Is the S&W 442/642 the perfect pocket gun?

[chaim]

It took me a while to warm to the 442 (I've had mine about a decade). It is not fun to shoot at the range. It is just too light. However, very few guns pocket as well, and with the concealed hammer and rounded edges, it is quite comfortable IWB.

While bigger than a pocket auto, I feel like the rounded edges of a revolver are more concealable in a pocket. The sharp corners and shape that is obviously a gun, even an LCP can print and if it does, it is clearly a gun. The rounded shapes of a revolver just look to me like I have a pocket loaded with stuff.

So, 3-4 years ago I replaced my 442 with a Taurus 856UL (without actually getting rid of the 442) because I wanted the extra round. I didn't think the extra width would matter, and when carrying a couple days a month on a non-resident permit it didn't matter. Carrying daily since Bruen allowed me to get a MD permit, I carry a small revolver more often (though admittedly, a P365 is my main carry). When I left my 856UL with a range's smith for a few days after a squib load (I let him take care of it), I started carrying my 442 when I wanted a pocket gun. Now, it is my primary pocket gun.


So, the question...

My 442 came with Secret Service boot grips. They are great for concealment, but on that light gun it was very uncomfortable to shoot. I bought some laminated Pachmayr grips, similar to their Compac grips, but laminated wood. They are better at the range, and doable for IWB, but a bit too large for pocket carry. My Taurus 856 is also aluminum, and only about an ounce heavier, but much better to shoot (still not comfortable, but not bad). It has the new Taurus grips with a little bit of a palm swell, a ledge for the pinky, but unlike the laminated Pachmayr, they don't interfere with concealment.

So, I am looking for something that splits the difference. Something with a bit of a palm swell that will fill my hands better than the Secret Service boot grips and be more comfortable at the range, but that will still be concealable.

I've considered the Pachmayr Compac Professional, but from online reviews I have concerns about their customer service.

I'm considering the Altimont boot grips. I'm a big fan of wood, so they look good, they seem to have a bit of a palm swell to more comfortably fit the hand than the mere panels that are the Secret Service Boot Grips. They are high on the list.

I'm also strongly considering the VZ boot grips (probably the "Tactical Diamonds" with texturing). I am a fan of G10 grips in other applications (knives and autos) and like the VZ grips I have for my PCR. They seem to have enough palm well to fill the hand well, but are far more concealable than what I currently have on the gun. They are the most expensive option though.

I might buy another pair of Taurus grips and modify them to fit my S&W. The only thing I don't like is grip's tread-like texture on the backstrap isn't comfortable on the web of my hand, but nothing a little sanding can't fix.

I may just put the Secret Service boot grips on. That would be the cheapest option that would be more concealable since I have them. However, uncomfortable range practice and slow follow up shots would be the cost. More likely, I'd put them up on Ebay to help defray the costs of new grips since I doubt they'll go back on this gun (I've kept them in case I ever get an all steel S&W J-frame, and I may put them on my 317).

I would love to hear what you all like for a blend of shootability and concealability for your 442, 642 and similar lightweight snubs.

 

[Tallball]

Would a t-grip thingie be helpful? Just a thought. Making the area near the trigger guard larger give your hand more to hang onto and doesn't increase the "footprint" size. I've bought grips to accomplish that same thing.

 

[chaim]

Would a t-grip thingie be helpful? Just a thought. Making the area near the trigger guard larger give your hand more to hang onto and doesn't increase the "footprint" size. I've bought grips to accomplish that same thing.

Maybe, it has been a long time since I've shot it with the tiny panels it came with. I'm not sure they'd fit though. The Eagle Secret Service grips (for some reason, about a decade ago, S&W sold a few 442s with the Eagles) do have some wood in the space between the grip and trigger guard. They are very narrow though and more palm swell helps with my meaty hands for controlability and comfort.

This is not my picture (or gun), but this is the picture from the Eagle website. These are the grips I have for my 442:

f

 

[chaim]

One option I am seriously considering, it would be the cheapest...

