Is shot placement everything

[fastbolt]

Another vote of agreement for the "Other Stuff" category.

Lots of folks seem to desire to ignore or deny the importance of the influences and factors to be found in this catch-all category.

Here's another thought to add to the mix ...

Look up what happens physiologically when the hormonal fear response occurs, and as the pulse rate sky rockets. (Meaning not just from physical exertion.) Freeze, flight or fight response causes some unwanted consequences that training can help mitigate, if done properly, but there are NO guarantees.

Then, consider how a review of agency-involved shooting incidents, reported done by a large state agency some years ago, indicated that something like not quite 65% of the reviewed shootings involved movement on the part of the attackers and officers during the incidents.

 

[Sam1911]

but a hit with a .44 Mag beats four hits with a .22lr.

Exactly!

And 6 hits with .380 is roughly equivalent to 5 hits with a 9mm.

10 hits with a .40 is about the same as 7 with a .45 ACP, but is closer to 6 of 10mm.

The exchange rate from 9mm Makarov (9x18) and .40 S&W is usually 7:3, but that drops to 7:2.25 for .45ACP.

Now comparing .32 Auto to .460 Rowland gets a little tricky, especially as the rate isn't linear. It actually works out to 20:4.375...weird, eh?

Now all this has to be then applied across the shot-placement matrix. Equivalent hits get equivalent values, of course, but comparing "good" hits with one round to "marginal" hits with another require the application of a multiplier. So you take the 10:7 rate of .40 S&W:.45ACP, for example, and if the .40 hit is a gut shot, wheras the .45 hit the CNS, you multiply the conversaion rate by 6.9587 for a true corrected conversion value of...

(See appendix 7X-1 for the apparent muzzle-diameter psychological deterrent factors.)


Man, this stuff is complicated!

 

[Panzerschwein]

^^^

LOL! So true! Somebody had the whole "but a hit with a .44 Mag beats four hits with a .22lr" thing as their sig line, and I asked myself "come on now, how do you quantify that?"

It's just silly!

 

[Hullraiser]

^^^^^^^***
Yes that sounds complicated.
In simpler terms a shot to the thigh by 22 cal is going to sting like the dickens.
Same shot with a 40 ,44 or 45 is going to be much more severe if not crippling IMO.
It seems like I read once though that there were more people killed with a 22 than all other calibers combined.

 

[Hometeached1]

You need to teach a class on that Sam, but you forgot the most important one, .38 Super vs .22 TCM!

I have that as a sig line as a kind of Hyperbole, to show just how silly the "caliber wars" can be.

And for more "good measure" in the words of James Yeager "All guns should be Glocks and all Glocks should be 9mm."

 

[Sam1911]

LOL! Too complicated for me!

 

[Hometeached1]

LOL! Too complicated for me!

Tell me about it, because the .22 TCM is a necked case so you have to remember to convert then multiply.

 

[the_skunk]

Getting the gun out fast, without shooting yourself, and with no jams is 90% of the battle. It's just a matter of going to the range and practice practice practice.

I carry a 32 seecamp, and a Sig 232. Both are DA/SA with no safetys, and my target is 7 feet away. I am a great believer in situational awareness (avoiding a bad position)

 

[natman]

Well, just replace .32 with .38. But the idea is to get the most powerful gun/load you can SHOOT WELL and conceal.

And it's that 'SHOOT WELL' that matters most.

Absolutely. And as I said, unless you have some physical limitation, you should be able to shoot a 38 Special or larger plenty well enough.

 

[Hullraiser]

And for more "good measure" in the words of James Yeager "All guns should be Glocks and all Glocks should be 9mm."

Oh shoot, I think I just threw up a little in my throat !

 

[Hometeached1]

Oh shoot, I think I just threw up a little in my throat !

About the Glocks or the 9mm?

 

[Hullraiser]

Both, but mostly Glocks

 

[Blue Duck]

I think I will lean towards the thinking of those who do this kind of a thing for a living. Use enough gun.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Are there really people naïve enough to believe that they will good enough shots under extreme stress that you will overcome any stress and hit your target with supreme accuracy and that you will be fine with a .22 when most .380 hollow point rounds don't expand reliably in gelatin with denim?

Are there people naïve enough to believe that all rounds always expand or that expansion is the critical factor?

 

[gym]

I think that even more interesting is how different people react under fire. Some forget everything they knew, and others can focus and make the shot the way they practiced it.
Unfortunately it's impossible to tell what someone is going to do until they do it.
If you are the type of person who panics easily, and is very nervous, you need a different type of training than someone who maintains their steadiness in an emergency.
Just like Firefighters, who run into burning buildings, some can't be taught to do that and wash out, it isn't the same for everyone.
A good hunter or teacher does not necessarily make a good combat professional.

 

[BSA1]

Regarding the "other stuff" can we put to bed the biggest myth of all;

The One Shot Stop.

 

[481]

Regarding the "other stuff" can we put to bed the biggest myth of all;

The One Shot Stop.

I am always surprised by the longevity of that concept and the 'study' underlying it -proof that if you repeat something often enough people will begin to believe it.

 

[ugaarguy]

This edition of the shot placement vs. penetration vs. expansion vs. cartridge x is a death ray has turned into running in circles as these discussions usually do. Let's let this one rest in peace.