Its about to get more expensive to enjoy our hobby
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EricTheBarbarian
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I
The way I understand it, rapidly growing countries such as China are raising the prices of metals. China is a large importer of metals from the US and they are what is driving the price up, their demand. China and Japan need materials to produce the large amount of goods they export to the US and elsewhere. Japan is an island country and gets the majority of their raw materials from outside sources. There is plenty of copper to go around and I believe I have heard sources that say about 2/3 of all of the copper ever mined is still in circulation through recycling. Copper is a main component of manufacturing brass if you are wondering how its related to ammo aside from copper jackets. recycling is far more cost effective for metals than mining for new metal. At one time however in the early 90s russia could produce new steel cheaper than the united states could recycle their own, and that is one of the reasons most steel companies have went belly up, in ohio anyways. I would think the Army would have had large stockpiles of .223 in case a war or something happens since we have been using that caliber for almost 50 yrs rather than needing a bunch of newly produced ammo when something happens.
The best deal I have found on ammo is the bulgarian surplus 762x54r. I bought tins of 330 rounds for about 30 dollars. When i shot all the rounds I saved the brass eventhough it isnt good for reloading. On $30 worth of ammo I got a return of $10 worth of scrap brass so it ended up costing me only $20 to shoot 330 rounds. Rising prices now dont really effect me so much however, from reading posts on here it has convinced me into keep a large stockpile of ammo incase zombies attack and/or guns and ammo are outlawed.
The way I understand it, rapidly growing countries such as China are raising the prices of metals. China is a large importer of metals from the US and they are what is driving the price up, their demand. China and Japan need materials to produce the large amount of goods they export to the US and elsewhere. Japan is an island country and gets the majority of their raw materials from outside sources. There is plenty of copper to go around and I believe I have heard sources that say about 2/3 of all of the copper ever mined is still in circulation through recycling. Copper is a main component of manufacturing brass if you are wondering how its related to ammo aside from copper jackets. recycling is far more cost effective for metals than mining for new metal. At one time however in the early 90s russia could produce new steel cheaper than the united states could recycle their own, and that is one of the reasons most steel companies have went belly up, in ohio anyways. I would think the Army would have had large stockpiles of .223 in case a war or something happens since we have been using that caliber for almost 50 yrs rather than needing a bunch of newly produced ammo when something happens.
The best deal I have found on ammo is the bulgarian surplus 762x54r. I bought tins of 330 rounds for about 30 dollars. When i shot all the rounds I saved the brass eventhough it isnt good for reloading. On $30 worth of ammo I got a return of $10 worth of scrap brass so it ended up costing me only $20 to shoot 330 rounds. Rising prices now dont really effect me so much however, from reading posts on here it has convinced me into keep a large stockpile of ammo incase zombies attack and/or guns and ammo are outlawed.
xsquidgator
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I work in medical radiation physics, and this topic of metal scarcity came up at a recent short course I took. We typically shield certain radiation treatment room walls with up to an inch or two of lead (do the math, it's a LOT of lead!) and some of the construction contractors were commenting on lead prices. I think last week one said lead was up to $1.70 something a pound, when it had typically been in 30 cents per pound range only a couple of years ago. Not getting any better in the near future either. According to this speaker we had, most lead you or I buy is recycled from somewhere else as lead mining worldwide is down. Biggest sources of mined lead were Australia and China; Australia pretty much shut down their lead mines a few years ago for some reason, and China is still mining lead but is keeping a lot more of it for their domestic industries instead of putting it on the market.
For shielding purposes, concrete looks better all the time, provided there's room for a foot or two of concrete shielding instead of an inch of lead.
Made me think though, hmm, we do have some lead bricks lying around, hmm, if I were to buy the gear for casting that's a LOT of bullets! Hmmm...
For shielding purposes, concrete looks better all the time, provided there's room for a foot or two of concrete shielding instead of an inch of lead.
Made me think though, hmm, we do have some lead bricks lying around, hmm, if I were to buy the gear for casting that's a LOT of bullets! Hmmm...
Prince Yamato
Member
Can't we just make PLASTIC bullets?
redneck2
Member
What I heard at a recent sales meeting......
A majority of the world's copper is mined in Chile. Supposedly China has a 15 year deal to buy 100% of their production.
At least some mines in the US switch back and forth between between products produced. For example, some of the mines in Colorado produce molybdenum, copper, gold, etc. They set up for a certain product and run that, then switch off when the prices change. Look at the write ups on mining companies. They never just mine one thing, so I suspect it's true.