Keep the Pachmayr for most of my range practice while occasionally practicing with the Eagle Secret Service grips to practice the way I carry it. I doubt any of the options above would be as comfortable at the range as the Pachmayrs. Then put on the Eagle grip panels when I'm going to carry the gun. The Eagle grips are about the perfect size and design for concealment. With that much switching out though, no matter how careful I am I probably would eventually mess up the screws so I'd have to order some spare screws. That would be a lot cheaper than new grips. Of course, this isn't as good a choice from a practice/training perspective than having one set of grips for both carry and range practice.

 

[JCooperfan1911]

No.

The Ruger LCR is better.



MUCH smoother trigger, the front sight can be easily changed, more durable finish, slightly lighter, and absorbs recoil better due to the polymer frame.

 

[tubeshooter]

Some/all of that might be true, but it's still the same 5-shot payload of .38 Special.

Without even mentioning any possible trigger reset issues...


Might be "better", technically.
On some metrics, anyway.
But not by much, if any.

 

[GEM]

The no longer made SW 432 in 32 HR mag is a perfect pocket gun. Some folks who teach the small carry gun classes are happy with the 327 Mag LCRs with a small grip. You get an extra round and large variety of possible rounds of different recoil profiles but with reasonable efficacy.

Here's a class with a small gun orientation: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/npe-counter-robbery-escondido-ca-91-32023-tickets-622636280877

Note Claude Werner teaches an excellent snubby class: https://thetacticalprofessor.net/

For those in the TX area - www.krtraining.com - Karl does a small gun class.

You really need to train and shoot these. My local clubs are running small carry matches pretty frequently.

 

[mcb]

I like my 442. The other pocket gun I like is my RM380. Both go in a front pocket or vest pocket very nicely.

 

[JERRY]

The scandium guns were the best of the best.

 

[Targa]

For me it was an outstanding gun to carry but that was the only redeeming quality about it. Horrible trigger, Apex kit made it tolerable, hand stinging recoil, I wasn’t accurate with it and I really want to be accountable for the rounds I am slinging especially if it had to be used in a defensive situation and didn’t want a rogue round hitting someone else. I tried to get along with it but I eventually sold it.

 

[chaim]

The no longer made SW 432 in 32 HR mag is a perfect pocket gun. Some folks who teach the small carry gun classes are happy with the 327 Mag LCRs with a small grip. You get an extra round and large variety of possible rounds of different recoil profiles but with reasonable efficacy.

Here's a class with a small gun orientation: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/npe-counter-robbery-escondido-ca-91-32023-tickets-622636280877

Note Claude Werner teaches an excellent snubby class: https://thetacticalprofessor.net/

For those in the TX area - www.krtraining.com - Karl does a small gun class.

You really need to train and shoot these. My local clubs are running small carry matches pretty frequently.

I've thought about a .32H&R mag or .327 in the past for this role (pocket, backup or deep concealment pistol). However, finding ammo can be tough, and it is pricey, while .38spl is usually available. Even now where ammo availability isn't what it usually is, you can find cheaper practice ammo, lower power practice ammo, and decent self defense rounds with some variety to choose from. Because I have the 442 and 856UL to choose from, I may eventually add one (or a .22mag snub) as a lower recoil alternative.

 

[chaim]

I like my 442. The other pocket gun I like is my RM380. Both go in a front pocket or vest pocket very nicely.

I totally forgot that grip you have existed. It is supposed to make the recoil a lot better. What is it called again? How would you say it impacts both shootability and concealability?

 

[trackskippy]

The problem with the J frames, and especially the Airweights, etc, is, grips that are bearable to shoot with regularly enough to be good with them, are generally not what you want to use for carrying them, especially if you're trying to keep the size reasonable.

The "boot grips" never made the cut for me for a carry gun. I always preferred the factory Magnas with a T Grip for that. They arent as pleasant to shoot with for extended periods, but they arent bad either, and give a good, solid, comfortable grip. Lets face it, the Airweights really arent fun if you're shooting a lot of rounds at an outing, no matter what the grips are.

 

[CDW4ME]

Is this question limited to 442 versus other revolvers?
If not ignore what is next.

