Is this a gun?

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lears75

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I found this at a family members estate and it peaked my curiosity. When I brought it home, my husband informed me that it was a gun. After hearing this, I was a bit concerned, however it does not appear to have any bullets in it. I was hoping someone would be able to tell me something about it. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Christine
 

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Though I am not certain, it is possible as in the late 1800's to early 1900's there were guns made in all shapes and sizes to mimic and even function as several other things.. there were guns that looked like pocket watches, pens, canes, and many other things...

It is possible that you unscrew the end, place your bullet, and the "clicker" on the end is your trigger mechanism...

Now, with that said, if it is a gun, I believe it would fall under the AOW Laws and you would be required to either get a C&R license or go through the other avenues to include purchasing a tax stamp... Someone else that is more knowledgeable in such things than myself will have to chime in to be sure.
 
I found this at a family members estate and it peaked my curiosity. When I brought it home, my husband informed me that it was a gun. After hearing this, I was a bit concerned, however it does not appear to have any bullets in it. I was hoping someone would be able to tell me something about it. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Christine
 
It's very cool! If it is a gun, I would assume the end cap unscrews, a round is placed inside and it and the cap screwed back down. I would then imagine the "knob" is pulled back to cock it but I'm not seeing a "trigger". Can you find a caliber marking? Can you open it with damaging it? Be careful since it may still be loaded if it is a firearm. Lastly it may be considered an AOW by the ATF in which case, you may need to turn it in.
 
Here are the pictures. Sorry for all of the posts, I am new to this.
 

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I would then imagine the "knob" is pulled back to cock it but I'm not seeing a "trigger". Can you find a caliber marking? Can you open it with damaging it? Be careful since it may still be loaded if it is a firearm. Lastly it may be considered an AOW by the ATF in which case, you may need to turn it in.
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Don't open it. Take it to a gunsmith & have them ensure it is clear. Once they are able to confirm its mode of function & explain it to you, you will be able to render it safe.

A good gunsmith/dealer may also be able to guide you into proper proceedures for declaring the C&R nature of the gun to make it legal to own, assuming it is actually a gun. I would NOT attempt to sell it without confirming the legalities around this. It is an interesting find---
 
Neat! That is a souvenir of a very peculiarly American period. During WWI everybody wanted to give the departing soldier some last ditch weapon so there are "brass" knuckles, brass knuckle knives, belt buckle knives, hidden boot knives and even brass knuckle guns as this appears to be. Little shops across the country made odd little weapons, many of which are stamped US Army or something similar to market them to soldiers (or more likely, soldiers friends and relatives).

I'm guessing it's a simple spring activated knob - pull it back and release it to shoot. Probably in .22 or .32 rimfire.

I wish it was mine!
 
Near as I can see.
1. It is a gun, attached to a set of steel "brass knuckles".
2. It appears to be a smooth-bore barrel with no rifling.
3. It is certainly shorter then the proscribed 18" barrel + 26" overall length necessary for a smooth-bore shotgun.
4. It certainly can be concealed in a pocket.

All of the above make it an Any Other Weapon, or AOW under the National Firearm Act of 1934.
As such, I requires registration and a tax stamp.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/importation-verification/firearms-verification-nfa-aow.html

Since it clearly was made in 1918 during the late stages of WWI, it does not fit into the Curio & Relic classification either. To be classed as a Curio & Relic, it would have to have been made before 1898.

Right now, you are in possession of an illegal weapon under Federal Law.

Registration form, and estate info:
http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-4.pdf

rc
 
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To be classed as a Curio & Relic, it would have to have been made before 1898.
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No.

To be recognized as C&R items, 478.11 specifies that firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

1. Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas of such firearms;
2. Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and
3. Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event.

Firearms automatically attain C&R status when they are 50 years old. Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm. It is not necessary for such firearms to be listed in ATF’s C&R list. Therefore, ATF does not generally list firearms in the C&R publication by virtue of their age. However, if you wish for a classification of your particular firearm under categories (b) or (c) above and wish your item to be listed, you may submit the weapon to the Firearms Technology Branch (FTB) for a formal classification.

