Isn't the forward assist on an AR a dumb idea?

[Joshua M. Smith]

Always have to have beans in chili!

Nope, too much weight, and too mushy. If there's room for beans, there's room for more meat

 

[ColoradoMinuteMan]

One of my longest friendships is a US Army CSM. He is Airborne Ranger qualified and spent many of his earlier years leading LRP teams in various places. LRP is absolutely the role in which you end up humping in everything you depend on for days or a week at a time. He is a crusty ol’ bastard at this point in his career and I’ve had just about all the conversations you can have about the M4 over time (especially after reading whatever thread on the internet) and I have to tell you, he’s just never said “if only I had a slick sided M4, that would have made my hike through the Korengal Valley much more pleasant.”

Asks a soldier if they want to carry extra weight into combat. They go to fairly extreme ends to reduce their combat load. The forward assist may or may not be something they want to ditch but weight for a combat loadout is a huge factor for soldiers. They are forever overloaded.

"Ounces are pounds and pounds are pain" wasn't my phase, I learned it from some SOCOM guys I met at Ft Campbell showing me how they break down MRE's and other gear for long duration interdiction missions. The lengths those guys went to to reduce weight was pretty incredible.

 

[lysanderxiii]

Asks a soldier if they want to carry extra weight into combat. They go to fairly extreme ends to reduce their combat load. The forward assist may or may not be something they want to ditch but weight for a combat loadout is a huge factor for soldiers. They are forever overloaded.

"Ounces are pounds and pounds are pain" wasn't my phase, I learned it from some SOCOM guys I met at Ft Campbell showing me how they break down MRE's and other gear for long duration interdiction missions. The lengths those guys went to to reduce weight was pretty incredible.

It adds 0.05 pounds . . .

 

[Double Naught Spy]

It adds 0.05 pounds . . .

So as long as I don't have 20 or more on my rifle, I should be good to go?

 

[mcb]

You guys win, I have scrapped all my AR uppers without the forward assist after flogging myself with each of them for being so stupid. I have also cut off my thumbs so I am never tempted to push a bolt home through the ejection port. I will now only by Colt ARs in 556...

I presented reasons you might not want a forward assist just as other have present reasons you might want to have one. You as an individual get to evaluate those reasons and decide for yourself. As I and others have said earlier if you like it keep it, if you don't you can make do without it. I am not here to convince anyone either way just present reasons why I don't feel the need to have one.

 

[lysanderxiii]

You guys win, I have scrapped all my AR uppers without the forward assist after flogging myself with each of them for being so stupid. I have also cut off my thumbs so I am never tempted to push a bolt home through the ejection port. I will now only by Colt ARs in 556...

I presented reasons you might not want a forward assist just as other have present reasons you might want to have one. You as an individual get to evaluate those reasons and decide for yourself. As I and others have said earlier if you like it keep it, if you don't you can make do without it. I am not here to convince anyone either way just present reasons why I don't feel the need to have one.

Well, you and the USAF, agree that it isn't needed.

I, and the Army, happen to agree that it is a nice thing to have.

The two view points are not mutually exclusive, there is room for both types.

 

[mcb]

Well, you and the USAF, agree that it isn't needed.

I, and the Army, happen to agree that it is a nice thing to have.

The two view points are not mutually exclusive, there is room for both types.

Sure I have AR's both with and without a forward assist and I store them in the same gun cabinet. I only have to break up fights in the gun cabinet about once a quarter. They fight more often about which lub they like more than the forward assist.

 

[mavracer]

Someone using an AR variant as a military match rifle and occasional varmint gun (like me) and folks using an AR in hot dirty combat conditions are in radically different situations.

CMP service rifle rules require a functional FA.
If I'm remembering correct without going to look about 1/2 my ARs have one.
For run and gun games or military clones I prefer having one, otherwise meh.

 

[AK Hunter]

The only time it is useless is when it is a side charging AR upper. The FA has no use then.

 

[TTv2]

I don't see the utility of something that I'm never going to use, so much like 4 wheel drive, I don't care for the FA.

 

[marksman13]

None of us worried about the extra weight of the forward assist when I was in. I was a glorified grunt with a shovel (combat engineer) that had to hoof it right along side the infantry grunts. And the majority of us had to use the forward assist a time or two. It is always better to have than not need.

For those that will never use their AR's in a hostile environment of any kind, you can choose to have or not have the forward assist. To each their own. For those of us that have used the M16/A1/A4/M4 or AR15 in hostile environments either have used the forward assist or like having the peace of mind having it.

And for those saying to just use your thumb on the bolt, that will work just fine for hunting situations. But that method will not work in a combat, training, or competition scenario where the bolt is hot.

I think this one can be put to bed after 5 pages worth. To each their own, ue what you want and don't worry about what others use.

You keep making this argument about “those of us who have used an AR-15 in hostile environments” like there are no dissenters in that group. I used an M4 in one of the worst parts of the world and I stand by the argument that if a round does not chamber correctly, I don’t want it in the chamber. I’m ripping the charging handle back and removing the bad round. If I need to quietly chamber a round, I’m not dealing with a hot bolt or chamber. I’m not saying the FA is useless, but I don’t care for it, and I’m one of those guys who has been there and done that.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

Asks a soldier if they want to carry extra weight into combat. They go to fairly extreme ends to reduce their combat load. The forward assist may or may not be something they want to ditch but weight for a combat loadout is a huge factor for soldiers. They are forever overloaded.