If the question is open to other options:
https://www.handgunhero.com/compare/kahr-pm9-vs-smith-wesson-model-442
The Kahr PM9 is smaller, thinner, and holds two more rounds; it bests the snub in every category.

ETA: the snub is slightly lighter, 3/4 in favor of the Kahr.

 

[chaim]

Back to grips, the main reason for my post...

I've also thought about adding some old Butler Creek or Uncle Mike boot grips. I have both the boot grips and combat grips for my Taurus 85CH and love them, they may be my favorite rubber grips. However, they haven't been made in 10-15 years. They aren't hard to find, but they are definitely getting expensive. I remember buying them at the local gun store for about $10-15, now they are $40-80 depending on the day (and whether they are new old stock or well used). I don't pocket the all steel 85CH so I may see if I can modify the boot grips for the Taurus to fit my J-frame.

I have considered buying some of the recent production OEM S&W rubber boot grips. However, I've read quite a few people online who don't find them very comfortable. I also don't usually like rubber on revolvers (the UM/BC above are such a good design to overlook it). A revolver deserves a better looking grip, but on a 442 I can overlook that since it is a very utilitarian design. However, rubber can also be a disadvantage in a concealed gun (it can make drawing from a pocket tougher, it can grab material that can make it print).



Anyone have experience with G10 grips, especially the VZ grips on a lightweight snub? This is post 13 and so far only one person other than my posts have addressed what I'm actually trying to explore. I guess most of us just look at the title of the thread and just skim the actual post?

Edit: there were 2 new posts while I was posting, so now 2 out of the 15 posts, other than my question and most of my posts, actually address what I'm asking about.

Edit 2: BTW, I don't mind thread drift, I've been online for decades, I expect it, and I have contributed to it. It was just that to the point of this post, most responses were all on my secondary point (and title), the intro to the main point of the thread... grips that are decent to shoot, yet maximize the advantage of the lightweight Centennial snubs (IMO, pocket carry).

 

[mcb]

I totally forgot that grip you have existed. It is supposed to make the recoil a lot better. What is it called again? How would you say it impacts both shootability and concealability?

Its the Ergo Delta grip. Compared to the OEM boot grip it does hurt concealability a small bit. It's longer and bulkier for sure but on the upside the weird shape helps hide the "gun-shape" print. I think it makes a dramatic difference on recoil control especially with snappy light-weight +P loads. If nothing else the shape keeps the trigger guard from bruising the back of you middle finger. It fits my hand very well so once you get past the weird feel in the hand it really is much more shootable.

 

[flightsimmer]

I have an excellent Smith & Wesson model 642 and carry it all the time.
I find myself reaching to feel it to make sure it's still there because it's so easy to carry.
A true pocket gun with Hornady critical defense ammo.
If five shots won't do it, you better run and hide.

I have dozens of guns I can and have carried but I ended up with a 642 as my favorite.
It's a defense gun not a range gun.

 

[chaim]

The problem with the J frames, and especially the Airweights, etc, is, grips that are bearable to shoot with regularly enough to be good with them, are generally not what you want to use for carrying them, especially if you're trying to keep the size reasonable.

The "boot grips" never made the cut for me for a carry gun. I always preferred the factory Magnas with a T Grip for that. They arent as pleasant to shoot with for extended periods, but they arent bad either, and give a good, solid, comfortable grip. Lets face it, the Airweights really arent fun if you're shooting a lot of rounds at an outing, no matter what the grips are.

View attachment 1147449

I may go with something like that, or keep the Eagle Secret Service grips for carry. I already have two guns that can serve well as trainers, my steel Taurus 85CH and my aluminum Taurus 856UL, and I'm starting to really like J-frames (and equivalent) so I'll probably be adding more over the next year or so.

 

[RayRoy]

To look at them, you would think the later S&W knockoff boot grips would be the same as the Uncle Mike's but the Uncle Mike's are definitely better. They also work better with speedloaders.

 

[chaim]

Is this question limited to 442 versus other revolvers?
If not ignore what is next.

If the question is open to other options:
https://www.handgunhero.com/compare/kahr-pm9-vs-smith-wesson-model-442
The Kahr PM9 is smaller, thinner, and holds two more rounds; it bests the snub in every category.

