Is there a place for the "Forgotten" Gauges?

[TTv2]

Been thinking lately about how it'd be nice to have a smaller bore shotgun that's larger than .410, but not a 28 and how it'd be nice to have a 28 with a bit more shot, but isn't a 20.

Obviously, I'm thinking about 32 and 24 gauge. I thought more about 32 and figured that it's not that much less than 28 would be, so the performance differences I doubt would be noticeable, but 24 gauge really does seem to be a sweet spot where it'd be less recoil than 20, would handle better than 20, and hold more shot than 28 would.

The other factor at play with 24 is the use of brass hulls in forming .577 Snider and .577/.450 brass for the British antique rifles.

Then I started to think about 16ga and how it was very popular at one time and has faded into obscurity, but it's nothing to sneeze at in terms of potential as it bridges the gap between 12 and 20.

If all things were equal in terms of shotgun variety and ammo availability (cost is a different factor) I would probably choose 16 and 24 gauge as my two gauges of choice. They seem to offer the benefits of their more common neighbor gauges, but mask the weaknesses of the smaller gauges.

Is there a place for the uncommon forgotten shotgun gauges today? Which uncommon gauge that isn't 10, 12, 20, 28, or .410 would you like to see become more popular or get more industry support in the future?

 

[X62503]

How about a .50 smoothbore flintlock?

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

With the longer magnum chambers, powders, and projectiles available today, 12 and 20 can be loaded from mild to wild, so theres really no need for the in-betweens anymore.

 

[TTv2]

With the longer magnum chambers, powders, and projectiles available today, 12 and 20 can be loaded from mild to wild, so theres really no need for the in-betweens anymore.

Can be loaded... if you reload. Who is making 20 gauge low recoil ammo or 28 gauge magnum ammo?

I don't reload for shotgun and only plan to for .410 due to cost.

 

[Bronco72]

I have also wondered why the 32 gauge did not reach the heights of the .410 bore..

 

[Roverguy]

Everything is a trade off. Want a light, beautifully pointing death wand? There are plenty of fine 28 ga doubles. Even if someone were currently making scaled 32 ga guns, the difference in size and weight to a fine 28 is virtually immaterial. The real problem was the advent of the 3” 20 ga. While brilliant from a versatility perspective, it led to larger frame, heavier guns. If you’ve even handled a scaled 2 3/4” fine 20 ga SxS, you know what I mean. They can feel like a 28 and handle beautifully. Carry it all day with no complaint.

But you have a point on the 16ga. The 3” 20 did for the 16ga as much as it being left out of skeet. A fine 16 gun will carry like a 20 and hit like a 12. And there are still a lot of beautiful 16s out there.

 

[12Bravo20]

If you’ve even handled a scaled 2 3/4” fine 20 ga SxS, you know what I mean. They can feel like a 28 and handle beautifully. Carry it all day with no complaint.

You can go too light on a 20 gauge SxS and it will kick like a mule. I had a really nice Spanish 20 gauge double come in the shop years ago. It was super light and nicely made but not much fun to shoot a round trap or skeet with.

The British has a few different shogun gauges/calibers at one time such as the 24 and 32 gauge. And don't forget the British 303 rifles converted to 410 for use in India. Ones with original chambers will not chamber regular 410 shells.

And don't forget the 2, 4, and 8 gauge punt guns either. But those were usually mounted to boats.

 

[Roverguy]

You can go too light on a 20 gauge SxS and it will kick like a mule. I had a really nice Spanish 20 gauge double come in the shop years ago. It was super light and nicely made but not much fun to shoot a round trap or skeet with.

The British has a few different shogun gauges/calibers at one time such as the 24 and 32 gauge. And don't forget the British 303 rifles converted to 410 for use in India. Ones with original chambers will not chamber regular 410 shells.

And don't forget the 2, 4, and 8 gauge punt guns either. But those were usually mounted to boats.

Verily, game guns are not clays guns!

 

[tmd16556]

Cartridge shotguns and factory ammo make standardization make sense. With a muzzle loader, any gauge goes if you can cut the patches right. Some survived a while, particularly in the UK where upper class shooters pay premium prices for their fowling pieces. Otherwise, the 12 and 20 cover a lot of ground.

