Is the new colt m4 any better than the rest of the milspecs out there?

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KodeFore

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A LGG has the Colt m4 with magpul stock on sale for 1100$ over always respected Colt, I think the m16A1 I carried in the late 80s was colt but I don't remember for sure. I've heard that now CZ owns colt. I think CZ has a good reputation so that's not necessarily a bad thing. However, Mack on Military arms channel claims that most of the parts on the new guns are outsourced, making the quality really no better than anything else out there? ( Currently I have a basic Delton I recently rebuilt, I set it up with a mid length upper and a carry handle, it reminds me of the CAR 15 I used to see some of the SF guys carry when I was stationed at Ft Bragg years back ) with the new colts are you really just paying a premium for the famous roll mark?
 
No inside knowledge on the new Colt, but two notes:
  • Colt never made all of their own parts. I mean, of course. They don't have a forge, so bought those and machined the receivers. They never made pins and springs. They never made furniture. And so on. Yes, even back in the good old days of American Manufacturing they outsourced a lot. The newer we get the less they made for specialized parts and generally as it got cheaper to buy at least some thing from good suppliers (or bad?) who do it cheaper.
  • Not sure anyone makes "all" their own gun, but many of the other good brands do tell you what their parts are, at least if you call and ask. I am vaguely unhappy with spending good money for a question mark.
That is a surprisingly decent price for a top-tier maker if it has the configuration you want. So you question is if they are a top tier maker still.
 
Mil-spec is made by the lowest bidder. There is nothing spectacular about it being "mil-spec". There is also nothing Colt does that is worth the premium they charge for their guns and parts. If you're willing to do the research you can build an AR with equal or better parts and do so with a nice cost savings. There is nothing wrong with Colt AR but there is also little to justify their cost. I own a bunch of AR's only one of which was bought as an assembled gun, the rest were built from parts. Not one Colt part anywhere.

*full disclosure I am a Colt hater.
 
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Don't have the exact figure, so don't take this as Gospel, but 90% or more of all forged lowers and uppers are made in 3 or 4 foundries.
Most BCGs are made by 3 or 4 manufacturers.
Only a few players make CHF barrels, and so on.

Nothing fancy or innovative about a modern Colt AR, but nothing to complain about, IMO. Just as good as a PSA ;)

Disclaimer: I don't make money writing this post. Wouldn't say the same about MAC's videos.
 
Colt’s claim to AR fame came from making Mil Spec and also very close to Mil Spec weaponry for the military and civilian populace. Well, that and their name. Whether it’s warranted or not, Colt’s name does seem to command a premium.

In a nutshell, Mil Spec is made per the Technical Data Package (tdp). It doesn’t mean it’s the best or the worst, just that it’s built and some parts are independently tested (barrel and bolts) per the specifications laid out.

Some companies build to that, some don’t, and some exceed it.

So far as I know, a Colt 6920 is pretty closely built to that standard (barrel length and select fire capability notwithstanding) if that’s your thing. Or it once was. Probably still is, or close enough to it. I’m no Colt historian or insider expert.

Regarding outsourcing, I’m not aware of any company that produces every single thing, right down to pins and springs, in house. Maybe there are some…. I simply am not aware of it if there are.

And outsourcing doesn’t matter to me personally so long as the parts are decent quality and the rifle is properly assembled.

In short, if you want a Colt or if Mil Spec is important to you (or close to Mil spec) then you would probably be happy with the Colt.

If you simply want an AR that runs well, then yes a Colt will also do that and so will many other non Colt brands.

Good luck with your purchase!
 
I don't know if any AR manufacturer that makes their own springs. Too hard to justify the specialized equipment costs when dedicated sprint manufacturers can make them so cheap.

Same for most of the pins and detents. Hard to justify the Swiss screw machines and the operators that can run them when there are plenty of shops specilizing in those types of parts.

Even handguards and stocks are often outsourced especially molded and extruded parts. Same with bolts and bolt carries due to some of the specialized tools used too make them.

