Omaha-BeenGlockin
Member
Considering I can get 2 Express' ($280+$280=$560) for less than the cost of one Wingmaster ($630)-- I'm having a hard time swallowing the Wingmaster is "that" much better----just seems very overpriced to me.
Is the Wingmaster really worth it?
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rbernie
Contributing Member
The Wingmaster is a lot nicer. However, I buy 'em used for $300-$400 so the price difference isn't as great.
Virginian
Member
Judging "worth" of any shotgun is strictly an individual thing. If it is worth it to you, then it is worth it.
Unlike the $79 values for $19.99 on TV (+S&H), and they will give you a second one free (you just pay S&H one more time).
I think the value of SxSs has gone nuts. It benefitted me because I recently sold off all mine but one, but I still think it's nuts.
Most cars cost more than my first house - some non-exocitic cars cost more than my second house. But hey, they've shipped almost all the good jobs to Asia! Is it any wonder there is a problem?!
Unlike the $79 values for $19.99 on TV (+S&H), and they will give you a second one free (you just pay S&H one more time).
I think the value of SxSs has gone nuts. It benefitted me because I recently sold off all mine but one, but I still think it's nuts.
Most cars cost more than my first house - some non-exocitic cars cost more than my second house. But hey, they've shipped almost all the good jobs to Asia! Is it any wonder there is a problem?!
Floppy_D
Member In Memoriam
What criteria makes your decision? If dead nuts reliability is the only thing you care about, then yeah, it's a waste. If you dig the aesthetics of shotguns, the Express is no slouch, but the Wingmaster is beautiful. I bought a 1970 Wingmaster in fantastic shape, 3 or 4 months ago for $250, and I'm happy. Pick the two up in a gunshop, feel the action, and make a call. They obviously sell well enough to justify theprice difference to some folks. Shop used, as rbernie mentioned?
My Wingmaster has the nicer wood, a smoother action, and a prettier finish. There is the cost. They are worth it if you have the $$$. That's all. The Express is extraordinary quality, and I also have one of those for our daughter. Choose your poisen.
Doc2005
Doc2005
Liberty1776
Member
not better, just purtier...
Let me clarify too, that I only take my Wingmaster pheasant hunting. When I hit the brush, I take the Express.
So, for me, I "need" both. Of course, I bought the Wingmaster first.
Then, I needed the Express so I wouldn't destroy my beautiful shotgun that my wife agreed to let me get if I would hunt pheasants for her supper.
Trust me, I'm as-slick-as my Wingmaster's action!
Geno
So, for me, I "need" both. Of course, I bought the Wingmaster first.
Then, I needed the Express so I wouldn't destroy my beautiful shotgun that my wife agreed to let me get if I would hunt pheasants for her supper.Trust me, I'm as-slick-as my Wingmaster's action!
Geno
earlthegoat2
Member
If your looking for a good value for a beautiful finish think Browning BPS. The Wingmaster is still quite a bit nicer though it is 200 more.
If you don't mind used. I was in a shop the other day that had 5 or 6 ranging in price from $275-340. All but one was in 12ga the other a 20ga. The vent rib model ran closer to the 340 range but all were in pretty good shape. That seems to be about the going price range around here.
MCgunner
Member
I'm really not into looks. I care about function. Salt marsh hunting has ruinned the looks of a couple of my guns already. I take a little better care of 'em now days, but the environment is not conducive to keeping walnut and bluing very nice. I've been waxing my 1400 and babying it, but I can scratch my camo Mossberg's finish and not lose sleep over it. Neither gun is expensive, just that I like to keep bluing and wood looking nice. When the stock is plastic, and the finish is camo, it's a lot easier to bang around and not feel guilty and, well, the camo finish is a LOT more rugged.
