Is Open Carry Practical
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WayneConrad
Member
This is, on the surface, an alarming statement.cowssurf said:
I'm assuming you've made a mistake, an honest mistake in punctuation or wording, or that I've made an honest mistake in comprehension. As I read it, you are saying that it should be alright to outlaw open carry anywhere that conceal carry has been made lawful.
Is that correct?
jahwarrior
Member
open carry has its place, as does concealed carry. one is not superior to the other, just different. i open carry very rarely, and only when i'm with my family. when i'm on my own, i'm CCing all day long. in the summer, only when it's really, really hot, i'll OC. it all depends on the situation.
Mainsail
Member
cowssurf said:
It can? Is this something you've experienced or something you just dreamed up (or just diarrhea of the mouth)? If there isn’t a panic in downtown Seattle, an enclave of bleeding hearts and whiners, it just isn’t going to happen.
Louisiana Carry
Member
Sheesh. Are you serious, cowssurf??
Stuff like that makes me:
Stuff like that makes me:
Today, 04:58 PM #105
Mainsail wrote
Good Grief !
I'm opposed to open carry in urban (incorporated even) areas. I've been carrying a revolver out in the county, while fishing and had a deputy come by because 'soccer mom' was freaked out I had a gun. I figure she must have been a little paniced when she saw the gun when she and her kids hiked down stream.
Mainsail wrote
Good Grief !
I'm opposed to open carry in urban (incorporated even) areas. I've been carrying a revolver out in the county, while fishing and had a deputy come by because 'soccer mom' was freaked out I had a gun. I figure she must have been a little paniced when she saw the gun when she and her kids hiked down stream.
Mainsail
Member
One soccer mom is a long way from a “public panic” by any definition. The radio play of War of the Worlds caused a public panic. Godzilla appearing over the Tokyo skyline caused a public panic.
If you don’t want to carry openly; don’t. Basing your carry method on hyperbole and faulty logic is silly.
If you don’t want to carry openly; don’t. Basing your carry method on hyperbole and faulty logic is silly.
WayneConrad
Member
Self defense is a right you're born with, same as the skin on your face. No different.
I'll think it's alright to hide my sidearm because it scares someone the same day it's alright to ask a black to paint his face white because his dark skin alarms a racist.
I'll think it's alright to hide my sidearm because it scares someone the same day it's alright to ask a black to paint his face white because his dark skin alarms a racist.
Treo
member
Is There Some Good Reason I Should Expose Myself To This Hassle?
QUOTE: "I've been carrying a revolver out in the county, while fishing and had a deputy come by because 'soccer mom' was freaked out I had a gun."
That is the reason I don't open carry. I don't need the hassles in my life that one freaked out soccer mom can cause.
I don't need to be walking down the street & have 3 black & whites surround me because someone called in a man W/ a gun complaint.
And (God forbid) should I ever have to actually use my weapon in self defense, I do not want to have a list of man W/ a gun complaints following me.
If OC & being an activist for RKBA is your thing , by all means go for it. I will be more than happy to read the threads you post here to tell us all about your hassles W/ the law, & how you've been harassed.
Bottom line, my life is easier when I limit my interaction W/ the local authorities & I engage every leagal measure at my disposal ( including not deliberately making myself a target) to do so. I see no good reason to hand some random stranger a ticket to F W/ my life
QUOTE: "I've been carrying a revolver out in the county, while fishing and had a deputy come by because 'soccer mom' was freaked out I had a gun."
That is the reason I don't open carry. I don't need the hassles in my life that one freaked out soccer mom can cause.
I don't need to be walking down the street & have 3 black & whites surround me because someone called in a man W/ a gun complaint.
And (God forbid) should I ever have to actually use my weapon in self defense, I do not want to have a list of man W/ a gun complaints following me.
If OC & being an activist for RKBA is your thing , by all means go for it. I will be more than happy to read the threads you post here to tell us all about your hassles W/ the law, & how you've been harassed.
