I've seen some cringe worthy acts at the range but this is.....
- Thread starter Alte Schule
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Zaydok Allen
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Good god.
The problem here folks is when these fools die in these two examples, all gun owners will be portrayed as stupid, irresponsible, and incapable of making good decisions.
Social Darwinism at work yes, but we can't let this kind of reckless behavior go without chastisement. To do so invites attack.
Fine Figure of a Man
Member
Photos are from a James Yeager training class.
He later defended it claiming they had not broken any gun safety rules.
G'dale Mike
Member
“And now students, since you have conquered this level, we move on to the next level. You will now shoot between each other’s legs as they walk in front of you. Long strides are recomended for the front row participants”.
JeffG
Member
Instructor to instructor: "Not one of those dummies objected to that...fail them all."
22250Rem
Member
............ Which is why I couldn't believe that video was for real; and felt that it was staged to stereotype gun owners in a very bad way. Anti gun interests will resort to some blatantly false portrayals to sway public opinions on matters like this.
MTMilitiaman
Member
I've seen a video on Larry Vickers channel with some Russian spec ops doing some crazy stuff in training, but that is top tier military. And let's be honest, everyone knows Ivan is crazy to begin with. This video goes beyond crazy into blatant stupidity.
How is it not one of those guys has the sense to say, "hell no?"
I am hoping to get out with a friend enough times this spring and summer to eventually to live fire bounding maneuvers with him, but you don't intentionally run in front of someone operating a firearm when bounding, and more importantly, bounding has a tactically sound point. There is a method to the madness. This stuff is just ludicrous. It's asking for a bullet to the spine.
How is it not one of those guys has the sense to say, "hell no?"
I am hoping to get out with a friend enough times this spring and summer to eventually to live fire bounding maneuvers with him, but you don't intentionally run in front of someone operating a firearm when bounding, and more importantly, bounding has a tactically sound point. There is a method to the madness. This stuff is just ludicrous. It's asking for a bullet to the spine.
Corpral_Agarn
Member
Would never take a class from that guy, personally.
He did a class out here in CA and one of the instructors had an ND while stomping on his loaded pistol to demonstrate that it's a tool not... something else.
You wouldn't catch me purposely damaging any of my guns, either, though. If they get scratched, fine, but on purpose? nah.
That being said, people have benefited from his class... It's just that I will not be.
Corpral_Agarn
Member
Partner drills are fun and can be greatly beneficial.
But with a partner the number of times they are directly in front of you is minimized and, of course, you are not relying on 8 different people to not make a mistake.
Zerodefect
member
Lots of weird in those pics.
Man. who's life is worth less than a camera tripod.
Fanny pack.
Nobody picks up their shotgun shells.
People rolling around on the ground in a sea of plastic litter.
Erika still has my shirt.
Cory, Hhhhhnnnnnnnnnngggggg...........................
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That was my question!!!!!
FUBAR to say the least.
The video is from some place called Rockwell Tactical in PA.
The owner/trainer (?) was defending the actions last week. (on another site)
Stating the class was full of experienced people, etc. Yet I have to seriously doubt those claims with the video evidence.
Fine Figure of a Man
Member
Educated idiots maybe.
TomJ
Contributing Member
The following is their explanation. Even after listening to it, it's still puzzling to me why anyone would agree to do this.
TomJ
Contributing Member
4. According to the video, after doing this people come back to do it again.
This kinda reminds me of what happened in Punta Gorda, Florida couple years ago.
The local police invited the public to participate in some confrontational exercise’s (shoot, no shoot); unfortunately the officer involved forgot to unload his gun. Tragic outcome for all involved.
Hard to believe and harder still to understand how we humans can train, retrain, double check and still screw things up so horribly. This is for real.
http://www.winknews.com/2018/05/04/...iss-shooting-case-former-punta-gorda-officer/
The local police invited the public to participate in some confrontational exercise’s (shoot, no shoot); unfortunately the officer involved forgot to unload his gun. Tragic outcome for all involved.
Hard to believe and harder still to understand how we humans can train, retrain, double check and still screw things up so horribly. This is for real.
http://www.winknews.com/2018/05/04/...iss-shooting-case-former-punta-gorda-officer/
Scooter22
Member
They used to have safe spaces for people like that. It was called The Nut House. Scary thing is that bunch drives too. I didn't see the bus with the big letter.....oh that wouldn't be PC.
Wisco
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Dumb.
The video was dumb. The explanation video was dumb. The instructors are dumb. The fatality that eventually happens will be dumb.
I know I’m just a guy on the internet, but the LEAST I’d say to their face is that they’re dumb.
Nonsensical. Irresponsible. Negligent.
Maybe they can devise a course of fire where the trainees are exposed to someone shooting back at them with live rounds...or maybe even shoot trainees in non-vital areas to teach them how to fight through pain! Gotta learn!
Or...Buy some simunition and do force on force. That’s how I learned to “fight” for real. It wasn’t by almost negligently killing my military classmates with live rounds. Even in a live fire shoot house you train to stay out of each other’s way. Jeesh.
The video was dumb. The explanation video was dumb. The instructors are dumb. The fatality that eventually happens will be dumb.
I know I’m just a guy on the internet, but the LEAST I’d say to their face is that they’re dumb.
Nonsensical. Irresponsible. Negligent.
Maybe they can devise a course of fire where the trainees are exposed to someone shooting back at them with live rounds...or maybe even shoot trainees in non-vital areas to teach them how to fight through pain! Gotta learn!
Or...Buy some simunition and do force on force. That’s how I learned to “fight” for real. It wasn’t by almost negligently killing my military classmates with live rounds. Even in a live fire shoot house you train to stay out of each other’s way. Jeesh.
