It's never when you expect it

[SHusky57]

I live out in the country and we do have a problem with dogs. Both strays and one of our neighbors who for some reason can't get a fence or keep their dogs in the yard.

It's about 10:45 pm, I'm taking my trash out for the night. I have to walk about 35 yards up to the road to take out the trash. About 7 yards from my front porch, I hear running and see a big black dog (about 85 pounds if I had to guess) run right in front of me. Luckily, it ended up just running off my property.... what it usually does. It's like it knows it's not supposed to be on my property, but doesn't bother running away until I come outside. It usually hangs out where there is a blind spot so I can't see out the window.

Anyway, my main point, is I wasn't expecting anything. It's sunday night, light rain.... I've got my flashlight to help me see and my hi-power on my hip. When the dog bolts across, the only thing my subconscious can think to do is get in a defensive posture (right foot back, 45 degrees, right hand going to hip for weapon, left hand up to block) and then I shout out "Ahhh *expletive*". Shouted it in a long and drawn out fashion. I don't know why, when I get surprised I just yell and go into Judo mode. It worked, dog ran off.

The only reason I bring this up is because I've been struggling about carry weapons. What safeties I want on them, if I prefer DA to SA, etc. Personally, tonight helped me get some perspective.

Without getting into the this gun is better than that gun debate, all I want to say.... is that when caught by surprise, I had a split second of panic.... before I could cognitively evaluate the situation and react (other than screaming and going into a defensive posture, which I guess is a step up above doing nothing). Had the dog attacked me, every nano-second would have counted and my brain's response already wasted one of them for me.

There are times in parking lots where I can see someone shady and avoid them or prepare myself, I've even engaged in verbal judo with a shady panhandler in a dark wal-mart parking lot once (told him firmly he needs to go back in the store and maintained control while keeping my back to the car and a defensive posture, the command voice works well on humans and even animals).

But, rather than go on and on.... I'll just say. It's the weirdest thing to get caught by surprise. I can imagine it would be similar to hearing someone break in the house while you are in a deep sleep. I don't know how you react. I just start screaming. I guess subconsciously my Viking battlecry helps to get my adrenaline going while hopefully off-balancing the other person. Weird.

But if the dog had come straight at me at the speed it was going, I probably wouldn't of even had time to get my gun out, it seemed like the blink of an eye. It's crazy how fast things can happen when you get caught by surprise. And it's crazy how dogs run away when you yell really loudly at them. I hope I didn't freak out the neighbors.

 

[David E]

What guns do you own now?

Which of those do you shoot best ?

 

[SHusky57]

I have a lot.... but the ones I have been rotating around are the Browning Hi-power, a SW 442 (when I need something small), a Glock 36 and a Glock 21.

I shoot the Glocks the best and they are incredibly light, but I don't really feel 100% comfortable with the light trigger and no manual safety. So the Hi-power and the 442 are what I am carrying most....

The guns that are relegated to the safe right now are the Beretta PX4 and the Bersa 380. Both good guns, but considering I usually carry in a thumbreak.... between the thumbreak, the manual safety, and the DA first shot it's a lot of effort to get them in action.

The Hi-power has the frame mounted safety opposed to slide mounted, and Single-action. The 442 has a heavy DA trigger but no safeties. It is not a shooter by any means, but a compromise and I will probably use it extensively this summer when it's +90 degrees outside.

All of my guns I can hit center mass at 3-7 yards.
Beyond 7 yards, the Hi-power and Glocks outshine the others if you include the DA first shot of the Beretta and Bersa.

So to quickly answer your questions:
1. A lot
2. Glock 21, Glock 30, and Glock 36.... followed by Browning Hi-power. The BHP might win as I am practicing extensively with it. Glock 21 with TLR-1 light is my bedside gun, it's rather large for carry anyway. The Glock 36 I can carry IWB, and have done so. The 442 is when I need to pocket or ankle carry. The BHP is really growing on me, and I am curious to see after a few months of range sessions if I shoot it better than anything else.

Last note: Glocks have unusually good grip angles for me even though I hear from everyone else that they are terrible. I don't know if it's the same angle as an X-box controller or what, but it fits like a glove and they are so incredibly light. Their trigger is the lightest and shortest pull of all my guns, the quickest reset. I think with lots of practice though, the BHP will give them a run for their money.

 

[David E]

As with any gun, YOU are the primary safety. Finger stays off the trigger until the sights are on target. (this does not necessarily mean having a sight picture on target)

Any gun carried in a pocket probably won't be up to the task if taken by surprise unless you already had your hand in the pocket.