Bottom line, my life is easier when I limit my interaction W/ the local authorities & I engage every leagal measure at my disposal ( including not deliberately making myself a target) to do so. I see no good reason to hand some random stranger a ticket to F W/ my life
Louisiana Carry
Member
So basically all the .gov needs to do is trouble us out of our rights?
PennsyPlinker
Member
Dr. Peter Venkman said:
Please, Venkman (I'll call you Venkman since you seem to want to stick to "surnames"), please, tell me this is not the best you can do. If this is your idea of anecdotal evidence of the extra danger of open carry, I am going to have to
So some guy comes in and robs the bank. On the way out, he "shoots the place up". I wonder how many rounds he shot?
One round ricochets off the floor, then the ceiling, fragments, and causes a minor injury in one person. That's it!?! 
Yeah, that's bad, but it hardly rises to the level of an e-ville man targeting those people carrying weapons. If the best he could do is shoot the floor, he probably would have wet himself and fainted if he saw a real man carrying a gun! 
It sounds like there was no one with a gun period! He shot the floor! Does this constitute marksmanship, or a cool collected criminal dispensing with those opposed to his e-ville intent? It sounds to me like it was someone scared so stiff it was all he could do to hit the floor. But hey, if this is the best you can do... I am in more danger from Jersey drivers on the road every day than a criminal of this caliber.Dr. Peter Venkman said:
And like WayneConrad says, it really isn't about tactical. It is about rights. If you really think that the scenario you have described is a good reason not to open carry, then you might want to seriously think about not carrying anything at all except a cell phone. Who knows what the bad guy might do to you if he discovers you were hiding a gun from him?
In fact, you might even want to skip the phone! You would surely be targeted for termination if he thought you had called his crime in to the ever vigilant police in your area! JesseL
Member
Hook686 said:
Some people are offended and upset that you own guns at all. Some people are offended by your religion. Some people are offended by your political views. How far will you go to placate them all?
Rights are not granted on the condition that their exercise doesn't upset anyone. Someone being upset by the sight of a citizen legally bearing a firearm doesn't deserve any more placation than someone offended by the sight of a mixed race couple in public, or someone alarmed by a man wearing a turban in an airport.
They're all bigots and deserve to be ignored at least, but preferably educated.
treo said:
If you've been paying attention, far more posters here (myself included) have posted about the complete lack of reaction to their open carry from the police and public.
I can respect your choice not to OC, but you should show a little more appreciation and a little less disdain for the people who are out there making sure your rights aren't lost.
Desertscout
Member
We just got back from eating dinner at a very nice Mexican place down the road a little ways. As always, we were OC'ing (myself and my shop manager) and two State cops came in sat down at the table right next to us.
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Are ya'll expecting a dramatic end to this story?
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Sorry, we just nodded at the cops and bid them good day, ate our meal and walked out.... like always...
I've been carrying openly every single day that the sun comes up for the last 10 years in this state alone. There were other states before NM but that's a different story.
As of yet, I have not had a single incident of any description here and only one in other states.
There is so much conjecture and BS in these OC threads sometimes that it is sickening.
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Are ya'll expecting a dramatic end to this story?
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Sorry, we just nodded at the cops and bid them good day, ate our meal and walked out.... like always...
I've been carrying openly every single day that the sun comes up for the last 10 years in this state alone. There were other states before NM but that's a different story.
As of yet, I have not had a single incident of any description here and only one in other states.
There is so much conjecture and BS in these OC threads sometimes that it is sickening.
Treo
member
A Little Less Disdain
QUOTE: " but you should show a little more appreciation and a little less disdain for the people who are out there making sure your rights aren't lost"
He said disdainfully.
QUOTE: " but you should show a little more appreciation and a little less disdain for the people who are out there making sure your rights aren't lost"
He said disdainfully.