I reckon it's an individual thing, but that's MY individual take on it. If I had a BPS, it'd be a camo model with plastic stocks. The Mossberg just seems a little more reasonable in the roll, though, considering the sticker price and it's a strong gun going on 20 years old and still knockin' down ducks. I'm sure it'll knock down ducks for future grandkids, I mean, if they can legally own and use guns by then, but that's a different subject.
So, anyway, obviously, I think the Wingmaster is a waste of good money, but that's just me. I had one a long time ago. It was a real good shootin' gun, but being a lefty, I prefer the ergos of the Mossberg or Browning guns. I'm sorta glad I sold it before the salt marsh took its toll, anyway. I sold it in college when I needed money (always needed money) and when I got out and got a good job, I started waterfowling again. Last I heard, the room mate I sold that Wingmaster to is still hunting with it and that gun was new in the late 50s/early 60s sometime or another. If you really want one, find a used one to your liking. It takes a lot to wear one out.
I reckon it's an individual thing, but that's MY individual take on it. If I had a BPS, it'd be a camo model with plastic stocks.
The Mossberg just seems a little more reasonable in the roll, though, considering the sticker price and it's a strong gun going on 20 years old and still knockin' down ducks. I'm sure it'll knock down ducks for future grandkids, I mean, if they can legally own and use guns by then, but that's a different subject.So, anyway, obviously, I think the Wingmaster is a waste of good money, but that's just me. I had one a long time ago. It was a real good shootin' gun, but being a lefty, I prefer the ergos of the Mossberg or Browning guns. I'm sorta glad I sold it before the salt marsh took its toll, anyway. I sold it in college when I needed money (always needed money) and when I got out and got a good job, I started waterfowling again. Last I heard, the room mate I sold that Wingmaster to is still hunting with it and that gun was new in the late 50s/early 60s sometime or another. If you really want one, find a used one to your liking. It takes a lot to wear one out.
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JohnBT
Member
I bought an Express in 1993 for duck hunting - saltwater, boats, crude blinds brushed with sappy cedar, sleet, snow, frozen mud, hikes in the dark through thick brush, tall reeds and forest, etc.
I had nicer shotguns and needed a beater.
I've often wished I'd bought a Wingmaster, new or used. A beat up Wingmaster is still going to look and feel better to me than a beat up Express. Not a big deal, but still a consideration. A scratched Wingmaster shows walnut, not cheap old generic hardwood. I touch up the Express with shoe polish.
Now I shoot a Winchester SX-2 Waterfowl I bought used and keep the Express for a backup or loaner. It still works.
I've hunted with guys using old Belgian Browning A-5s and one guy with an old Remington 1100 with gold inlays on the receiver that he's used hard for 30 years or so. They're all well used, but still nice shotguns.
Is a Wingmaster worth it? Maybe. The Express will work.
John
I had nicer shotguns and needed a beater.
I've often wished I'd bought a Wingmaster, new or used. A beat up Wingmaster is still going to look and feel better to me than a beat up Express. Not a big deal, but still a consideration. A scratched Wingmaster shows walnut, not cheap old generic hardwood. I touch up the Express with shoe polish.
Now I shoot a Winchester SX-2 Waterfowl I bought used and keep the Express for a backup or loaner. It still works.
I've hunted with guys using old Belgian Browning A-5s and one guy with an old Remington 1100 with gold inlays on the receiver that he's used hard for 30 years or so. They're all well used, but still nice shotguns.
Is a Wingmaster worth it? Maybe. The Express will work.
John
Virginian
Member
I got my first gun selling Christmas cards. Right before my Dad died. Some of you may remember the ads with Mickey Mantle. Except for one my Mother bought me, I have bought all my guns in the intervening 50 years. I have made it a point to take care of all of them.
The top gun below is a 1966 3" model that is rather "new" to me. It wears the original stock from the '63 2-3/4" gun below it, and the '63 has it's stock. I prefer the Pachmyr pad. The bottom gun was my primary duck gun for 25 years. It has gotten muddy, been from Pamilico Sound in North Carolina to Manitoba, Canada, and been dropped in the sometimes salt water
, and been equipped with a 3" chambered 'steel' barrel and had everything shot thru it, and it has killed a few truckloads of ducks and geese. It did get cleaned, and has never been reblued or refinished in any way.