"Ounces are pounds and pounds are pain" wasn't my phase, I learned it from some SOCOM guys I met at Ft Campbell showing me how they break down MRE's and other gear for long duration interdiction missions. The lengths those guys went to to reduce weight was pretty incredible.

Hmmm... the forward assist (plunger assembly, spring, and pin) plus the extra metal on the upper receiver to cast the mount weighs, what, an ounce or two?

What a stupid argument.

When I was in light infantry, it wasn't unusual to hump a a spare M60/M240/M249 barrel, ammo nutsack, tripod, 60mm mortars, hand grenades/M203 grenades/smoke grenades, illumination flares, etc....

Guess what? We didn't bitch about the alleged "extra weight" of the forward assist.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

The only downside to the forward assist, in my experience, is it sometimes gets in the way when working the charging handle.

 

[12Bravo20]

You keep making this argument about “those of us who have used an AR-15 in hostile environments” like there are no dissenters in that group. I used an M4 in one of the worst parts of the world and I stand by the argument that if a round does not chamber correctly, I don’t want it in the chamber. I’m ripping the charging handle back and removing the bad round. If I need to quietly chamber a round, I’m not dealing with a hot bolt or chamber. I’m not saying the FA is useless, but I don’t care for it, and I’m one of those guys who has been there and done that.

And when the forward assist is used correctly, you won't jam a bad round into the chamber. We were always taught to use only a light tap on the forward assist as part of SPORTS. I will also not argue that if it takes more than a light tap then other remedial actions need to be taken.

I still stand by my original statement that the forward assist is definitely not a dumb idea. The forward assist does have its place and use. For those that don't want it, then buy an upper without it.

 

[kimberkid]

Please recall that the AR was designed to be a battle rifle. Things happen in war that you never encounter in civilian life.

I think too that refinements over the years have made the fa less essential on civilian guns, I remember some of my early builds on Sendra receivers and mil-spec parts kits (because that’s all there were available in the early 80’s) and shooting surplus ammo, it was essential because otherwise you had to open the action, remove the bolt/carrier and knock it back with a cleaning rod.
It didn’t happen often and I never figured out if it was the gun, ammo or mag. This was all before the M-4 cuts in the upper & barrel.

 

[midnightmayhem87]

"Just watching all of the (bad) news programing of late, I saw a news clip of a group of IDF warriors preparing for immediate engagement and I noticed at least two of the fellows hit that forward assist."

Sounds like they got themselves into a bad habit...but that's my opinion.

Doesn't sound like a bad habit to me. It's a non visual reference. If your eyes are up, not on the gun. Then this split second bump could rack the action into battery instead of waiting till you pull up and gun doesn't go bang. Then you have to change position again just to hit the fa. No different than when I run my thumb down the back of a semi auto pistol to make sure slide is forward. That way if slide isn't forward. I can bump the slide. Same as forward assist. its just like a 3/4 impact gun. Just another tool that when used properly it helps. Improperly, used it ****s everything up.

 

[BreechFace]

I’ll take, my AR’s will all have FA for a $1,000 Alex.

 

[jeepnik]

The rifle was a bad idea from the start. Almost 7 decades and they are still trying to get it right.

 

[mcb]

The rifle was a bad idea from the start. Almost 7 decades and they are still trying to get it right.

LOL, it certainly had its growing pains early on (but so did most other service rifles to various degrees) but it would be hard to prove that it has NOT matured into an exceptionally good service rifle and been successfully adapted to so many other applications. You don't have to like it but it is, by all accounts, an extraordinarily successful firearms platform for both the military and civilian users.

 

[BreechFace]

7 decades as a main line service rifle. Seems to me that Stoner hit a grand slam with the AR design. Only the longest service rifle in the history of warfare, across multiple continents and many countries.

The fact that they are continuing to improve with better metals, coatings, lug design, gas systems for improved cartridges, etc is a testament as to the fact that the platform is sound.

No doubt the stoner design had its problems due to big government. Using excess powder from previous military rifles which caused maintenance, reliability issues in Vietnam, along with poor choices of coatings and the ridiculous statement given to the troops that maintenance was not necessary and not widely issuing cleaning kits due to this erroneous belief.. More like an inept government than platform.

 

[herrwalther]

The rifle was a bad idea from the start. Almost 7 decades and they are still trying to get it right.

Not sure what you are smoking.The DOD has launched multiple investigations into soldiers and Marines for doing head shots on enemy combatants in Iraq and Afghanistan, worrying that service members were doing execution style engagements. What the DOD usually discovers is the engagements are happening at a suitable distance, the rifles are just that accurate. And the head is the only part of the enemy that was available. So much for "trying to get the rifle right."

 

[GRIZ22]

It's a dumb idea if you've never had.to use it.

I've been using ARs since 1968. Used them in social situations. I'm not a special operator, SF, Ranger, or Commando. I've used both with and without a FA. I've used it maybe 10 times since then but glad.it was there.

The M16 had a few teething problems. They were all solved by the time I started using them. I did as I was trained and had no problems. I laugh at those who've discovered using a wet bolt. LSA or Break Free work fine. I prefer Dri Slide for the bolt and carrier. I've used it since 1968.

JMO