?

And for your analogy on police officers being deterrents, that they are: but they also get shot and killed despite having a badge, wearing a vest, and having more things on their belt than you do. They are already willing to shoot at peace officers. Again, what makes you open-carrying so special?

 

[WayneConrad]

Let's cut the tactical argument off right at the knees.

Open carry isn't about--or shouldn't be about--being safer from crime. It should be about preservation and restoration of your rights.

 

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

Let's cut the tactical argument off right at the knees.

Open carry isn't about--or shouldn't be about--being safer from crime. It should be about preservation and restoration of your rights.

If the 'preservation of your rights' is solely dependent on whether or not your jacket is long enough to cover your holster, the right people aren't in office in the first place.

 

[Louisiana Carry]

+1 Wayne.

Also, I would add- certainly there are criminals who would shoot an armed person first. Heck, my wife's uncle is one of them (is currently serving probably the rest of his life in the pen for knocking over an armored car, and that was not his first big heist- a cop got shot in that process). HOWEVER- we are talking about a SMALL percentage of criminals. A criminal like that is NOT likely to hit a stop and rob- we are talking about the hardcore lifers here, for the most part. I conceal in banks and such, and that stands a very reasonable chance of cutting down on that possibility.

I just don't think that the "that'll never happen" OR the "that'll definitely happen" folks are being completely fair. Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely in CERTAIN scenarios? Yes. Is OC more likely to deter 95% of criminals? I think so. Look at it reasonably. It is neither likely nor impossible.

However, desensitizing the general populace is a goal that is worthwhile for many of us, and that is something that is VERY likely to come of open carrying.

I am an RKBA evangelist. Turning people on to guns and carrying them is worth the hassle. To me, the 2A is black and white. I devote myself to it in every way I see available. Most people are not like that, I know. I am not faulting them for it, but to those that see it mainly as means to hunt or provide for their own personal safety, they will not understand why I take the positions I take. To me, abridging the RKBA is a blow to the very heart of what form of republican government this Nation and my State have remaining. I battle those abridgments at every turn, as best as I am able, out of my own sense of patriotism and civic duty. I will continue to open carry, I am sure, even if I were to ever run into trouble.

 

[JesseL]

In this scenario, there was no one there that threatened him. This did not stop him from discharging his weapon:

Exactly!

If the robber had felt threatened by someone carrying at the bank, there's a much greater likelihood that the robber would have turned around and left to find a different bank, than shooting the armed citizen.