Please note that firearms regulated under the National Firearms Act (NFA) may be classified as C&R items, but still may be subject to the provisions of the NFA. If your C&R item is an NFA firearm (e.g., Winchester Trappers) and you desire removal from the NFA status, you must submit it to FTB for evaluation and a formal classification.
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I stand corrected.

I do think it is safe to say that item is most likely a "one of" tool room sample or something, as I have never ever seen one before like it with any connection to U. S. Army use or markings.

While it is certainly novel, rare, & bizarre, and probably quite valuable to a collector.
I would certainly think it has not been classified as a C&R under provisions of rule #3, because it might be the only one in the world to turn up so far!

rc
 
I am thinking that would qualify as a "zip gun" which if memory serves me correctly, and it often does not, is an NFA weapon and would have to have a tax stamp to be legal. Not sure if the C&R would completely cover it. Since there is no "trigger" but obviously it is a spring loaded pullback and release to fire.
 
Whatever it is, it probably ain't legal.
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I am thinking that would qualify as a "zip gun" which if memory serves me correctly, and it often does not, is an NFA weapon
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The answer to that question has already been posted in #12. It's a curio and relic associated with WWI. It's not illegal and not NFA.

3. Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event.
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It looks kind of like a tear gas pen combined with a knuckle duster. It's pretty certain it was never issued by the US Army, and I suspect that the date is spurious, too.
 
lears75 said:
I found this at a family members estate and it peaked my curiosity. When I brought it home, my husband informed me that it was a gun. After hearing this, I was a bit concerned, however it does not appear to have any bullets in it. I was hoping someone would be able to tell me something about it. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Christine
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Looks like a form of zip gun. Possibly a trench gun for use in WWI It unscrews in order to load a .22 centre fire or rimfire. Then to fire you will find the knurled end is drawn back against spring tension and simply let go to strike the primer of the cartridge.
 
Kodiak, Just because it has "US ARMY" stamped on it does not in ANY way associate it with WW1 or WW2. The army never issued such a weapon and it also has no SN so that kind of makes a bit of a stink for the C&R. It is a "zip gun" no question about that. The only question is weather or not it would be classified as a curio since it is not dated and has no SN to actually nail down the date of manufacture.

Edit: The tooling on it also makes me suspect that 1918 date on there as well. Tooling looks a bit ahead of 1918 tech.
 
Kodiak, Just because it has "US ARMY" stamped on it does not in ANY way associate it with WW1 or WW2.
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Sigh... The stamps "US Army" and "1918" associate it with the period of WWI. "novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event" Not to mention that it's over 50 years old (and not a full auto or other controlled weapon) qualifies it for C&R status. It's just an odd handgun, period.

3. Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event.

Firearms automatically attain C&R status when they are 50 years old. Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm. It is not necessary for such firearms to be listed in ATF’s C&R list.
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Another thing too. They TRIED to hide it with grinding but failed miserably, but that barrel is WELDED to the knuckles. Now I am no historian, but that sure looks like an electric weld bead (and not a very good one) and if memory serves me correctly, electric welding was only invented around 1914 and was not in common use until the middle to late 20's. Kind of negates that date there as well.

I personally feel like it is some sort of a gimmick sold to some shmuck in the 50's as a "war item".

The one that hso pictured in post #3 would qualify as C&R most definitely. This one, on the other hand, would be highly suspect to say the least.
 
Both my grandfather and my great grandfather were in the US Army. My great grandfather fought and died in the battle of Somme in WW 1 and my grandfather fought in WWII. While going through my grandmothers estate I found a tremendous number of items from both WWI and WWII. I found a property issue slip from WWII, however I did not see the knuckles listed. Although it was very hard to read, I was able to make out the word knife which leads me to believe the knuckles belonged to my grandfather as I found the knife posted below in the same drawer as the knuckles.

I will take the knuckles to a gun shop tomorrow and have someone look it over to make sure it is not loaded. I will also inquire about it and post what I find out tomorrow.

I appreciate all of the information and I am fascinated on how knowledgeable you all are. Very interesting, thanks.

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