IYO, what calibers should have come out on top?

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I still think there is a viable niche and market for .257 Roberts, but apparently I am very much in the minority.

I think when people stop deluding themselves then the quarter-bore will have a VERY viable niche. Specifically I'd expect an 'inversion' of our current system. You'll still have the vast majority of people shooting 'universals' like the 270, 308, and 30-06, but rather than having 'magnums' as the second most common you'd have the 'milds' as the second most common.

However, in the quarter bore family (250 Savage, 257 Roberts, 25-06, 25 WSSM) Why does the 257 Roberts shine more than the other 4?
 
Universally, and I don't shoot ANY of them currently - the essential and most deserved calibers (And they are not all calibers actually), as you asked IYO, are:

22 rimfire
9 mm
30 .06
12 gauge

That being said I am content to let the market sort out the "popularity" of the myriad available. Though venerable and deserving of historic praise, to me the .30-30 is archaic. As is, sadly, the .257 Roberts. There are many other round in that category. And now with the onset of designer over-bore cartridges the field gets more dizzying.

I, myself, am a middle caliber rifle man and prefer pistol rounds slightly more enthusiastic than the 9mm. The 12 gauge will forever and always be the top shotgun choice. But people who disagree with me are not wrong. They just disagree with me.

Your OP inquires as to whether marketing and circumstance have any effect on the "success" of a round. I believe this is true but really can not back it up with more than my hunch.

Interesting topic. Thanks!
 
8mm Rem Mag (although poster then spoke of exactly why it shouldnt be)

Let me try again. I thought I explained why it wasn't

#1 338 Winmag had too big of a lead due to being around longer (Timing mistake)
#2 Remington Co didn't do enough to get it started right (marketing mistake)
#3 Takes a true magnum action (extremely minor rifle manufacturing complication)

None of those take away from the greatness of the cartridge.

Can't decide if you want the hitting power of the 338 Winmag vs the long range wonder of the 300 Winmag? Well with the 8mm Remington Mag you get BOTH. Not just 'split the difference' you get BOTH.

Even though the projectile is a little big bigger than the 300 Winmag, the case is bigger meaning more powder, meaning more power. Shooting bullets of similar sectional density even thought the 8mm versions are heavier the speeds are very similar giving you the same long range ability.

While not as wide as the 338, the 8mm is wider than the 30, combine with its slightly higher energy (again due to a larger case) it hits as hard as a 338 winmag.

Now, in the USA the 300 winmag, 338 winmag, and 8mm Remmag get SAAMI pressure caps of 6400, 6500, and 6500. A load that gives identical performance in a bigger case is doing it at lower pressures. In this case as you have a bigger case (full length improved 375 H&H case) at equal pressure you are doing more.

HOWEVER, the 8mm Rem Mag case is seen by most to be exceptionally strong and improved from it's parent in terms of shoulder angle, taper, etc in the best ways to the degree that the European version of SAAMI keeps the 300 winmag and 338 winmag at the same levels as their American counterparts but allows the 8mm Rem Mag to be produced at pressure levels of 6700 PSI. American Hand-loaders have uncovered the great strength of the 8mm Remington Magnum case as well and make some absolutely potent rounds, something that people reloading for the Winmag family can't do to the same extent due to needed to stay a bit lower in pressure.


Of course there is a bit of a 'chicken and egg' thing going on with the 8mm Remington Magnum. Most 8mm projectiles are designed with the 8mm Mauser in mind and can't always hold up to the 8mm Remmag velocities. Limited bullet selection turns many handloaders off which in turn keeps bullet makers from seeing it profitable to offer a wider 'fast 8' line-up.




Side Note. the 300 Winmag's case dimensions are less than ideal because right after the 338 winmag came out everyone wild-catted it to 300-338 winmag and then Norma formalized it with the 308 Norma Mag, so when Winchester came out with the same exact thing they had to slightly alter the dimensions just enough to be legally not the same exact thing...even though for all practical purposes it really was the same exact thing.

Side Note 2. Current SAAMI pressures for 300 winmag, 338 winmag and 8mm Remmag are 6400, 6500, and 6500. The 8mm Remmag comes from the full length 375 H&H case improved and necked down. The 375 H&H has a SAAMI pressure of 6200. It appears that in Remington's initial 8mm Remmag offerings they kept the pressures to the 6200 limit. Hence the cartridge initially didn't show it's true colors.
 