 

[TTv2]

Everything is a trade off. Want a light, beautifully pointing death wand? There are plenty of fine 28 ga doubles. Even if someone were currently making scaled 32 ga guns, the difference in size and weight to a fine 28 is virtually immaterial. The real problem was the advent of the 3” 20 ga. While brilliant from a versatility perspective, it led to larger frame, heavier guns. If you’ve even handled a scaled 2 3/4” fine 20 ga SxS, you know what I mean. They can feel like a 28 and handle beautifully. Carry it all day with no complaint.

But you have a point on the 16ga. The 3” 20 did for the 16ga as much as it being left out of skeet. A fine 16 gun will carry like a 20 and hit like a 12. And there are still a lot of beautiful 16s out there.

Yeah, one of the benefits of the 16 is they're still relatively available. The 24 and 32 are not. I could live without the 32 as if the difference between it and 28 is that insignificant then it's not worth bothering.

I would think that a true scaled 24 would be a breeze compared to a 20, but hit better than a 28, maybe hit as well as a 20.

And I'm not laser focused on these being in break action shotguns, I would love a pump in 24.

 

[Jim Watson]

Who is making... 28 gauge magnum ammo?

Fiocchi and Federal that I can find right offhand.

In black powder and early smokeless days, the stair step of gauges was needed because the powder wasn't very flexible. If you wanted more or less shot, you needed a bigger or smaller bore to get standard velocity. A wide selection of progressive powders now allows the 20 ga Magnum to push out the 16 ga and a lot of 12 ga.

 

[jmr40]

I see more discussion about this type of thing with rifles than shotguns. Some guys will argue that their favorite cartridge is so much better than something else because it shoots a bullet 10 gr heavier and is 1/2 the thickness of a dime greater in diameter.

Not nearly so much with shotgun gauges. The truth is that a 20 ga that will take 2 3/4 and 3" shells will do 90% of what a shotgunner needs. You can vary the shot charge and even use them in different 20 ga platforms to achieve the level of performance and recoil you want.

A 12 that will also take 2 3/4" and 3" shells will significantly overlap what the 20 does in both performance and recoil but has the capability to handle that 10% that you can't do with a 20.

I don't really have a use for a 28 or .410, but recognize they fill a need for some people. If someone wants to use something else just because they want to, I'm fine with that. I just don't see where any of them fill a gap, and that includes the 16. And I understand the 16 has a cult like following so I'll probably get hate mail for that.

 

[unspellable]

We now have 3 inch 28 ga guns and cartridges. The 24 ga was never updated to today's type of loads so it falls behind the 28 ga, The 32 is way behind.

 

[Riomouse911]

I see more discussion about this type of thing with rifles than shotguns. Some guys will argue that their favorite cartridge is so much better than something else because it shoots a bullet 10 gr heavier and is 1/2 the thickness of a dime greater in diameter.

Not nearly so much with shotgun gauges. The truth is that a 20 ga that will take 2 3/4 and 3" shells will do 90% of what a shotgunner needs. You can vary the shot charge and even use them in different 20 ga platforms to achieve the level of performance and recoil you want.

A 12 that will also take 2 3/4" and 3" shells will significantly overlap what the 20 does in both performance and recoil but has the capability to handle that 10% that you can't do with a 20.

I don't really have a use for a 28 or .410, but recognize they fill a need for some people. If someone wants to use something else just because they want to, I'm fine with that. I just don't see where any of them fill a gap, and that includes the 16. And I understand the 16 has a cult like following so I'll probably get hate mail for that.

There is a reason the 10, 16, 24, 28, and 32 gauges all have faded, and you hit it right on the head.

And this from a guy with 3 16 gauges, 2 28’s and two .410’s in the safes.

Stay safe.

 

[I6turbo]

Oh, the lengths we’ll go to convince ourselves that there is logic, reason, and need for the luxury items that we want.

 

[Jim Watson]

I admire the English approach, a 12 gauge for everything.
Clear down to a 2" 12 ga weighing 5 1/4 lbs instead of a 20.

 

[GRIZ22]

12 20, and 410 meet 99.99% of needs.

 

[Jim Watson]

You have to have a 28 for tournament Skeet.
And one or another 12 will do everything else.

 

[earlthegoat2]

I have often thought the same things about 16 and 28 ga.

I have a 12 and a 20 and am not disappointed. I don’t load for them either.

 

[Showman]

So the 10 gauge is now a forgotten gauge along with the 16 and others? Has the 10 become that now? Interesting. I suppose that the "Elmer Keith Gauge" just isn't versatile enough.