JesseL
Member
treo said:
We're both on the same side in the RKBA fight, but you seem intent on disparaging the wisdom and motives of the people working on the front lines of the battle for the hearts and minds of the public.
BTW, I just picked up some milk and eggs at Safeway while OC'ing. No panic and no cops called; just an easy, friendly transaction.
Old Dog
Member
Few firearms issues seem to polarize our community as much as the open-carry question.
I note that many hereabouts seem to get a little ornery with each other when there's not immediate agreement with one's own opinion.
Wasn't the orginal thread asking about practicality of open carry? Yet, everyone gets bogged down in the question of where open carry stands relative to our right to bear arms -- which still doesn't answer the question, is it practical?
The answer, as I see it, is yes ... in some places, at some times. And no, never in many places, and never at any time.
Those who live in someplace such as Arizona, for example, shouldn't presume open carry will ever be regarded in the same light by the general populace in Illinois or Connecticut ... But even in the same regions, however, we may have different types of encounters and experiences. We have a local open carry group in my area, and many of those folks have had entirely different experiences while OC'ing than I. I'm not gonna get involved competitive urination with Mainsail, for example, even though his open carry experiences seem far more successful than mine, and those of some of my friends. The OC experience can differ dramatically even in the same park or shopping center in my county, depending on which law enforcement agency notices Man with Gun & No Badge Visible.
An example of the silly comparisons being drawn:
I note that many hereabouts seem to get a little ornery with each other when there's not immediate agreement with one's own opinion.
Wasn't the orginal thread asking about practicality of open carry? Yet, everyone gets bogged down in the question of where open carry stands relative to our right to bear arms -- which still doesn't answer the question, is it practical?
The answer, as I see it, is yes ... in some places, at some times. And no, never in many places, and never at any time.
Those who live in someplace such as Arizona, for example, shouldn't presume open carry will ever be regarded in the same light by the general populace in Illinois or Connecticut ... But even in the same regions, however, we may have different types of encounters and experiences. We have a local open carry group in my area, and many of those folks have had entirely different experiences while OC'ing than I. I'm not gonna get involved competitive urination with Mainsail, for example, even though his open carry experiences seem far more successful than mine, and those of some of my friends. The OC experience can differ dramatically even in the same park or shopping center in my county, depending on which law enforcement agency notices Man with Gun & No Badge Visible.
An example of the silly comparisons being drawn:
Uh, that's a bit of a stretch. Perhaps in some areas, some citizens might immediately harken back to thoughts of recent mass shootings in Virginia, Utah or Indiana, because to them, a gun is a gun is a gun, which means -- bad thing if not carried by a uniformed cop. While some might be offended by the sight of a mixed-race couple (still, in this day and age), you can hardly blame the non-gun soccer moms or clueless, insulated-from-real-life liberal college professor types ... Should you start equating racism with how folks choose to bear arms, you may get more arguments.
WayneConrad
Member
Old Dog, Well said.
I don't want to blame anyone. Just educate them.
Hate can't cure fear. Knowledge, I hope, can.
I don't want to blame anyone. Just educate them.
Hate can't cure fear. Knowledge, I hope, can.
Treo
member
Arizona has some of the coolest gunlaws in the world.
Unfortunately I live in Colorado Springs, a place where the local police seem to be decidedly against citizen gun ownership.
I'm sorry, but the sum total of my 42 years experience is that the world is a much nicer place when you MYOB. Thus, I go out of my way not to draw attention to myself. If my openly carrying a fire arm makes some random stranger ( or worse some random cop) feel that they are justified in intruding on my privacy I want no part of it.
Open carry breaks my own personal first rule blend in there fore I don't do it.
What upsets my is when some participants in this thread presume to disdain (to use your word) those of us who choose to pass unnoticed as some kind of "traitors to the cause"
Unfortunately I live in Colorado Springs, a place where the local police seem to be decidedly against citizen gun ownership.