Agalaska said,



That would be me, and the H&R was just an example for the original post. We'll see what develops with the .327. If it generates a small SD revolver such as I described, it would be great.

Interesting concept. In theory you could have a 5 shot 327 revolver that was as much smaller as a traditional 5 shot 38 special revolver, as the 5 shot 38 special is from the midsized 6 round revolvers.

The question this brings up, however, is that you still need a 2 or possibly 3 inch barrel, and the grip and trigger needs to be the same size to match average hands, so does making the bits between those two limiting factors slightly smaller really give enough of a difference?

The other way is to create a new 38 cal rimmed cartridge with dimensions that allow it to be fired in a 38 special and 357 magnum revolver, but shortened to 9x19mm length and using 9x19mm level loads. This would allow for a shorter cylinder and frame on a CCW revolver while delivering a potent round and removing the need for moonclips or poking out cartridges from the front like if we had a 9x19mm revolver with a cylinder and frame shortened to match the x19's OAL.
 
However, in the quarter bore family (250 Savage, 257 Roberts, 25-06, 25 WSSM) Why does the 257 Roberts shine more than the other 4?

Other 4? How about other 5 - you left out the .257 Weatherby Magnum, the king of the quarter calibers. It launches a 75gr. pill at over 3900fps. Bad medicine for varmints!
 
The .243 and the 25-06 really dealt the .257 Roberts a rough hand... I think the Bob is the finest deer-black bear-elk round of the three. Guys who have a Roberts won't give 'em up, making them difficult (and expensive) to find on the used market.
 
I wish 10 ga, 16 ga, and 28 ga had won out over 12,20, and .410, mainly just due to shell cost of the less popular gauges, but such is life.
 
Well only saw 9X19 mentioned once. By all accounts it is the most popular pistol round of all time. For other rounds I would think that .45GAP would be a winner, has the physical size for smaller guns and the same performance as .45ACP.
The 5.7X28 would also be much more popular if the ammo was priced right.
So, my list would be 5.7X28, 9X19, and .45GAP.
 
10mm

The 10mm caliber has the widest range of ammo to chose from IMHO.

It comes in several flavors from; simple weekend plunking paper punching too seriously-dangerous animal hunting.....though you may not find it all on your LGS shelves, you can either order it online or, reload it yourself.
 
The 22-243 has been a fine wildcat for 40+ years. It is really a shame that it has not been made into a SAAMI cartridge.
 
The .22LR, .223REM, and .308WIN are probably the most popular rifle rounds. I don't think that the .308 is the best battle rifle round, though. We had the .30-06 before that, which was great. In addition, you have similarly-performing rounds as far as power with better trajectories.

For the record, does anyone know why NATO developed the .308 as a standardized round? Could the various countries just not agree on which of theirs to use? LOL
 
For the record, does anyone know why NATO developed the .308 as a standardized round? Could the various countries just not agree on which of theirs to use? LOL
NATO did not develop the .308. The United States developed the .308.

The development of Ball Powder by Winchester earlier made it possible to get similar performance to the M2 .30 Cal cartridge in a case a half inch shorter. And when you're buying cartridges by the billion, that half inch means big money.

Once the cartridge was developed and selected as our standard military cartridge, other allied nations got on board. The alliance, of course was the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) and the members agreed it made sense for all of them to use the same cartridge -- hence 7.62X51 NATO.

When we adopted the M16, the cartridge for that rifle, the .223 Remington, was adopted by NATO as the 5.56X45 NATO.
 
I think the 25/26 caliber bullets should be more popular than they are, the 6.5x55 should be as popular here if not more than in Europe due to how great of a caliber it is but since our military went with 30 caliber, the 6.5s never really took in the mainstream. I think if it was as available as 243 or 308, the 260 would likely replace both for a lot of people in my opinion.
 
I think if it was as available as 243 or 308, the 260 would likely replace both for a lot of people in my opinion.
For the .260 to be as available as 243 or 308, people would have to buy it. If people were buying it at the same rate as they buy .243 or .308, it would be popular.

It's a circular argument.
 
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