Any of the Glocks or BHP would be a dandy gun for what you're talking about. A proper IWB rig would allow the 21 and 30 to be carriedn in comfort.

You might consider taking a class with a Glock to gain a higher comfort level with carrying them.

Some argue that having a safety on the gun that must be disengaged is an unintentional suicide waiting to happen. (what if you miss the safety or just plain forget to take it off under stress? they say.)

It seems to me that you are lacking the required comfort level to carry a Glock, or maybe even the BHP. This is not the fault of the gun. It's a matter of you getting the experience needed to gain that confidence.

.

 

[SHusky57]

I am comfortable with the BHP and everything else.

But the Glocks have such a light trigger pull and short length of pull, combined with no safety. I have great gun handling skills, but on every rare occasion a cop goes to holster and something gets caught in the trigger guard. I just prefer the insurance of having a thumb safety.

And I feel quite confident with my BHP - the point of my post is that things happen so fast that it's really important to know you can operate your gun based on muscle memory as you may not be cognizant when taken by surprise.

 

[SWDoc]

SHusky, try not to dismiss the glocks so quickly. No manual safety, but are drop safe, and have to have a finger on the trigger to fire. Plenty of internal safety systems. As for the light trigger pull. Factory should be about 5-6lbs, but if you like heavier, it is a small deal to get a spring in 8 or 10lb. Sometimes called a New York Trigger. If somehow you have got one of the competition 3.5lb springs, then yes, you need to beef that up for carry.

As was said before, the finger off the trigger until you are on target is the key to safety with ANY pistol, and should be a part of your training regardless of what choice you make. Personally, I carry a 1911 when taking full size with me, but still have enough serious Glock-o-philes training with me (people whose opinions I respect) that I believe it is a good choice and should not be eliminated so quickly.

The ND's you hear about, regardless of WHAT is claimed, ALL involve a finger on the trigger.

Length of trigger travel? I prefer a pistol with a short reset. Get used to catching the link (if you are not already training that) and then that glock trigger shines.

So in your dog experience and the questions it got you to asking, maybe a glockish point-and-click pistol is actually more likely to be what you want in a high stress situation.

Give it a chance. Good for you, critically evaluating your carry choices.

Steve

 

[sm]

One never knows the where or when of the next encounter. - C.R.Sam

Software, not Hardware.

Since Internet is global, one has to keep in mind, not all persons can carry a handgun concealed.

This is where I get irked at folks "trying to buy skill and targets". These folks carry on about hardware.
Platforms, makes , models, gauges, calibers, ammunition , etc.

Some would say go around with a Ultimate Extreme Shotgun , slung, with 37 pounds of useless crap to take out the trash.
Others say one is a total idiot if they do not have a AR with umpteen bazillion 30 round mags, going out to the front porch, much less taking out the trash.

Me?
What about Motion Lights, that might discourage critters from coming up to the house?
Same lights would light up dark areas, and assist one while taking out the trash, or any activity after dark.

It is hard to beat, a good pc of hickory, I am partial to axe handles, about 28" long.
Even a cracked one, with electrical tape, is a dandy item to have around the property.

Hardware: Gun fit to shooter.
Gun fit encompasses a whole lot. Not only how it mates to one's hands as so far as grip, reaching trigger, also "point ability".
Meaning the gun is more of an natural extension of self.

That BHP, is going to be hard to beat. IMO/IME, it is one of five guns, that fits 90% of all hands.

Training matter, just get to where the correct basics are so ingrained.
There is a lot of truth to "beware the person that shoots one gun- as they know that gun".

Surprise?
Again, Software, then Hardware.

Motion lights, you know the property better than anything else, the dark areas are lit up , because you know where you would hide to "take you down".
You accessed, (software) and have taken prudent , preventative steps.

You have trained yourself, to use the lights, to take note of "what is not normal" , which is often times better than looking for something out of the norm.
Just like deer, and other hunting. Don't look for the critter, instead what is not normal for the habitat hunting in.

Another thing, emergency lighting that comes on when the power is out, is not just for indoor use.
These work fine and dandy outdoors.
Say in the event a criminal chooses to turn off power and landline telephone.

Solar lights, these decorative ones, are another idea. Put some chat, gravel, or "pretty rocks" and folks will think "decorating" , which a lot folks do ...
These do work for securing the property too.
I suggest something "scrunchy" , as you know your place better than anyone else and you can use the "scrunch" to get an early warning signal.