 

[Ranger99]

I had a 3 1/2 " 10ga when we used to
hunt a place with a large turkey population. The big two and a quarter
ounce payload really did the work

I've seen in different places that a
410 with bismuth shot has become
popular with many. I can't speak on
that because I have no experience
with that combination.
Only used a 410 for wabbits and
squirrels and the occasional slug
for booger bears

JMHO- I'd check around a bunch to
see what could be had with no difficulty
as far as an assortment of ammunition,
choke tubes, cleaning supplies, different
accessories, etc. before I jumped
off the edge with any particular thing

 

[doubleh]

When I finally went to a 20 from a 12 guage I found what I consider the ideal dove and quail gun. My kill ratio went up simply because it is faster handling. Others opinions may differ but I only consider mine. I do have my granddad's single shot 410 that was his skunk gun. It's my go to for gophers. I wouldn't even try birds with it because of it super tight pattern but I can aim at the gophers. Get behind one cleaning out his hole and it will yank him right out of it. I have had them land about 2' from the hole deader than a door knob.

 

[halfmoonclip]

Handled a 16 gauge '97, not a bit of bluing left, slick as can be. Established a value on an H&R 10 gauge turkey gun; that barrel must have been a yard long. It was heavy, and I'd still hate to shoot it.
Had a really nice Browning 20 gauge double; did load for that, as well as some buddies' 20s.
But odd gauges are like odd calibers; without support, they wither.
Moon

 

[12Bravo20]

When I finally went to a 20 from a 12 guage I found what I consider the ideal dove and quail gun. My kill ratio went up simply because it is faster handling. Others opinions may differ but I only consider mine. I do have my granddad's single shot 410 that was his skunk gun. It's my go to for gophers. I wouldn't even try birds with it because of it super tight pattern but I can aim at the gophers. Get behind one cleaning out his hole and it will yank him right out of it. I have had them land about 2' from the hole deader than a door knob.

My dad has his Montgomery Ward Western Field single shot 410 (Savage made) that has a very tight full choke. I used it for all my rabbit and squirrel hunting as a kid until I was able to get a 410 Mossberg 500. I still used the old Western Field for turkey shoots while in high school. I actually got banned from using that single shot 410 at a few turkey shoots because I was beating guys with their purpose built custom 12 gauges. That old single shot also took a lot of turkeys when I was young.

On subject, I don't really see a need or place for 24 or 32 gauge. And with modern shells, the 12 and 20 gauges will do what the 16 does. Speaking of 28 gauge, I am a little surprised at the release of 3" 28 gauge shells. Unless you just love 28 gauge shotguns, you might as well step up to a 20 gauge at this point.

I am an odd one in that I still use my 410's for all my hunting with the exception of waterfowl. I also use a 410 loaded with 3" 000 buckshot for home defense too.

 

[cfullgraf]

You have to have a 28 for tournament Skeet.
And one or another 12 will do everything else.

Yes, if it was not for competitive skeet, 28 gauge would have been long gone.

Growing up in the 1960's, my dad had the 28 Gauge side by side shotgun he grew up with. His brothers had a 20 gauge version. In the early 1960s, the only 28 gauge shot shell ammunition he could find for the 28 gauge gun was #9 target loads.

I broke lots of clays with the gun and bagged my first pheasant with it using the #9 target ammunition. Not ideal but a lucky BB to the head put the pheasant's lights out.

Fortunately, because of skeet, 28 gauge has endured. My first class win in a skeet tournament was in 28 gauge albeit with a tubed 12 gauge gauge shotgun..

Now a days, a variety of shells are available as manufacturers are making some scaled down guns optimizing them for 28 gauge. Reloading recipes are more widely available as well.

Besides my Dad's gun and my tubed skeet gun, I have a Beretta 686 and Browning 725 28 gauge O/U guns. I have conversion dies for my Dullon SL900 so that I can load 28 gauge. The guns are a joy to shoot.

The down side is that components and reloading data are available that allow the shooter to up size ore down size the mainstream cartridges such that they mimic the various sub-gauges of the past. With the appropriate components. I can load 12 and 20 gauge shot shells that mimic 28 gauge shell performance.

16 guage is struggling to hang on and the number of new 24 or 32 gauge shotguns on the market today is few. I've dabbled a bit with loading brass .410 shot shells. They wok but it requires a fair amount of work to produce usable ammunition.

I hope components will always be available for these obsolete gauges as it would be a shame to not be able to shoot them.

But life's a bitch sometimes.