Isn't the forward assist on an AR a dumb idea?

[Bulletski]

Nearly all ARs sold have a "forward assist". We all know what it's for, so no point in getting into that. If a round fails to chamber, isn't banging away on the forward assist knob exactly what you shouldn't do? Doesn't this stand more of a chance of creating a jam by mashing the round in the chamber.
If a round fails to chamber, seems to me the best thing to do is pull back on the charging handle and extract the round and hopefully when the bolt goes forward the next round will chamber. And if it doesn't then there is a deeper problem.

Am I wrong with my assessment?

 

[Mk-211]

It was never meant to beat a round into the chamber. It was meant to aid in the chambering of a round that didn't fully seat.

If you're beating on a round with it, you have real problems. Hopefully when you pull on the charging handle, you don't rip off the rear of the case.

You can buy uppers w/o a forward assist, if you don't like it.

 

[Bulletski]

Yes you can rip the head off the round BUT just means there's a bigger problem
And I know of uppers with not FA. When I build my ARs, I always get one with no FA. My brand for that is Aero Precison.

 

[Caplock]

I can't drop the bolt to fully chamber a round coyote hunting. Have to slowly let the bolt move forward....quiet as I can. Then usually have to use the forward assist to fully close the bolt. That's about all I use it for.

 

[Dr T]

Please recall that the AR was designed to be a battle rifle. Things happen in war that you never encounter in civilian life.

 

[Bulletski]

Mmmmm..........

 

[VoodooMountain]

The FA serves a purpose. It's just a purpose basically none of us really need to worry about.

 

[Bulletski]

Well, it's something unnecessary hanging on the gun. So much is made out of keeping an AR as light as possible and then they keep manufacturing ARs with these.

 

[mongoslow]

hot dirty rifles won't always fully seat a round on a mag change and if you are lucky bumping that FA will seat it and get you through a few more mag changes before you have to start cleaning it, as a civilian this isn't a problem but in a combat situation it has been necessary many times through the years I'm sure

 

[3Crows]

Just watching all of the (bad) news programing of late, I saw a news clip of a group of warriors preparing for immediate engagement and I noticed at least two of the fellows hit that forward assist.

 

[12Bravo20]

This topic can be very decisive and start arguments. It is a personal choice if you want the forward assist or not. But to say it is useless and not need is wrong.

I prefer to have the forward assist on my AR rifles. I have had to actually use the FA a few times while in combat and it works as designed. One thing to remember is to NEVER use the FA to beat a round into the chamber. If it takes more than a light tap on the FA to chamber a round then you have bigger issues that need to be addressed right away.

 

[Bulletski]

"Just watching all of the (bad) news programing of late, I saw a news clip of a group of IDF warriors preparing for immediate engagement and I noticed at least two of the fellows hit that forward assist."

Sounds like they got themselves into a bad habit...but that's my opinion.

 

[kwb377]

Well, it's something unnecessary hanging on the gun. So much is made out of keeping an AR as light as possible and then they keep manufacturing ARs with these.

"Unnecessary to you" doesn't mean unnecessary to everyone. And if the extra ounce or two is causing you grief, I'd suggest incorporating a just few minutes of exercise/weight training into your daily routine.

 

[Bulletski]

OK, I'm wrong. From now on I'll get FAs on my ARs...LOL

 

[GBExpat]

So much is made out of keeping an AR as light as possible and then they keep manufacturing ARs with these.

Manufacturing Inertia.

 

[shoobe01]

"Isn't the forward assist on an AR a dumb idea?"

Yes.

I know people like to argue it, but if you go back to the original designers (Of the AR-15. Not Stoner, but Sullivan, et al) they are hard "no." Other service branches testified no opinion or explicitly didn't want it.

Army:

...If the mechanical spring fails to close the bolt the soldier must have the capability of immediately correcting the situation without disassembling the rifle. In the present AR-15, configuration disassembly is necessary if the bolt fails to close.
Any chance, no matter how slight, of malfunction in combat due to the inability to manually close the bolt is unacceptable. The Army will not unnecessarily risk lives.

"Won't someone please think of the children!?!?!"

USAF goes the science/engineering/HF route. Not needed, for these good reasons by not just us, but ARPA, Army, the original designers. Sounds a lot like the way I write my justifications to project teams. Who then also usually ignore me, yes:


Etc.


Even in the 60s, evidence before and after one was selected (not part of original design means several competing ones. By no means was the best selected) it would do what we have now: it is almost entirely misused and if you need more than trivial forward assist: something else is wrong and you are making it worse. Tales from just getting more stuck (but will not fire and/or cycle after that) to broken parts on the gun, no forcing will make it work, to forcing a squib out of the way enough to get a cartridge in there so you can blow up the gun. It's never good.

I also contend that slick side ARs have a forward assist. If the gun doesn't go into battery I use that. The cutout for the port cover detent. Which is the right place and shape and size for your thumb to set, then push forward a bit. Yes, the gas ports are there. Don't leave your thumb there when you pull the trigger I guess.

This is the way for other guns that need a nudge forward, e.g. if you are "silent cocking" (why is your gun empty you could also ask) or for certain specific environmental conditions like cold or maritime operations. FAL users often just grabbed the bolt carrier (esp those with charger cutouts can do this), or the HK in Swedish service with a serrated thumb cutout:

Even things like the IDF FAL forward assist charging handle or the similar on the AUG are better (if extra parts) than the AR one as they do not provide an easy facility to hammer the round forward, are more useful to aid control or nudge.


Forgotten Weapons history on this if you prefer video:

Saga of the AR15 Forward Assist: A Solution Searching for a Problem

www.forgottenweapons.com

 

[film495]

I'm not fully familiar with the mechanicals of an AR, but when using friends ARs I kind of always wondered what that was really for since can't you just push the charging handle forward and do the same thing?

 

[nycmarine]

When you chamber a round prior to going into harms way, it's good to do a brass check. Don't want to hear a click when you really need a bang.

The FA helps ensure the bolt is fully forward after the brass check.

 

[Chuck R.]

I can't drop the bolt to fully chamber a round coyote hunting. Have to slowly let the bolt move forward....quiet as I can. Then usually have to use the forward assist to fully close the bolt. That's about all I use it for.

Same way I use it.

Also saves on the free floating FP contacting the primer when repeatedly chambering the same round.. like coyote hunting.

 

[Bulletski]

Makes me wonder how the AK47 has done without a FW all these decades??

 

[Mk-211]

Well, the AK charging handle was made to be kicked with a boot if necessary.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

I'm not fully familiar with the mechanicals of an AR, but when using friends ARs I kind of always wondered what that was really for since can't you just push the charging handle forward and do the same thing?

The AR charging handle is fir retracting the bolt only.
There is no mechanical contact between the charging handle and the bolt going forward.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Makes me wonder how the AK47 has done without a FW all these decades??

I have an AK variant. The charging handle can be used as a forward assist but in decades I have never needed forward assistance with an AK (or AR.)

Of course range use of an AR or AK is never as dirty as jungle or desert combat use.

 

[d2wing]

I can't drop the bolt to fully chamber a round coyote hunting. Have to slowly let the bolt move forward....quiet as I can. Then usually have to use the forward assist to fully close the bolt. That's about all I use it for.

This is what I use it for deer hunting and at other times when I want to make sure the bolt is fully seated or don't want to make noise. It's a habit from my Vietnam days. It's pretty useful for me but to each his own. It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

 

[d2wing]

Makes me wonder how the AK47 has done without a FW all these decades??

It has a bolt handle for that function.