Most AR manufacturers machine uppers and lowers from billets or forgings maybe a few of the other internal parts from castings and maybe barrels, maybe. Most of the work they do is final assembly and packaging.
 
mcb said:
I don't know if any AR manufacturer that makes their own springs. Too hard to justify the specialized equipment costs when dedicated sprint manufacturers can make them so cheap.

Same for most of the pins and detents. Hard to justify the Swiss screw machines and the operators that can run them when there are plenty of shops specilizing in those types of parts.

Even handguards and stocks are often outsourced especially molded and extruded parts. Same with bolts and bolt carries due to some of the specialized tools used too make them.

Most AR manufacturers machine uppers and lowers from billets or forgings maybe a few of the other internal parts from castings and maybe barrels, maybe. Most of the work they do is final assembly and packaging.
Click to expand...
I've heard, not confirmed, but read several places over time, that Midwest makes most of the M LOK and Key LOK handguards for all the big name manufacturers..like PSA, BCM, Giessele, and others. Don't know if that true, but its highly feasible. The equipment to make those can't be cheap, and I can't see every company investing in it..
I know the several "Brand" name handguards I have bought are not all that different from each other, or even from Midwest brand itself. Of coarse, finish is better on some, and features like anti roll set screws and the like also..
 
Megawatt maker said:
I've heard, not confirmed, but read several places over time, that Midwest makes most of the M LOK and Key LOK handguards for all the big name manufacturers..like PSA, BCM, Giessele, and others. Don't know if that true, but its highly feasible. The equipment to make those can't be cheap, and I can't see every company investing in it..
I know the several "Brand" name handguards I have bought are not all that different from each other, or even from Midwest brand itself. Of coarse, finish is better on some, and features like anti roll set screws and the like also..
Click to expand...
Yes, that would not surprise me at all. I know the old Bushmaster and DPMS used Midwest forearms on several of their models.
 
I have been happy with the x2 colts i have owned x1 is a national competition match rifle ,it was my first ar. The 2nd was just a standard ar15 also a good gun worth the price ?The only company that i know of that makes everything in house is Anderson like it or not !I have built many ars on anderson upper and lowers with never a problem .My go to for good quality ar parts is Aero they are great for the $.If you want a Colt buy it ,they are a great name in the industry cant loose i would think. If not build a nice gun for your self.I hope this helps.
 
The Colt M-4s (6920) that I used in my recent career, and that I own (have two) have been solid. Nothing spectacular, flashy or noteworthy, just boring reliability and pretty good accuracy. I've been issued, carrying and shooting Colt M-16s and M-4s for well over 35 years now. No complaints. My H-Bar (pre-ban) is exceptional, but doesn't fall in the category of "new Colt M-4s," obviously...

One of my personal 6920s (this one now sports an ACOG):
rifle.jpg

Note to any non-THR members who may be monitoring this site: this rifle was purchased by Citizen Old Dog before the implementation of the Washington state AWB, 4/25/23 and any standard capacity magazines were also purchased prior to this latest insult to law-abiding firearms owners.
 
Megawatt maker said:
I've heard, not confirmed, but read several places over time, that Midwest makes most of the M LOK and Key LOK handguards for all the big name manufacturers..like PSA, BCM, Giessele, and others. Don't know if that true, but its highly feasible. The equipment to make those can't be cheap, and I can't see every company investing in it..
I know the several "Brand" name handguards I have bought are not all that different from each other, or even from Midwest brand itself. Of coarse, finish is better on some, and features like anti roll set screws and the like also..
Click to expand...
I have heard similar and suspect from what was shared as well as just knowing mfg that it may be a bit like forgings for AR receivers. MI has an in with die makers and extruding plant time (they likely do not OWN an Al extruding plant!) so even if they do not do the machining, are the supplier of extruded float rail handguards for tons of folks, as a service to specs without the customers having to learn die making and stuff.