I'm sorry, but the sum total of my 42 years experience is that the world is a much nicer place when you MYOB. Thus, I go out of my way not to draw attention to myself. If my openly carrying a fire arm makes some random stranger ( or worse some random cop) feel that they are justified in intruding on my privacy I want no part of it.
Open carry breaks my own personal first rule blend in there fore I don't do it.
What upsets my is when some participants in this thread presume to disdain (to use your word) those of us who choose to pass unnoticed as some kind of "traitors to the cause"
JesseL
Member
treo said:
I do not disdain your personal decision not to OC. Open carry isn't for everyone. You have every right not to open carry, and I can appreciate your desire to avoid confrontation.
I simply don't like the implications you've made about the motives of OC'ers, and the value (or lack thereof) OC as an educational tool to the public.
I open carry because it's comfortable for me (socially and physically), and I think it's important to build and maintain a public image of gun toters as unthreatening and respectable everyday folks.
I want other gun owners to realize that the public doesn't have to be scared of people with guns and the social climate I enjoy in AZ is possible elsewhere if we work at it.
WayneConrad
Member
treo, While I do sincerely believe that open carry is in my circumstance, in my state, a valuable political strategy, I can't say that's the same for everyone. What Old Dog said is indeed true. And I apologize for sidetracking your thread from your original question. You asked about tactics--your reason for carrying--and I talked mostly about politics--my reason for carrying. It took someone else to point it out.
stevereno1
Member
open carry is a great option if you live in a place where the sight of a armed person doesn't cause fear, or panic (most big cities in the U.S.). Open carry is a big time crime deterrant. I believe that concealed carry is the best option for me, as I don't like to draw attention to myself. Open carry sends a message to the thugs, but also sends a message to anyone else around you that may fear a person wearing a firearm. My 2 cents.
stevereno1
Member
I pay no mind to those who choose to carry openly. I don't fear them, or even mention in any way that I appreciate them, I just act as if they were carrying a cell phone.
czbegenner
Member
Louisiana carry you live where i live
what a small world.Yea man we will
hook up and start going to the ranges.
what a small world.Yea man we will
hook up and start going to the ranges.
Today, 12:15 AM #120
JesseL wrote:
What you do not seem to understand is that people with guns do scare me, and I carry a gun. I do not know you from the 'Waco in Waco'. Your logic stikes you as your logic ... while to me your reality comes across as personal opinion. I know I do not want to be part of the background when someone carrying a gun gets pissed, draws and starts shooting to protect some real, or imagine piece of property, or ego (refer to LEO that shot 3 in resaurant posted here). I read about those folks on this very site.
As I said, I'm ok with me carrying, just not with you carrying.
In California I fear there are far more 'soccer moms' than 'rednecks'. Someone here seemed to suggest going with the flow and staying out of the limelight. Sounded like good advice to me. Personally here in California open carry is not very practical. I still do it when I'm out in the rural areas, but am also aware I can be confronted all too often this way, and would just as soon keep it concealed.
Different stokes for different folks. Good luck in convincing 'soccer mom' that a gun is ok to own, carry, use. I doubt you will suceed, no matter how right you claim to be.
JesseL wrote:
What you do not seem to understand is that people with guns do scare me, and I carry a gun. I do not know you from the 'Waco in Waco'. Your logic stikes you as your logic ... while to me your reality comes across as personal opinion. I know I do not want to be part of the background when someone carrying a gun gets pissed, draws and starts shooting to protect some real, or imagine piece of property, or ego (refer to LEO that shot 3 in resaurant posted here). I read about those folks on this very site.
As I said, I'm ok with me carrying, just not with you carrying.
In California I fear there are far more 'soccer moms' than 'rednecks'. Someone here seemed to suggest going with the flow and staying out of the limelight. Sounded like good advice to me. Personally here in California open carry is not very practical. I still do it when I'm out in the rural areas, but am also aware I can be confronted all too often this way, and would just as soon keep it concealed.