All you have to remember is, when you're going down, make sure you're on the bottom. This also works fairly well for motorcycles (when you're young), but it is pretty tough on you.
The top gun below is a 1966 3" model that is rather "new" to me. It wears the original stock from the '63 2-3/4" gun below it, and the '63 has it's stock. I prefer the Pachmyr pad. The bottom gun was my primary duck gun for 25 years. It has gotten muddy, been from Pamilico Sound in North Carolina to Manitoba, Canada, and been dropped in the sometimes salt water
, and been equipped with a 3" chambered 'steel' barrel and had everything shot thru it, and it has killed a few truckloads of ducks and geese. It did get cleaned, and has never been reblued or refinished in any way.All you have to remember is, when you're going down, make sure you're on the bottom.
This also works fairly well for motorcycles (when you're young), but it is pretty tough on you. Attachments
MCgunner
Member
Not me, every time I've crashed a motorcycle, more times than I can remember, I've always instinctively gotten away and tucked and rolled, a couple of crashes well over 100 mph without major injury. Race leathers and a good helmet helped.
Now, when I slip with the shotgun, get tangled up in the mud, I almost always instinctively put the butt end down as a brace and the gun goes in the mud and water. :banghead: Plastic stocks do help. I HATE even hardwood getting dunked.
I have a friend with a crusty, rusty 1100. He dropped it out of the boat into the bay. They fished it out, but by the time he got home, it was pitted.
No, I ain't buyin' no Pirazzi for duck hunting. Wood and blued steel is pretty, but camo and plastic works better for me. I'm old, but young at heart. I can accept a little change. I never ever thought of a pump gun as anything more than a tool, though. Side by Sides, even O/Us are what I look at and admire for the art. A pump is just a pump, don't really care how much gold is on it. Same for autos.
JohnBT
Member
The Mick says...
MCgunner
Member
You don't see that sort of thing anymore, eh? I remember when the First National Bank in Freeport used to have a big ad on the sign out front offering a shotgun if you deposited 10 grand or whatever it was for a year. Of course, it didn't say how much intrest you gave up. LOL I used to think, in my ignorant youth, that I wished I had 10 grand to deposit to buy that shotgun. Hell, if I'd had 10 grand, I coulda bought the shotgun and still earned 5 percent on what was left. I think it was about a 130 dollar 1100 Remington at the time. LOL But, for some reason, that didn't occur to me.
It's all in what you like, but if I wanna be ostentatious, I'll buy at LEAST a Citori or Orion and maybe have it engraved. A nice Superposed would be nice. 870? Workin' man's gun, a tool, not art. That's just me, though, so if it makes you happy, go for it. I really like side by sides, but I can't afford a really nice one. Citoris are affordable if I was to save up for a while. I'm not an ostentatious kinda guy, though. I'm about hunting, not really about the tool to do it if it does the job, and my Mossberg works better for me than any Remington with a crossbolt safety, being a lefty. I do appreciate a nice gun, though, just that I don't care to spend the extra money for frills. That express will smooth up with use, my 500 has, almost pumps itself after 20 years.
I remember my uncle's M37 featherweight 16 gauge. Now, THAT was a smooth pumpin' shotgun! I had my Wingmaster at the time and there was just no comparison to that Ithaca. That thing was slick!