ETA: the snub is slightly lighter, 3/4 in favor of the Kahr.

While this thread isn't really about revolver vs. auto (and really mainly about grips- see the 2nd 2/3 of the intro post), I direct you to my second paragraph in my first post:

"While bigger than a pocket auto, I feel like the rounded edges of a revolver are more concealable in a pocket. The sharp corners and shape that is obviously a gun, even an LCP can print and if it does, it is clearly a gun. The rounded shapes of a revolver just look to me like I have a pocket loaded with stuff."

Yes, it is bigger, but it conceals better. I have and have tried other options. I have a Ruger LCP, I haven't carried it more than 3 or 4 times because the snub is better in the pocket role. I have a Pf9, I've never carried it. I have a SIG P365 which I regularly carry... IWB. I can carry it in my pocket, and in the right situation I might, but when I need maximum pocket concealment, or I'm carrying more than one gun, the snub is a better option. In the pocket it looks like my pocket is full of various things with the 3 rounded lumps made by the revolver, while the auto looks like the outline of a gun.

 

[tubeshooter]

I have to say that if your thread is really about grip options and not whether a Smith Centennial-style J is the perfect pocket gun...


...then maybe don't title your thread "Is the S&W 442/642 the perfect pocket gun?" and then get perturbed when people try to respond to said question.

 

[chaim]

I have to say that if your thread is really about grip options and not whether a Smith Centennial-style J is the perfect pocket gun...


...then maybe don't title your thread "Is the S&W 442/642 the perfect pocket gun?" and then get perturbed when people try to respond to said question.

Like I said in edit 2, the title and the first 1/3 of the post was intro...
I have no problem with commenting on the intro, I only start to get "perturbed" when more than 2/3 of the posts are about the intro instead of the purpose of the thread. And then, it isn't a huge problem as long as people are actually helping me come up with a solution to what I'm looking for (grips that aren't bad at the range but don't detract from this being the perfect pocket carry gun), which they started to do after that post.

 

[GEM]

My PM9 never ran. Some do and some don't. To the point, I do have a 642 with CT laser grips. I have carried it quite a bit and shot it in matches. It's an absolutely fine gun. About the laser grips, I really haven't found them that useful in lighted, normal posture conditions. I can get the gun into position and shoot it and find looking for the dot as a distraction. Also, in outdoor sun, I can't see the red dot at any distance. Indoors in the dark, perhaps.

In any case, you can't go wrong with a 642 and a reasoned choice of ammo, Chaim. I have a Glock 42 and it's harder to draw from pockets and it's a touch unreliable. I've worn in on my belt when my old back was hurting.

 

[tubeshooter]

A lot of people aren't going to pick through your edits to see what you really meant, either.

I was just responding to someone responding to your thread title.

I don't have anything for you on Airweight grips. You've already tried what I've tried and more.


Hope you get the answers you seek without too much noise-to-signal ratio.

 

[Pat Riot]

My favorite carry gun is my 442. I have tried several grips looking for something better than the Uncle Mike’s boot grips that came with my 442 when I bought it in 97.
I also tried the Ergo Delta Grip that @mcb posted. I didn’t care for it. It’s kind of bulky, but my biggest problem with was my wrist. I have issues with my wrist. Arthritis and cartilage issues. Anyway the angle didn’t work for me. I really hoped it would.
I tried some knockoffs that look like Eagle Secret Service grips. They were too smooth. The gun moved too much in my hands under recoil.
I tried the Altamont Altai grips from a model 60 Pro. They didn’t fit my hands quite right
I put Service Panels on it but that was too slender so I added a BK Grip Adapter. I did like that. I put that set up on my model 36. The service panels came off that gun to start with.
The one grip that I liked and I actually enjoyed shooting my 442 was the Hogue Monogrip. It made shooting the 442 a pleasure but it adds length to the grip so it diminishes concealment a bit.
Currently I have the original boot grips on it and after it’s all said and done I think I will just stick with them.
I am truly tired of wasting money chasing something better.