Another simple trick, is to stick a baby monitor outside, where you exit.
Just stick it up out of the way, hidden, still effective.
Now you can listen before you head out, and whomever inside can listen to you.
Codewords, simple, nothing to tip anyone off.
Communication is the key, to so much.

Dawg?
Well you might hear them before stepping out. Especially if they get into that scrunchy stuff.
[ Use a kid , since they weight less than adults, to test "scrunchy" factor] Folks inside can hear the commotion, and codewords will communicate if other trouble is outside.
Folks inside can then go to practiced plans.

Instead of running out and getting in the way of a gunshot, or being bitten by a rabid dawg, or running into the hands of criminals.
You, or others inside.
Just implement some Software, and practiced plans.

Don't go where trouble is, leave if trouble shows, and have skillsets to deal with trouble if need.

We are human, we cannot be in condition yellow 24/7/52. The human body simply will not let us.

So we must first accept the fact, we cannot be at the top of our awareness game all the time, and accept we are human.

Then use Mindset, Skillsets, 'then' Toolsets to keep us safe, and to deal with problems.

The BHP is a fine choice, the single action trigger affords quick effective hits.
Just me, I think you have the right hardware.
For fun, you might try a revolver, and see what you think.

And snag a small compressed air horn. Check the marine / boating sections of a store.

Mess with this horn..
Those things are loud!
Dawgs have more sensitive hearing than humans, as we all know.
My experience is, even rabid dawgs, raccoons, opossums and other critters, do not like it very much.

Not to mention, folks inside are not going to be the only ones hearing that sucker if you let loose with it.
Folks living around you, will as well.

Oh, one more thing-
It is darn difficult to beat a 3 D cell Maglight in the back pocket or using with Nite-Ize Grip-n-Clip [tm].

http://www.niteize.com/productdetail.php?category_id=28&product_id=71


Which reminds me, I could use another Grin-n-Clip for my 3 D cell Mag light.

Yeah the light won't reach to the moon like some lights...
Then again some of us learned to use a light with a gun when flash lights were chrome with intermittent buttons.
To use as a impact weapon, ID targets , and using with handgun, rifle and shotgun.

Those chrome lights had a nice "D" ring, or carry ring.
Maglight came out in 1979 and <snicker> this new high tech light meant "we" had to learn some new strategy and tactics with it.

(The company is older, just it was '79 when Maglite started hitting the market, and Police agencies went to these. Big reason, was the lights were more water resistant, and took more abuse).


So we essentially made our own dealie, like the grin-n-clip.
WE simply altered the one we had for the chrome flash lights.

Now you know how to run a pistol, pump shotgun, lever action rifle and whatever else, with a "old fashioned flashlight".

I done dated myself again...

You can thank the same folks that brought you NASCAR for that "original" grip-n-clip.
Southern folks, making moonshine whiskey.


*hehehe*

 

[Old Guy]

SN wrote, well a few things...

Me?
What about Motion Lights, that might discourage critters from coming up to the house?
Same lights would light up dark areas, and assist one while taking out the trash, or any activity after dark.

It is hard to beat, a good pc of hickory, I am partial to axe handles, about 28" long.
Even a cracked one, with electrical tape, is a dandy item to have around the property.

Good advice, stick in hand, no need to go for it! Lights great, idea.

You might have a 3.5 connector in your Glock, if so, get a NY light spring fitted, that plus the 3.5 connector gives a great about 6 lb pull, about the same as your HP but smoother.

 

[sm]

Thank you sir.

Chrome flashlights: The original "motion light".
*snicker*


Lewis Grizzard-
I'll shorten this...

Driver runs a stop sign, and gets pulled over. Cop sez the sign says "stop".
Driver sez he "slowed down".
Driver also smarts off and cop just starts wailing away on this driver with his night stick and asks the driver- "you want me to stop, or slow down?"

Now you know why grandpa's old chrome issued flashlight, has them dents in it.

*whups*

 

[SgtDinosaur]

Now I remember why that big old D cell Maglite is in my car. Flashlights are legal even here in California. Good advice there, SM.

 

[SHusky57]

I got the glock stock with the 5.5 lb connector.

I like revolvers as well, and perhaps shooting a DA revolvers and Beretta makes the 5.5 lbs seem like nothing in comparison.

I had a flashlight with me so I did something right .

In response to the Glock ND/AD part, I do know of a few cases where it wasn't a trigger on the finger but something got caught inside the trigger guard (string from a jacket, holster strap, etc.) and caused an AD/ND.