Different stokes for different folks. Good luck in convincing 'soccer mom' that a gun is ok to own, carry, use. I doubt you will suceed, no matter how right you claim to be.
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Aren't you a member at opencarry.org ? Because I know for a fact that an instance of a person being assaulted and their open carry firearm being stolen has been posted there repeatedly. As far as it's being common, I don't think anyone's made that claim. Since OC isn't exactly common, it's not very reasonable to think that anything involving OC would be common either.teknoid said:
How do criminals know about CC? Perhaps because when CC laws are passed they are trumpeted on the front page of newspapers and decried on the evening news?BlackBearMe said:
Perhaps because criminals keep abreast of developments that could render them dead?
Let's not insult each others' intelligence here.
Unless they're after his firearm or some other highly desirable item the victim is known to have. This can happen and HAS happened.Werewolf said:
Except that gun stores are robbed in spite of the fact that gun store employees are almost invariably armed--usually openly. Likewise armored cars, banks with armed security guards, etc.Werewolf said:
Some aren't. Some obviously don't care. The idea that a displayed firearm is a deterrent to crime is generally but definitely not universally true.Werewolf said:
Openly carrying people are assaulted all the time--they're called police officers. Second, there is at least one documented case (no, I don't have more, I can't spend all my time searching the web--besides there aren't likely to be many--there simply aren't that many non-LEOs OC'ing in the U.S.) of a non-LEO who was OC'ing being assaulted and having his weapon stolen. Ask one of the many opencarry.org members posting on this thread for the link.Werewolf said:
Gun shops are robbed. Armored cars are robbed. I suppose if there were a lot of cash at police stations they would be robbed too. As far as the IQ of the criminals who target armed persons, you may be right. But as far as I can see it's a small comfort to know that the person who attacked you is an idiot.Pennysplinker said:
Well, I DO. I think OC should be legal everywhere. That doesn't mean I would take advantage of it except in unusual circumstances, and it definitely doesn't mean I believe it's the best option in terms of practicality or tacticality, but I DO think it should be legal.Desertscout said:
HOWEVER, I do get a bit cranky when the OC'ers start pulling the "if you don't OC or don't constantly and vigorously campaign for the expansion of OC rights, you're a constitution hater" gambit. It also ticks me off just a bit that most OC'ers refuse to understand or acknowledge that OC, even where legal, is not treated uniformly. And that not everyone can afford to be arrested in order to make a point. (Yes, I know, that means those folks aren't patriots--if they were they'd go ahead and risk arrest even if arrest brings the possibility losing their job and depriving their family of their primary means of income as well as their healthcare benefits, etc. No, I'm not just being melodramatic, people have been arrested for legally OC'ing, and certain types of employers are VERY picky about what happens to their employees.)
That's because one of the primary strategies of OC "pushers" is to try to shame those who don't fully agree or fully cooperate with them by implying they aren't patriotic enough or don't believe in freedom enough. Which is my primary heartburn with these types of discussions. It's not enough to state that you believe it should be legal, if you won't agree to "join up" and be an aggressive OC pusher or OC practicer then you're just another one of the sheeple. Think I'm exaggerating? A comment I made on TFL was used on an open carry forum (that I'm not a member of) as evidence that I was basically anti-OC in spite of the fact that the text they quoted from my post included a sentence, UNDERLINED, no less, that said: "For what it's worth, I think open carry should be legal. It's just not an option I would choose to exercise"
Can OC be a positive influence for gun rights? Yes, in some cases.
Can it be a negative influence for gun rights? Yes, that's also a possibility.
Can it be done with impunity? Surely, in some cases.
Does it render the OC'er immune from crime? No.
Is it a better tactical option than CC? Perhaps sometimes but not usually.
Is it an EASIER option than CC? Probably nearly always.
Can it target the OC'er for crime--it has at least once.
Can it target the OC'er for LE harassment or arrest even where legal? Sure can.
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