I have heard of poor MLOK and KMR compliance early on, so it is also reasonably likely they nailed how to do that (maybe even custom machines, people do that) so do at least that part of the machining for some/most of their customers. This would also be super common with similar complexities in totally different industries.


Back to colt: Before they stopped making ARs, their guns were 20-80% more than their configuration should command, even new made ones, just because horse on the side. If prices have settled down and they get a track record of being good, then they may become a suggested maker again. They certainly had their down times (some 90s guns were BAD), and it wasn't really cost that got FN their USG contract.

I'll also warn not to assume someone who had the TDP can and will make (close as can be: not select fire would be out of compliance) "milspec" civilian guns. Unless they say that explicitly and the parts that are so marked get those markings (e.g. barrels) then it's a trust thing and for me, Colt is a "maybe," has to re-earn that trust.
 
Shawn Dodson said:
With Colt, at least you'll know the gas port on the barrel will be the correct diameter and not overgassed.
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Compared to what some civilians like a "mil-spec" AR is purposely over-gassed by a moderate amount. An AR that is moderately over-gassed will be more reliable in adverse conditions (mud, sand etc) than an AR that is tuned to run soft and smooth in normal conditions. Both guns will run great clean and well lubricated but the moderately over-gassed gun will run equally reliable when its dirty enough to stop the soft shooting gun.
 
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mcb said:
Compared to what some civilians like a "mil-spec" AR is purposely over-gassed by a moderate amount. An AR that is moderately over-gassed will be more reliable in adverse conditions (mud, sand etc) than an AR than an AR that is tuned to run soft and smooth in normal conditions. Both guns will run great clean and well lubricated but the moderately over-gassed gun will run equally reliable when its dirty enough to stop the soft shooting gun.
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A properly gassed AR doesn't eject brass forward of the shooter where it can bounce off cover/concealment and back into the shooter's face.

All my Colt ARs eject 5.56 brass at 3:30-4:00 o'clock. They can be dirty as can be but a couple drops of oil every now and then in the gas vent ports of the carrier keeps 'em running.
 
I have a couple of 6920's and I would say they are a solid choice.

I think this is the way to go for $750:

With FSB:
armsunlimited.com

Colt LE6920 OEM Rifle - No Furniture

The combat proven Colt LE6920 AR15 M4 carbine is a law enforcement weapon system that features many of the advantages of the military M4. With the 4-position buttstock fully retracted, the Law Enforcement Carbine is less than 32 in length, ideal for tacti
armsunlimited.com armsunlimited.com

Without FSB:
armsunlimited.com

Colt LE6920 OEM2 Rifle - No Furniture

The combat proven Colt LE6920 AR15 M4 carbine is a law enforcement weapon system that features many of the advantages of the military M4. With the 4-position buttstock fully retracted, the Law Enforcement Carbine is less than 32 in length, ideal for tacti
armsunlimited.com armsunlimited.com

You can pick your furniture and have a solid rifle.

There are lots of great choices out there these days, but it is hard to beat a Colt for less than 1K.

BTW: Windham Weaponry announced that they are closing the doors today. They were a solid mid-tier option.
 
That's a great deal I probably have furniture that would work on it. It's listed as of stock but I gave them my email.
 
If I were inclined to have a Colt roll mark on a carbine, one of those stripped "OEM" guns would be the way I'd approach it.

They're not the gold standard they were almost twenty years ago when other manufacturers were still figuring things out.

You can typically buy a much nicer carbine for the same outlay from a number of other companies.

If I wanted something equally heavy duty, for less money, I'd grab one of the PSA uppers with a FNH barrel and a Toolcraft BCG and drop it on whatever lower was on sale. Add in a LaRue MBT-2 (curved or straight bow, dealers choice) and be done with it.
 
Colt didn’t mention who produced their stocks or handgrips, Mattel at one time, but now that Magpul is a name, they do.

One thing about a Colt, it will always have good resale value.
 
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