IYO, what calibers should have come out on top?

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hardheart

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Because of marketing, timing, contractual agreement, financial support, advertising, legislation, etc, some cartridges have done much better than others, and it probably hasn't always been the ones with the best ballistic performance. Do you think the current most popular choices in handgun and long arm ammunition are the 'right' ones?

Say, if firearm manufacturers did not have a limitation based on production capability or trade dress, the calibers magically appeared at roughly the same times, and shooters somehow had equal access to them, what do you think would be the calibers being argued for service sidearms, hunting rounds, military standard issue, etc?

Would there be much discussion of different diameters, different velocities, different action lengths, or would there be some commonality in brass, caliber measurement, SD, BC, etc? Instead of 9x19, 40 S&W, 45ACP, would we be talking about Dillon, 10mm, and Rowland? Would the 38 SPL and 357 both be on the market, or would SAAMI just expand pressure ranges and gun manufacturers build for one brass length? Would the military use the same bullet in 6.8 and 270 brass, or blackout and 308, or the same brass with different neck sizes? Would the 5.7, Tok, TCM, etc be the talk of the town for sidearm and PDW? Should the 223 be mentioned when we have the 243, is the right -06, 08, 6/7mm- getting the highest numbers rolled and sold?

IOW, if things are not optimal now on the best seller lists, which calibers do you think provide the best ballistics, feeding, reloading, recoil energy, mag capacity, ergos for semis, bolt action, etc - but just fell to the wayside due to concerns outside of the performance of the round and more to do with who was trying to sell it and what they were up against from a business and political standpoint. Who do you think should have come out on ballistic twins, or ballistic cousins, or in wildcatting, or reinventing the wheel?

Please don't view this strictly as a 'your favorite caliber' question, as I think at least some of you select favorites based at least partially on availability and price. I'd like to know which rounds you'd rather put on you lists because they were common enough to have the same availability and price as those you buy/load now. If you like things just fine as they are, please mention that as well.
 
For autopistols I think the 9x23 winchester offers a lot, and would have been a great cartridge to have taken off.
 
The 10mm IMO is the ultimate handgun round. Just because the FBI agents of the 80's had girly wrist was no reason to have relegated the 10mm to near obscurity and to add insult to injury by downloading what little ammo you can find on the shelf to .40S&W is just a travesty. Who wouldn't want a carry gun that can take on a Grizzly and not to mention you can have 16rds instead of 6 (like similarly power handguns) of it at the ready. the 9x25 Dillion is also an exceptional round that gets no love. I'd take either of those over a .45acp or 9mm luger any day.
 
This is a great topic and hope it gets more thought. I find it especially interesting now. While I have shot guns since I could walk and have never lived in a house without them, I have only recently found interest, or discovered, the world of calibers and cartridges. Im 35 and if you would have asked me five years ago I would have guessed there were 10% of how many calibers there actually are. In my house the 30-30 and 30-06 shot deer and the 9mm protected the house. I had a .410 and a .22. There were several shotguns. My curiosity has gotten the best of me. I hunted white tail this weekend with a Winchester M70 in 6.5x55.

To the OP, I think that, generally speaking, the best have risen to the top. You have to figure in more than just the statistical date. You also have to figure in accuracy, recoil, and general usefulness. I believe the 30-06 is the most popular hunting round in the US. While there are rounds that do it just as well, I dont know if there is one that does it better without sacrifice. Same can be said with the 9mm, 22lr, and 12 gauge.

Interesting topic.
 
I disagree. I think most popular rounds are popular because the military adopted them. Market forces keep them that way. There are some obvious exceptions to that of course like 30.30. But all the popular calibers in the last hundreds years or so are military.
To the OP, I think that, generally speaking, the best have risen to the top. You have to figure in more than just the statistical date. You also have to figure in accuracy, recoil, and general usefulness. I believe the 30-06 is the most popular hunting round in the US. While there are rounds that do it just as well, I dont know if there is one that does it better without sacrifice. Same can be said with the 9mm, 22lr, and 12 gauge.
 
I'm pretty OK with what is currently popular remaining popular but I wish a couple had made it up there with them:

9X23 Loves me that flat shooting, single stack, 1911 platformed round.

404 Jeffery It gave me outstanding performance with manageable recoil & report.

10 Gauge Where d'ya go?
 
I think most calibers on the market today are a result of bribes, under the table money, favors, special interests, lobbyists, and dirty deals.

The fact that many of the listed cartridges in the thread are great really shows their developers had their money/ducks in a row.
 
Rifle wise, the .260 and 6mm Remington outperform a lot of more popular caibers without too much recoil. The 28ga shotgun also gets left behind, even though it is much more effective than a .410 in a gun weighing not much more.
 
As Vern noted, there is huge overlap between the capabilities of cartridges. My favorite all-around rifle cartridge is the 7x57, which is exceptionally nicely balanced. When run at modern pressures, it really shines. But, not a lot of people agree with me.

Rifles:
22LR
Any one of the following: 223, 5.56, 222 Mag, 22 Hornet
Any one of the following: 257 Roberts, 260, 243, 6mm, 6.5x55
30-30
Any one of the following: 30-06, 308, 280, 270, 7x57, 8x57, 7.62x54R
375 Ruger

Handguns:
22LR
380
38 Spl
Any one of the following: 41 Mag, 44 Mag, 45 LC
45 ACP

There are a few cartridges that I've never learned to love: 22 Mag, 7mm Mag. In handguns, 9x19 is obviously widely popular. I just don't have the love for it that most people do. If I could have only one handgun for everything, that might be the one, though.
 
One of my vectors in deciding to buy a gun is ammunition availability, and usually this means a miitary cartridge.