Anyway, the Corporation I work for does a lot of business overseas and China is sucking up everything like a vacuum cleaner. It isn't just metals. Polymers for plastic, waste water, and paints are also in short supply.
And, as already stated, environmental laws shut down our domestic production, then we wonder why we don't have anything. The BP refinery in Whiting, IN wants to raise the amount of ammonia they discharge due to the lower grade of crude oil. The proposed discharge is lower than the latest (stricter) limits, but the politicians are having a field day.
You have a choice. Allow industrial production or do without. Can't have both. That's the reason most stuff is coming in from China and Mexico. Less regulations to deal with.
You can bitch and whine all you want about ammo production, but I suspect it's a drop in the bucket compared to industrial production, and industrial production is what China and Mexico are into.
A majority of the world's copper is mined in Chile. Supposedly China has a 15 year deal to buy 100% of their production.
At least some mines in the US switch back and forth between between products produced. For example, some of the mines in Colorado produce molybdenum, copper, gold, etc. They set up for a certain product and run that, then switch off when the prices change. Look at the write ups on mining companies. They never just mine one thing, so I suspect it's true.
Anyway, the Corporation I work for does a lot of business overseas and China is sucking up everything like a vacuum cleaner. It isn't just metals. Polymers for plastic, waste water, and paints are also in short supply.
And, as already stated, environmental laws shut down our domestic production, then we wonder why we don't have anything. The BP refinery in Whiting, IN wants to raise the amount of ammonia they discharge due to the lower grade of crude oil. The proposed discharge is lower than the latest (stricter) limits, but the politicians are having a field day.
You have a choice. Allow industrial production or do without. Can't have both. That's the reason most stuff is coming in from China and Mexico. Less regulations to deal with.
You can bitch and whine all you want about ammo production, but I suspect it's a drop in the bucket compared to industrial production, and industrial production is what China and Mexico are into.
James T Thomas
Member
doom and gloom
Don't tell me you THR sophisicates are going to listen to "chicken little!"
Haven't you read about who is lurking here, all the time, on THR?
You should learn to recognize the shrill a frightened voice by now.
Don't tell me you THR sophisicates are going to listen to "chicken little!"
Haven't you read about who is lurking here, all the time, on THR?
You should learn to recognize the shrill a frightened voice by now.
The situation won't change as long as we have self-inflating currencies backed by nothing. Such things are bound to happen indefinitely, regardless of world affairs.
Seriously, that's not nice, nor is it too intelligent.
Someone making $40k a year with a family (that is, wife and children) and a mortgage doesn't have much expendable income. It's different if you've got no kids, and even more different if you're single. $40k is about the median wage in America, so it's safe to assume that there are a lot of shooters in a similar situation.
$40k a year is $3333 or so a year before taxes, maybe $2500 after taxes if a person is fortunate. For a family of four, you're lucky to get insurance for $500 a month, a medium 3- or 4-bedroom house for $700, (non-restraunt) food for $500, utilities for $400 (water, electricity, heat, internet - cable, if you do that kind of thing), and vehicles and various other expenses for $200-500 (depending on how much you drive and whether you own the vehicle). Then you've got things like clothes, various 'kid' expenses, and what have you - maybe $100-200 a month.
So, on the conservative side of things, you're looking at $2400 a month in expenses - and that's not considering a cent for incidental costs, savings, investments, or what have you. So yeah, these ammo costs hit people pretty hard. (Think: people who are making $15/hour with a college degree who get to shoot maybe once a month because of an extra $200+ in college loans to pay back.)
Personally, I'm going to try and deal with the high price problem by getting as many .22lr rifles, pistols and/or conversions as I have and using them more exclusively at the range. I'm also going to start reloading so I can focus more on accurate shooting (because I can already shoot well enough that the variance in commercial ammo doesn't allow me to improve). It's very easy to go through 300-400 rounds at the range every week or every other week with a pistol, so I imagine a .22lr 1911 would be preferable, in terms of cost. I'll still get the trigger time that gives experience and reflex, even if I'm not 100% intune with the recoil...
Seriously, that's not nice, nor is it too intelligent.
Someone making $40k a year with a family (that is, wife and children) and a mortgage doesn't have much expendable income. It's different if you've got no kids, and even more different if you're single. $40k is about the median wage in America, so it's safe to assume that there are a lot of shooters in a similar situation.