I remember when the First National Bank in Freeport used to have a big ad on the sign out front offering a shotgun if you deposited 10 grand or whatever it was for a year. Of course, it didn't say how much intrest you gave up. LOL I used to think, in my ignorant youth, that I wished I had 10 grand to deposit to buy that shotgun. Hell, if I'd had 10 grand, I coulda bought the shotgun and still earned 5 percent on what was left. I think it was about a 130 dollar 1100 Remington at the time. LOL But, for some reason, that didn't occur to me.It's all in what you like, but if I wanna be ostentatious, I'll buy at LEAST a Citori or Orion and maybe have it engraved. A nice Superposed would be nice. 870? Workin' man's gun, a tool, not art. That's just me, though, so if it makes you happy, go for it. I really like side by sides, but I can't afford a really nice one. Citoris are affordable if I was to save up for a while. I'm not an ostentatious kinda guy, though. I'm about hunting, not really about the tool to do it if it does the job, and my Mossberg works better for me than any Remington with a crossbolt safety, being a lefty. I do appreciate a nice gun, though, just that I don't care to spend the extra money for frills. That express will smooth up with use, my 500 has, almost pumps itself after 20 years.
I remember my uncle's M37 featherweight 16 gauge. Now, THAT was a smooth pumpin' shotgun!
I had my Wingmaster at the time and there was just no comparison to that Ithaca. That thing was slick!The Deer Hunter
Member
I bought my 870 Wingmaster in like new condition for $450. You can find used Wingmasters for about the price of a new express gun. The "bead blasted blue" on the express lines a bit of a joke, but if it's all you can afford it's still a solid shotgun.
My father gave me a 20GA 1100 express. I couldn't stand the finish, so I bought a small duracoat kit and painted it flat black. The duracoat did a very good job and it filled all of the small pits leaving me with a handsome, slick shotgun.
556A2
Member
It you want a very nice shotgun it is.
rbernie
Contributing Member
I have to admit that I have a thing for the milled groove on the top of the Wingmaster receiver. The Express receiver top is just UGLY.
For a shotgun that won't be used in saltwater - I aesthetically prefer the Wingmaster enough to pay the difference (used).
For a shotgun that won't be used in saltwater - I aesthetically prefer the Wingmaster enough to pay the difference (used).
Virginian
Member
That was it JohnBT !
Oops. I swear I forgot until I saw the line about Duracoat. When I used to hunt around salt water I did paint the blued metal satin black. Later removed with laquer thinner. And I did put some boiled linseed oil on the raw wood under the pad and at the receiver.
A pretty gun shoots better for me. Kinda like a pretty woman is... never mind.
Oops. I swear I forgot until I saw the line about Duracoat. When I used to hunt around salt water I did paint the blued metal satin black. Later removed with laquer thinner. And I did put some boiled linseed oil on the raw wood under the pad and at the receiver.
A pretty gun shoots better for me.
Kinda like a pretty woman is... never mind. Those who said they can buy a used Wingmaster for a good price have proven my point. You can buy a new Express or a used Wingmaster with fixed choke for $250-$300, so buying a new Wingmaster for $625 makes no sense. I think the market has proven this to be true. Remington probably sells 30 Expresses for every one Wingmaster.
A picture is worth a 1000 words, gentlemen.
Geno (Formerly Doc2005)
By doc2005, shot with hp photosmart 733 at 2009-03-13
Geno (Formerly Doc2005)
By doc2005, shot with hp photosmart 733 at 2009-03-13
I'm a big fan of the 870 and like the Wingmaster a litttle better. It is probably just me but I do not care at all for anything with impressed checkering so the older models are out for me. I have a couple of late 80's Wingmasters with real checkering as well as a couple of Express models with synthetic stocks that I like quite well.
Even though I like them, if I had to chose between a $650 Wingmaster and a $250 Express I would take my chances on the Express. Or, spend a little more and get an autoloader.
I would like for Remington to offer something with a little better quality than the Express with out some of the bells and whistles that would sell for around $350-$400
Even though I like them, if I had to chose between a $650 Wingmaster and a $250 Express I would take my chances on the Express. Or, spend a little more and get an autoloader.
I would like for Remington to offer something with a little better quality than the Express with out some of the bells and whistles that would sell for around $350-$400
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