However, I long thought that something in a .32 magnum in either a revolver or a pistol would have been nice if it were properly designed for the dimensions and pressures of such a cartridge.

For a long time I envisioned a 5-shot compact revolver in a .32 magnum (for example, the .32 H&R Magnum) for carry purposes, but that caliber seems to have fallen by the wayside. It would help if such a revolver had the flat-sided cylinder of the Chiappa Rhino to minimize the extra bulk of fluted cylinders.

So I settle for 9s and .38 +Ps for summer carry.

Oh, well. Life is full of compromises. Too bad the .32 H&R didn't take off.

Terry, 230RN
 
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I disagree. I think most popular rounds are popular because the military adopted them. Market forces keep them that way. There are some obvious exceptions to that of course like 30.30. But all the popular calibers in the last hundreds years or so are military.
I agree that military usage is a major factor. I didnt address exactly why in my post so not sure what you are disagreeing with.


To another point, there is so much overlap today that actually putting your fingere on what would be the universal best is nearly impossible. But its hard to argue against the most popular rounds. They are there for a reason.
 
if the 9x25 dillon was as common and costs what .45 acp does I think it would topple the big 3 (9mm, .40 s&w, and .45).
 
The problem, besides military contracts, for ammo calibers is the guns they were made for. Heat treating receivers was uncommon practice till about the fifties as I understand it. In the 30s they did spot heat treatments. Now why is this important.

Well Dick Casull (yes the "Casull") took a 1904 (or 1905) Colt Single Action revolver and switched out the barrel and milled his own cylinder in .44 caliber. He then performed a double heat treatment. And would later make his own .44 magnum-esque type ammo out of .38-40 brass (as I believe the story goes). With all that said he had 250 grain LRN going 1500+fps. That same gun made back in the fifties(still around) was fired and chronoed recently for a magazine where they got similar velocities (Ammunition Reloader I believe). So what does this tell us. Had gun manufacturers engaged heat treatments more actively, stronger and stronger ammunition types could have been regularly used.

Essentially the .38/44 could still be around if Model 10s had been heat treated appropriately, and could have been called Model 100s and fired .38/44 pushing a 158 grain pill at 1000 fps out of a 4 inch barrel (it was supposed to get 1150
out of a 6" barrel if I remember correct). Yes you would still have Model 13s in .357 magnum but heat treatment could have been applied to those frames as well and made in .38/44.

But heat treatments add an additional cost which hurts profit margins and so gun companies aren't likely to get on board.

All mind you that gun ownership has only really exploded in the last ten to twenty years. Before that the usual suspects were plenty for the average gun owner.
 
.41 Magnum
Overlooked unfairly. Does anything the 0.429 Magnum does, with about 20% less recoil and a flatter trajectory wuth comparable loads.

I own three of them. Yes, I'm nuts. And your point is??? :D
 
I've mentioned it in other threads, but I'm surprised noone has made a pistol cartridge that's ninier than a nine, and that the cartridge that's forty-fivier than the forty-five hasn't been adopted more. I think it'd be interesting to see the .50 GI get more backing, as well as something that comes in the form of a straight-walled, rimless 7-8mm pistol cartridge (emphasis on more ammunition in the same magazine size).

I also think that the small caliber tapered cartridges, like 5.7 or 7.62 tok should get more love.

For shotguns, it's not so much a cartridge, but #1 buckshot 12-gauge loads are fairly rare. I have to go online or make my own. Whereas 00-buck and #4 buck are fairly common.
 
The 280 Remington aka 7mm Remington Express should have been an incredibly popular round sitting right between the 270 and the 30-06. Yes, it does everything those two do, but those two each do everything the other does as well.

At the time it was said that because they were so similar there was no room for a third, yet now the 308, 270, and 30-06 all exist together sharing the same market segment (and few buyers of the 308 imho are really choosing it because of the short action feature)

Similarly, I think the 8mm Remington Magnum should have been a huge success. However as it takes a true magnum action not just a long action a lot of gun makers were reluctant to offer it. Also the 338 winmag had a big head start. Finally Remington themselves didn't offer good enough variety and quality of factory ammo initially.

To finish off my trifecta of 'Remington Metrics' I'm call up the 5mm Remington Rimfire. It should be getting all the love that the 22 WMR and the 17 HMR are getting...especially the love the 17 HMR is getting.
 
Third. I love the .257 Roberts.

The cartridges that remain popular and ones that fall into obscurity are separated more by marketing than by any practicable differences. Get some giant government contracts (45-70, .30-06, .45ACP, .40S&W) or become the NATO standard (.223Rem/5.56, 9mm Luger), and a round's future is assured. Hit a sweet spot at just the right time (7mm Rem Mag, .270 Win), and you get a similar result.

The list of very good cartridges that never caught on or got replaced by something only incrementally better (if even that) is populated mostly with cartridges that either suffered total marketing screw-ups on their own or got ridden out of town by cartridges that benefitted from total marketing coups.
 
So far on this thread arguments have been made for

.280 Remington-Does everything the .270 and 30-06 do, and some better
.41 mag- does the work of the .44 with less recoil
9x25 dillon
5.7 and 7.62Tok
.257 Roberts
8mm Rem Mag (although poster then spoke of exactly why it shouldnt be)
32mag (although that poster might want to check out the 327 federal. It accomplishes a lot of what poster was asking for


Did I miss any?
 
You missed the 9x23Winchester.

A true .357Mag. (Win. “White Box” ammo = 124gr bullet at 1450fps) in a semi-auto without the battering recoil.
 
Agalaska said,

32mag (although that poster might want to check out the 327 federal. It accomplishes a lot of what poster was asking for

That would be me, and the H&R was just an example for the original post. We'll see what develops with the .327. If it generates a small SD revolver such as I described, it would be great.
 
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