$40k a year is $3333 or so a year before taxes, maybe $2500 after taxes if a person is fortunate. For a family of four, you're lucky to get insurance for $500 a month, a medium 3- or 4-bedroom house for $700, (non-restraunt) food for $500, utilities for $400 (water, electricity, heat, internet - cable, if you do that kind of thing), and vehicles and various other expenses for $200-500 (depending on how much you drive and whether you own the vehicle). Then you've got things like clothes, various 'kid' expenses, and what have you - maybe $100-200 a month.
So, on the conservative side of things, you're looking at $2400 a month in expenses - and that's not considering a cent for incidental costs, savings, investments, or what have you. So yeah, these ammo costs hit people pretty hard. (Think: people who are making $15/hour with a college degree who get to shoot maybe once a month because of an extra $200+ in college loans to pay back.)
Personally, I'm going to try and deal with the high price problem by getting as many .22lr rifles, pistols and/or conversions as I have and using them more exclusively at the range. I'm also going to start reloading so I can focus more on accurate shooting (because I can already shoot well enough that the variance in commercial ammo doesn't allow me to improve). It's very easy to go through 300-400 rounds at the range every week or every other week with a pistol, so I imagine a .22lr 1911 would be preferable, in terms of cost. I'll still get the trigger time that gives experience and reflex, even if I'm not 100% intune with the recoil...
ruthless
Member
It didn't bother me so much when the firearms themselves went up. We already have more than we know what to do with. But, darn, this hurts. Hubby and I are both shooters. About the only other interest we have is the tv. I think we've been shot were we live.
ruthless
Member
It didn't bother me so much when the firearms themselves went up. We already have more than we know what to do with. But, darn, this hurts. Hubby and I are both shooters. About the only other interest we have is the tv. I think we've been shot were we live. Hot Springs AROutlaws
Member
I take it you don't have a wife and kids...
You paid off a home in 6 years and only work 60 hours a week? Thats not "normal". I doubt you turn wrenches or work in a factory. Probably a tech job or something else office related. I am sure at the end of the year you have pulled no less than $120k+ to afford an H2 and a home in only 6 years. And for the record, paying off a $250,000 home in 6 years with NO interest is $3472.22 a month.
Lets knock that down to $2777.77 if you put $50k on it from the get go. But I don't get the impression you would buy a $250k home.I am sorry, but your last 3 posts I read said nothing but, "shooting is my cheapest hobby, outside of counting my money." After your mortgage, H2 payment, and your drag racing hobby....I don't think things add up...except maybe that fat paycheck that is well above "average".
Shooting probably is cheap to you. You can take your "real job" and shove it. Yes, you offended me greatly with that post. I am not a supporter of class war, but I am not a supporter of rubbing stuff in peoples faces either. You don't have to think the world is owed to you because you can't afford a yacht or plane and you mention to someone who thinks its normal that the average Americans doesn't own those things.
hankdatank1362
Member
I learned a long time ago that money means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Hell, one of the richest men I knew drove an old F-100 (yes, I said one-hundred), wore tattered overalls, and was worth tens of millions. Kept Thousands in cash on him at all times, in a Taylor's Pride Pouch.
I go to school and so does my wife, full time. I bartend. She's a nurse's aid / phlebotomist. I hope to be LEO, she hopes to be a nurse. I bust my tail so that our doublewide and cars are paid for. Yes, paid off. It ain't much, but it's paid for. Between that, bills, and putting food on the table and diapers on my boy, it gets expensive. Enough so that the rising cost of my one and pretty much only hobby (shooting) becomes rather prohibitive.
But, you know what, Mr. Drag racing, Robb Report reading, H2 driver? I'm still not too poor to buy you a drink. So here's a tall glass of ****, on me. Hell, make it a double. Put it on my tab.
You big baller you.
I go to school and so does my wife, full time. I bartend. She's a nurse's aid / phlebotomist. I hope to be LEO, she hopes to be a nurse. I bust my tail so that our doublewide and cars are paid for. Yes, paid off. It ain't much, but it's paid for. Between that, bills, and putting food on the table and diapers on my boy, it gets expensive. Enough so that the rising cost of my one and pretty much only hobby (shooting) becomes rather prohibitive.
But, you know what, Mr. Drag racing, Robb Report reading, H2 driver? I'm still not too poor to buy you a drink. So here's a tall glass of ****, on me. Hell, make it a double. Put it on my tab.
You big baller you.
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