Zerodefect
member
All they had to do was put a couple steel movers on the range and then tape "no shoot" targets to them.
If they really want to get down to this, switch to paintball guns. There's more than a few schools with access to such. And you can shoot each other until your hearts content.
I don't need to experience bullets passing by my ear from behind. That's the dumbest excuse for a firearms instructor.......
If they really want to get down to this, switch to paintball guns. There's more than a few schools with access to such. And you can shoot each other until your hearts content.
I don't need to experience bullets passing by my ear from behind. That's the dumbest excuse for a firearms instructor.......
Are these instructors for real? Train like you fight? How many self defense scenarios like this could exist in any year? Looks like good training for a bunch of gang bangers running around trying not to hit little kids on the street corner maybe…
Like doctors, nurses, and hospitals?
I really would not want anyone in front of my muzzle, you know accidents happen. I can say, that I have had accidental discharges, luckily nothing in front except a berm or a target, with a pistol, and during NRA Highpower rapid fire, Midrange, and Smallbore prone. The pistol was a M1911 and I confused the sequence of slide release and trigger pull. I was told that to protect the trigger sear on a target M1911, pull the trigger, drop the slide, release the trigger. Seems pretty straight forward. Well, what do you know, got the sequence out of order. It sort of went, release slide, pull the trigger, release the trigger. Opps! Since I was shooting at my gong targets, I was the only who got scared.
In NRA highpower, when I set the trigger of my match gun gun below a pound and half, during the rapid fire sequence, cramming the bolt down, I managed to trip off the trigger, partially because I had a finger sticking out, and partially because I could not feel the trigger. I had to increase the trigger pull weight for XTC shooting. One bud of mine, he regularly shot rounds over the berm during standing slow fire. He had his finger in the trigger guard, and as he was adjusting the rifle to the shoulder, he would trip the trigger.
Midrange, cramming the bolt down, I had the third finger pinched between the trigger and trigger guard. Pulling the finger out caused a discharge. My scorer noticed it and laughed loudly, which was very humiliating, and I got a big fat zero for that shot. Smallbore prone, I have a set trigger, can't weigh it without tripping it, could be an ounce, ounces, I have managed to bump that off during Smallbore prone matches. That may be why you don't see those things anymore. When it works, and I can feel it, I love it.
I have also had a BSA MKIV trigger discharge when closing the block. The set screw that maintains trigger sear engagement managed to back out, reducing the sear engagement as the screw dislodged, and the trigger finally tripped when the breech block was closed smartly. The round hit the dirt in front of the target, which meant nothing in terms of score. If you hit your target, then it counts, if it is not in the sighting bull. Luckily I have a collection of Allen head wrenches in my shooting stool, (for those occasions when parts fall off your match rifle!) and was able to adjust the sear engagement and trigger pull weight and finish my string. Used up a lot of my time though.
The set screws are recessed in front of the trigger guard. Externally adjustable, which is nice.
I brought Smallbore prone into this, because I had talked to a very senior shooter. If my memory was right, he used to shoot in smallbore competition in Germany. And competitors would go down range, stay in their lane, change targets, while the competitors on either side were still finishing their string. I think that was nuts. If everything is just perfect, no one gets shot. However, perfection is hard to obtain, and even harder to maintain. No matter how well intended, if someone is in front of a loaded muzzle, even with trained shooters, a little perturbation in the perfection of the universe and someone can be hurt.
In NRA highpower, when I set the trigger of my match gun gun below a pound and half, during the rapid fire sequence, cramming the bolt down, I managed to trip off the trigger, partially because I had a finger sticking out, and partially because I could not feel the trigger. I had to increase the trigger pull weight for XTC shooting. One bud of mine, he regularly shot rounds over the berm during standing slow fire. He had his finger in the trigger guard, and as he was adjusting the rifle to the shoulder, he would trip the trigger.
Midrange, cramming the bolt down, I had the third finger pinched between the trigger and trigger guard. Pulling the finger out caused a discharge. My scorer noticed it and laughed loudly, which was very humiliating, and I got a big fat zero for that shot. Smallbore prone, I have a set trigger, can't weigh it without tripping it, could be an ounce, ounces, I have managed to bump that off during Smallbore prone matches. That may be why you don't see those things anymore. When it works, and I can feel it, I love it.
I have also had a BSA MKIV trigger discharge when closing the block. The set screw that maintains trigger sear engagement managed to back out, reducing the sear engagement as the screw dislodged, and the trigger finally tripped when the breech block was closed smartly. The round hit the dirt in front of the target, which meant nothing in terms of score. If you hit your target, then it counts, if it is not in the sighting bull. Luckily I have a collection of Allen head wrenches in my shooting stool, (for those occasions when parts fall off your match rifle!) and was able to adjust the sear engagement and trigger pull weight and finish my string. Used up a lot of my time though.
The set screws are recessed in front of the trigger guard. Externally adjustable, which is nice.
I brought Smallbore prone into this, because I had talked to a very senior shooter. If my memory was right, he used to shoot in smallbore competition in Germany. And competitors would go down range, stay in their lane, change targets, while the competitors on either side were still finishing their string. I think that was nuts. If everything is just perfect, no one gets shot. However, perfection is hard to obtain, and even harder to maintain. No matter how well intended, if someone is in front of a loaded muzzle, even with trained shooters, a little perturbation in the perfection of the universe and someone can be hurt.
glc24
Member
That idiotic Rockwell Tactical is in eastern Pa. Good! Stay over there, and stay away from the west side of my state.
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