A good LED light is really helpful, those things can be blinding.

 

[Dr. Fresh]

You could also carry the Bersa or another DA auto with the safety off. I carry my S&W 59 like that, and it's pretty quick to deploy.

 

[sm]

SHusky57,

I just noticed you were in Oklahoma.
I have spent time in OK, and out in the country.

Wind.
Not sure where you are, and I don't want to know, still that incessant wind, will not only drive you batty, grate your nerves, it also is a good tool for evil, and a hindrance for law abiding.

Evil has always used "nature" to its advantage. Dark, rain, and wind.

Besides the fact wind lessens one's ability to hear, wind also uses up (if you will) energies of the senses.
You simply get fed up, worn down, short on nerves, and are not at the top of your game.
When one is "drained" they are more prone to make mistakes, pure and simple.


Re: Flashlight.

Here too, there is no holy grail or absolute.
There is a place for a small, lightweight light, that is very bright, and with LEDs we get longer life.

There is also a place for incandescent, where one can better see colors, and most often the "throw" is better on a incandescent.
Maglites, and others that allow one to adjust the beam, do have a very valid place, in the staying safe department.

Again, not everyone can carry a gun. Folks live in restricted areas of the USA, and in other countries.

In the USA...
Well, it always made sense to me, for a person under age 21, to have good light in the vehicle, in their room, college dorm, in a hotel while traveling...etc.

It does not hurt for someone over age 21 to have one either.
Sometimes one does not need to light 'em up on the moon, instead more down to earth.

Note: Smaller hands do very well with Maglite C cell lights , I recommend the 3 cell one most often.

Bigger hands can still use this light, still one is wise to consider the hands of the smallest person that might have to employ this tool.

Just the simple incandescent is all one needs...
Oh, the AA Mag lite, is handy so if a combo pack is on the rack, snag this one.

Your 16 year old kid, especially daughter, has a right for a good light going down the road to run an errand, at night in a vehicle.
Car trouble happens...

Keep in mind, what tools for tasks, no tool is ever better than the user of a tool and Mindset.

 

[Kind of Blued]

SHusky57,
My advice is, as sm often says, software. Develop your software.

Unload a Glock, draw it a couple hundred times with your trigger finger indexing the side.

Walk around with it in your hand if you can, with your finger along the side.

You should get to the point where putting your finger on the trigger feels about as natural as sitting backwards on the toilet (not that I've tried it... )

The whole yelling thing, in my mind, isn't necesarily a bad thing. With animals at least, they're usually just looking to defend themselves. Making your presence known informs them that you know they are there, and you and the animal will usually back down simultaneously.

Good on you for having a gun, AND a flashlight, even on a "routine trash run". Like you said, you never know when you'll need either.

On that note, my flashlight just broke.

 

[Hungry Seagull]

A few calls to the animal control officer took care of our dog problem. Next time there will either be a taser fry or a CCW shooting of the attacking animal in self defense and that will be the end of it. But I will be sure to allow animal to bite me first.

Im past the point of caring because the neighbor refuses to maintain control of the dogs. So... one day....

If I have to be positive about it, it's hard for a prowler to get near my place because of these dogs that get loose at will.

 

[Corporal K]

I was bluff-charged by a black bear while hiking here in Colorado. I had a Glock 21 on my hip, but it happened SO fast, that I just had time to clear the holster. The bear darted off when I made the movement, so I didn't fire, but I'm glad I didn't have a safety or a long pull for the first shot.

Of course, .45ACP isn't the best bear cartridge, but that's another story.

 

[SHusky57]

Bears are pretty smart

I'm sticking with the BHP and the SW442 for now.... going to try the BHP at my first ISPC event tonight. Should help speed up my reaction times.

 

[WTBguns10kOK]

Don't let yourself be convinced that everyone can carry a Glock. Some just don't like them. They feel like crap to certain people and the lack of manual or even grip safety is just annoying to certain people as well.

First, you're not a cop (guessing) who needs instantaneous draw every minute of his workday, and second, we're all human. Doesn't matter how much you train, anyone can still have a momentary lapse in judgment. It's just garbage to try and say that everyone can train until they feel comfortable with them...its insulting actually to know what choice you or I should make. With a manual safety, at least you have a choice how to carry.

As far as your concern that something could get wedged in the trigger guard and fire a Glock, I agree. I'm not sure why someone assured you that every instance of an ND/AD with a Glock involved a finger pulling the trigger. Amazing omniscience.